.25-.308? What the heck!

Because .260Rem. is pretty much better in every way (and .243Win. takes care of the rest). Not much of a gap between the 6mm (actually closer to 6.2mm) and 6.5mm.

I tried one out several years ago (25 Souper)...it is a fine round, but not enough of an improvement over the 257 Roberts to catch on (at least thats what I blame it on)

It's a wildcat called the 25 Souper, but the 257 Roberts is a bit better anyway.



NCsmitty

I think he is joking (though I am not positive!) : )

.243 is popular as a varmint round. .308 is popular as a general purpose hunting round. .260 ammo is available if you look for it. 7mm-08 is under-rated. It would be hard to make a case for the .25-08 in the market, it's so full already. The .257 Roberts is a great round, but doesn't fit in an American "short action" (.308).

That said, I've thought about putting together a .25-08 for a light hunting rifle. If there were a high-BC approx 120-130gr bullet available, it could rival or beat .260 ballistics for long-range.

Yep...back when I played around with the 25 Souper, the Remington 122 grain bullet was still available. (there may be better .257 bullets these days, I haven't messed with any .25's in a while)

Berger has a 115 with 0.466 BC - I'd like to see one around 0.6

I can't remember what the BC was on the 122, probably have it in some old notes at home...pretty sure it was .5 or better though.

WYcoyote said:

Why in the world is this not a factory caliber?
It sure seems to me like the .25-.308 would really fill the gap between a .243 and the .260.

Click to expand...

Less than 1/2 of a millimeter in that "gap". Plus in addition to competition above (260) and below (243), a 25-08 would have to face competition from established .25 cartridges such as the 250 Savage, 257 Roberts and 25-06.

This area is already too crowded. Not really room for one more.

I'll keep my .257 Roberts, thanks. It's a nice, light little short action Remington M722.

IT'S NOT NEEDED. WE HAVE TOO MANY CALIBERS AS IT IS! IT'S BEEN DONE BEFORE!

JMHO...

Considering the bewildering array of rifle cartridges available today, I can't really imagine how anyone would ever conclude we have a "gap" left large enough to wiggle a fine hair through.

Just from Midway's site, here's their list of available cartridge brass:

17 Remington Fireball
17 Remington
20 Tactical
204 Ruger
5.6x33 Rimmed Rook
22 Hornet
218 Bee
221 Fireball
222 Remington
222 Rimmed
223 Remington
222 Remington Magnum
220 Russian
219 Zipper
225 Winchester
224 Weatherby Magnum
22-250 Remington
223 Winchester Super Short Magnum
220 Swift
5.6x52mm Rimmed (22 Savage High-Power)
6x45mm (6mm-223 Remington)
6mm PPC
6mm BR (Bench Rest)
6mm XC
243 Winchester
243 Winchester Super Short Magnum
240 Weatherby Magnum
6mm Remington
6mm-06 Springfield
6.17 Spitfire
240 Hawk
244 H&H Magnum
240 H&H Magnum
240 Gibbs
25-20 Single Shot
256 Winchester Magnum
25-21 Stevens
25-25 Stevens
25-36 Marlin
25-35 WCF
25 Remington
250 Savage
257 Roberts
25-06 Remington
25 Gibbs
25 Winchester Super Short Magnum
257 Weatherby Magnum
6.53 Scramjet
257 STW
6.5x53 Rimmed
6.5 Grendel
6.5mm Japanese
6.5mm Carcano
6.5x54mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer
6.5 Creedmoor
6.5x47mm Lapua
260 Remington
6.5x55mm Swedish Mauser
6.5mm-257 Roberts
6.5x58mm Rimmed Sauer
256 Newton
6.5mm-284 Winchester (Norma)
6.71 Phantom
6.5mm-06 A-Square
6.5mm Remington Magnum
264 Hawk
6.5mm Gibbs
264 Winchester Magnum
6.5mm STW
6.5mm-300 Weatherby Magnum
6.8mm Remington SPC
270 Winchester
270 Winchester Short Magnum
270 Gibbs
270 Ackley Magnum
270 Weatherby Magnum
270 STW
7x33mm Sako
7mm TCU
7-30 Waters
7mm-08 Remington
7x57mm Rimmed
7x72 Rimmed
7x57mm Mauser (7mm Mauser)
7mm Shooting Times Easterner
7x64mm Brenneke
280 Remington
280 Remington Ackley Improved 40-Degree Shoulder
7mm Gibbs
275 H&H Magnum
7x61mm Sharpe & Hart (7x61mm Super)
7.21 Tomahawk
7mm Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum
7mm Winchester Short Magnum
7mm Remington Magnum
7mm Weatherby Magnum
7mm STW
7mm-300 Weatherby Magnum
7.21 Firebird
7mm Remington Ultra Magnum
7mm Dakota
28-30 Stevens
300 Rook
300 Sherwood
307 Winchester
30 M1 Carbine
30-30 Winchester
30 Remington
303 Savage
308 Marlin Express
300 Savage
30 TC
308 Winchester
7.62x53mm Rimmed
7.62x54mm Rimmed Russian
7.5x55mm Schmidt-Rubin (Swiss)
309 JDJ
30-06 Springfield
30 Gibbs
7.82 Patriot
300 Ruger Compact Magnum
300 Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum
300 Winchester Short Magnum
30-338 Winchester Magnum
308 Norma Magnum
300 H&H Magnum
30 Newton
300 ICL Grizzly
300 Winchester Magnum
300 Weatherby Magnum
300 Dakota
300 Remington Ultra Magnum
7.82 Warbird
30 Super Flanged
30-378 Weatherby Magnum
300 Pegasus
300 Norma Magnum
7.62x39mm Russian
32-20 WCF
303 British
7.7x58mm (Japanese)
7.65mm Argentine Mauser
310 Cadet
8x48mm Rimmed Sauer
8.15x46mm Rimmed (318 Diameter)
8x58mm Rimmed Sauer (318 Diameter)
8x58mm Rimmed
32 Winchester Self-Loading
32-40 WCF
32 Remington
32 Winchester Special
32 Ideal
8x56mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer
8x57mm Mauser (8mm Mauser)
8x57mm JRS Rimmed Mauser
8x60mm Rimmed S Mauser
8mm-06 Springfield
8x64mm Brenneke
320 Hawk
325 Winchester Short Magnum (WSM)
8mm Remington Magnum
8x56mm Rimmed Hungarian Mannlicher
318 Westley Richards
333 Flanged Nitro Express
333 Jeffery Rimless
338 Marlin Express
338 Federal
33 WCF
340 Gibbs
338-06 JDJ
338-06 A-Square
338 Hawk
338 Scovill
8.59 Galaxy
338 Ruger Compact Magnum
338 Winchester Magnum
338 Norma Magnum
338-404 Express
340 Weatherby Magnum
330 Dakota
338 Remington Ultra Magnum
8.59 Titan
338 Lapua Magnum
338-378 Weatherby Magnum
338 Excalibur
35 Winchester
35 Winchester Self-Loading
351 Winchester Self-Loading
9x57mm Mauser (9mm Mauser)
360 Nitro Express
400-350 Nitro Express (350 Rigby)
350 Rigby
356 Winchester
358 Winchester
358 JDJ
35 Gibbs
35 Whelen
350 Remington Magnum
358 Hawk
358 Scovill
358 Norma Magnum
35 Newton
358 Shooting Times Alaskan
350 G&H Magnum
358 Yukon
9.3x57mm Mauser
9.3x62mm Mauser
9.3x82mm Rimmed
9.3x74mm Rimmed
9.3 Sisk, 9.3 Barnes-Sisk
366 DGW
400-360
400-375 Nitro Express
375 Winchester
9.5x47mm Rimmed
38-56 WCF
9.5x56mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer (375 Nitro Express Rimless) (9.5mm Mannlicher-Sch
375 Hawk-Scovill
375 ICL Kodiak
375 H&H Magnum
375 H&H Magnum Ackley Improved
375 Flanged (Rimmed)
375 Ruger
375 Weatherby Magnum
375 JRS Magnum
375 Dakota
375 Remington Ultra Magnum
378 Weatherby Magnum
376 Steyr
38-55 WCF
38-72 WCF
375 Rimless
400 Nitro Express
38-40 WCF
40-60 Marlin
40-70 Sharps
10.15x61mm Jarmann
40-90 Sharps
400 Whelen Basic
400 H&H Magnum
450-400 Nitro Express
405 Basic
401 Winchester Self-Loading
40-65 WCF
40-72 WCF
40-82 WCF
408 Chey-Tac
400 A-Square (400 Pondoro)
411 Hawk Basic
405 Winchester
416 Ruger
416 Taylor
10.57 Meteor
416 Hoffman
416 Weatherby Magnum
416 Rigby
425 Fossdal
404 Jeffery
10.75x65mm Rimmed
10.75x68mm Mauser
44-40 WCF
444 Marlin
425 Express
43 Mauser/Spanish/Egyptian (11x60mm Rimmed Mauser, 11.15x60mm Rimmed Mauser)
11.2x72mm Schuler
43 Werndl
460 Rowland
451 Detonics
500-450
45-100 WCF
45-110 Sharps
45-120 Sharps
45 Basic
450 Bushmaster
45-75 Winchester
577-450 Martini Henry
43 Beaumont
45-90 WCF
458 Socom
45-70 Government
450 Marlin
458 Winchester Magnum
458 Lott
450 Alaskan
450 Watts Magnum
450 Assegai
450 Dakota
460 Short A-Square
450 Number 2 Nitro Express 3-1/2"
450 Magnum Express
450 Nitro Express
460 Weatherby Magnum
465 H&H Magnum
500-465 Nitro Express
461 Gibbs
470 Capstick
470 Mbogo
476 Nitro Express
475 Nitro Express
470 Nitro Express
475 Number 2 Nitro Express
50 Beowulf
577-500 Nitro Express
Belted Magnum Basic
505 Gibbs Magnum
50 Alaskan
50-90 Sharps
500 Nitro Express
500 A-Square Magnum
500 Jeffery
495 A-Square
50 BMG
56-50 Spencer
50-110 Winchester
50-70 Government
50-95 Winchester
12.7x44mm Rimmed Danish
577 Snyder
585 Nyati
577 Nitro Express
577 Tyrannosaur
600 Nitro Express

Whew! That's 322 cartridges spanning just forty-three hundredths of an inch.

And you know what's NUTS? I can think of a few that AREN'T there! (Though, to be honest, there are a LOT there I've never heard of.)

Personally, I think there's too large a gap between .50 BMG and 20 mm, with only 5-10 entries up in that range.

And you know what's NUTS? I can think of a few that AREN'T there!

Click to expand...

Same here...I have some cartridges that aren't on that list.

fill the gap between a .243 and the .260.

Click to expand...

Oh, yeah, the market is just BEGGING to fill that gap...

Seriously, it seems that production rifles I like are available in .243 and .308, and that's it. Maybe you can get one in 7mm-08 if you order it.

The .260 IS the gap filler. Sadly, it's nearly a wildcat when it comes to real-world availability. For what I want, they could toss out everything else in a short action, and just sell rifles chambered in .260. Alas, that's not the case.

My 7mm BR isn't on that list - it's a great metallic silhouette cartridge, as well as an excellent 250 yard antelope/deer one

an excellent 250 yard antelope/deer

Click to expand...

Damning with faint praise? I mean, what isn't?

For what I want, they could toss out everything else in a short action, and just sell rifles chambered in .260.

Click to expand...

I'll second that.

It was a fairly popular wildcat in the 50s and 60s, in two forms, the .25 Souper, and .257 Durham Jet. IINM, the Souper was the preferred dimensions.

But never caught on enough to be standardized. It, along with the .270-.308, have been "left out" of the very popular .308 family, unlike the .30-06 family, where not much is left out.

What surprises me is that the .260 rem is not more popular than it is, on its own merits, but particularly in light of the fact that there is no ".25-08", AND no ".270-08" on either side of it.

the .30-06 family, where not much is left out.

Click to expand...

Few or no regular production rifles are available in 6mm-06, .280, 8mm-06, .338-06 or even .35 Whelen. Those that are made, aren't easy to find.

^or the 6.5mm-06A-Square...or .375Whelen.

AB, hmmm, you have a point. But the .280 and .35 Whelen DO have factory rifles available, if not many, in addition to .30-06, .270, and .25-06. So that's FIVE.

.308 family has .308, 7mm-08, .338 federal, .243, and .260 Rem. Also FIVE. So it's a tie, and they both leave a lot out, just different ones, when it comes to factory chamberings (however limited they may be).

It's a wildcat called the 25 Souper, but the 257 Roberts is a bit better anyway.

Click to expand...

Too bad the .257 is all but dead these days though.

A .25-08 would probably be too close to the 6.5x55 Swede to be worthwhile anyway.

We are too busy developing .300 SuperLoudenBoomer type catridges that have little if any advantage over catridges we have had over 100 years to worry about something like a .25-08 that would be much more useful.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

And you know what's NUTS? I can think of a few that AREN'T there! (Though, to be honest, there are a LOT there I've never heard of.)

Click to expand...

I don't think that the 35 Remington is there.