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.25-.308? What the heck!

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by WYcoyote, Apr 11, 2010.

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  1. WYcoyote

    WYcoyote Member

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    Why in the world is this not a factory caliber?
    It sure seems to me like the .25-.308 would really fill the gap between a .243 and the .260.
    Plus it's fairly hard to find the .260 and even the 7mm-08.
    So most of your choices in a short action are .243 or .308.
    Come on, ammo and gunmakers, give us some options.
    Would anyone else buy a 25-08?
     
  2. Maverick223

    Maverick223 Member

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    Because .260Rem. is pretty much better in every way (and .243Win. takes care of the rest). Not much of a gap between the 6mm (actually closer to 6.2mm) and 6.5mm.

    :)
     
  3. Ridgerunner665

    Ridgerunner665 Member

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    I tried one out several years ago (25 Souper)...it is a fine round, but not enough of an improvement over the 257 Roberts to catch on (at least thats what I blame it on)
     
  4. NCsmitty

    NCsmitty Member

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    It's a wildcat called the 25 Souper, but the 257 Roberts is a bit better anyway.



    NCsmitty
     
  5. Welding Rod

    Welding Rod Member

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    I think he is joking (though I am not positive!) : )
     
  6. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    .243 is popular as a varmint round. .308 is popular as a general purpose hunting round. .260 ammo is available if you look for it. 7mm-08 is under-rated. It would be hard to make a case for the .25-08 in the market, it's so full already. The .257 Roberts is a great round, but doesn't fit in an American "short action" (.308).

    That said, I've thought about putting together a .25-08 for a light hunting rifle. If there were a high-BC approx 120-130gr bullet available, it could rival or beat .260 ballistics for long-range.
     
  7. Ridgerunner665

    Ridgerunner665 Member

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    Yep...back when I played around with the 25 Souper, the Remington 122 grain bullet was still available. (there may be better .257 bullets these days, I haven't messed with any .25's in a while)
     
  8. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Berger has a 115 with 0.466 BC - I'd like to see one around 0.6
     
  9. Ridgerunner665

    Ridgerunner665 Member

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    I can't remember what the BC was on the 122, probably have it in some old notes at home...pretty sure it was .5 or better though.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2010
  10. natman

    natman Member

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    Less than 1/2 of a millimeter in that "gap". Plus in addition to competition above (260) and below (243), a 25-08 would have to face competition from established .25 cartridges such as the 250 Savage, 257 Roberts and 25-06.

    This area is already too crowded. Not really room for one more.
     
  11. MCgunner

    MCgunner Member

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    I'll keep my .257 Roberts, thanks. It's a nice, light little short action Remington M722.

    IT'S NOT NEEDED. WE HAVE TOO MANY CALIBERS AS IT IS! IT'S BEEN DONE BEFORE!

    JMHO...:D
     
  12. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    Considering the bewildering array of rifle cartridges available today, I can't really imagine how anyone would ever conclude we have a "gap" left large enough to wiggle a fine hair through.

    Just from Midway's site, here's their list of available cartridge brass:

    17 Remington Fireball
    17 Remington
    20 Tactical
    204 Ruger
    5.6x33 Rimmed Rook
    22 Hornet
    218 Bee
    221 Fireball
    222 Remington
    222 Rimmed
    223 Remington
    222 Remington Magnum
    220 Russian
    219 Zipper
    225 Winchester
    224 Weatherby Magnum
    22-250 Remington
    223 Winchester Super Short Magnum
    220 Swift
    5.6x52mm Rimmed (22 Savage High-Power)
    6x45mm (6mm-223 Remington)
    6mm PPC
    6mm BR (Bench Rest)
    6mm XC
    243 Winchester
    243 Winchester Super Short Magnum
    240 Weatherby Magnum
    6mm Remington
    6mm-06 Springfield
    6.17 Spitfire
    240 Hawk
    244 H&H Magnum
    240 H&H Magnum
    240 Gibbs
    25-20 Single Shot
    256 Winchester Magnum
    25-21 Stevens
    25-25 Stevens
    25-36 Marlin
    25-35 WCF
    25 Remington
    250 Savage
    257 Roberts
    25-06 Remington
    25 Gibbs
    25 Winchester Super Short Magnum
    257 Weatherby Magnum
    6.53 Scramjet
    257 STW
    6.5x53 Rimmed
    6.5 Grendel
    6.5mm Japanese
    6.5mm Carcano
    6.5x54mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer
    6.5 Creedmoor
    6.5x47mm Lapua
    260 Remington
    6.5x55mm Swedish Mauser
    6.5mm-257 Roberts
    6.5x58mm Rimmed Sauer
    256 Newton
    6.5mm-284 Winchester (Norma)
    6.71 Phantom
    6.5mm-06 A-Square
    6.5mm Remington Magnum
    264 Hawk
    6.5mm Gibbs
    264 Winchester Magnum
    6.5mm STW
    6.5mm-300 Weatherby Magnum
    6.8mm Remington SPC
    270 Winchester
    270 Winchester Short Magnum
    270 Gibbs
    270 Ackley Magnum
    270 Weatherby Magnum
    270 STW
    7x33mm Sako
    7mm TCU
    7-30 Waters
    7mm-08 Remington
    7x57mm Rimmed
    7x72 Rimmed
    7x57mm Mauser (7mm Mauser)
    7mm Shooting Times Easterner
    7x64mm Brenneke
    280 Remington
    280 Remington Ackley Improved 40-Degree Shoulder
    7mm Gibbs
    275 H&H Magnum
    7x61mm Sharpe & Hart (7x61mm Super)
    7.21 Tomahawk
    7mm Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum
    7mm Winchester Short Magnum
    7mm Remington Magnum
    7mm Weatherby Magnum
    7mm STW
    7mm-300 Weatherby Magnum
    7.21 Firebird
    7mm Remington Ultra Magnum
    7mm Dakota
    28-30 Stevens
    300 Rook
    300 Sherwood
    307 Winchester
    30 M1 Carbine
    30-30 Winchester
    30 Remington
    303 Savage
    308 Marlin Express
    300 Savage
    30 TC
    308 Winchester
    7.62x53mm Rimmed
    7.62x54mm Rimmed Russian
    7.5x55mm Schmidt-Rubin (Swiss)
    309 JDJ
    30-06 Springfield
    30 Gibbs
    7.82 Patriot
    300 Ruger Compact Magnum
    300 Remington Short Action Ultra Magnum
    300 Winchester Short Magnum
    30-338 Winchester Magnum
    308 Norma Magnum
    300 H&H Magnum
    30 Newton
    300 ICL Grizzly
    300 Winchester Magnum
    300 Weatherby Magnum
    300 Dakota
    300 Remington Ultra Magnum
    7.82 Warbird
    30 Super Flanged
    30-378 Weatherby Magnum
    300 Pegasus
    300 Norma Magnum
    7.62x39mm Russian
    32-20 WCF
    303 British
    7.7x58mm (Japanese)
    7.65mm Argentine Mauser
    310 Cadet
    8x48mm Rimmed Sauer
    8.15x46mm Rimmed (318 Diameter)
    8x58mm Rimmed Sauer (318 Diameter)
    8x58mm Rimmed
    32 Winchester Self-Loading
    32-40 WCF
    32 Remington
    32 Winchester Special
    32 Ideal
    8x56mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer
    8x57mm Mauser (8mm Mauser)
    8x57mm JRS Rimmed Mauser
    8x60mm Rimmed S Mauser
    8mm-06 Springfield
    8x64mm Brenneke
    320 Hawk
    325 Winchester Short Magnum (WSM)
    8mm Remington Magnum
    8x56mm Rimmed Hungarian Mannlicher
    318 Westley Richards
    333 Flanged Nitro Express
    333 Jeffery Rimless
    338 Marlin Express
    338 Federal
    33 WCF
    340 Gibbs
    338-06 JDJ
    338-06 A-Square
    338 Hawk
    338 Scovill
    8.59 Galaxy
    338 Ruger Compact Magnum
    338 Winchester Magnum
    338 Norma Magnum
    338-404 Express
    340 Weatherby Magnum
    330 Dakota
    338 Remington Ultra Magnum
    8.59 Titan
    338 Lapua Magnum
    338-378 Weatherby Magnum
    338 Excalibur
    35 Winchester
    35 Winchester Self-Loading
    351 Winchester Self-Loading
    9x57mm Mauser (9mm Mauser)
    360 Nitro Express
    400-350 Nitro Express (350 Rigby)
    350 Rigby
    356 Winchester
    358 Winchester
    358 JDJ
    35 Gibbs
    35 Whelen
    350 Remington Magnum
    358 Hawk
    358 Scovill
    358 Norma Magnum
    35 Newton
    358 Shooting Times Alaskan
    350 G&H Magnum
    358 Yukon
    9.3x57mm Mauser
    9.3x62mm Mauser
    9.3x82mm Rimmed
    9.3x74mm Rimmed
    9.3 Sisk, 9.3 Barnes-Sisk
    366 DGW
    400-360
    400-375 Nitro Express
    375 Winchester
    9.5x47mm Rimmed
    38-56 WCF
    9.5x56mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer (375 Nitro Express Rimless) (9.5mm Mannlicher-Sch
    375 Hawk-Scovill
    375 ICL Kodiak
    375 H&H Magnum
    375 H&H Magnum Ackley Improved
    375 Flanged (Rimmed)
    375 Ruger
    375 Weatherby Magnum
    375 JRS Magnum
    375 Dakota
    375 Remington Ultra Magnum
    378 Weatherby Magnum
    376 Steyr
    38-55 WCF
    38-72 WCF
    375 Rimless
    400 Nitro Express
    38-40 WCF
    40-60 Marlin
    40-70 Sharps
    10.15x61mm Jarmann
    40-90 Sharps
    400 Whelen Basic
    400 H&H Magnum
    450-400 Nitro Express
    405 Basic
    401 Winchester Self-Loading
    40-65 WCF
    40-72 WCF
    40-82 WCF
    408 Chey-Tac
    400 A-Square (400 Pondoro)
    411 Hawk Basic
    405 Winchester
    416 Ruger
    416 Taylor
    10.57 Meteor
    416 Hoffman
    416 Weatherby Magnum
    416 Rigby
    425 Fossdal
    404 Jeffery
    10.75x65mm Rimmed
    10.75x68mm Mauser
    44-40 WCF
    444 Marlin
    425 Express
    43 Mauser/Spanish/Egyptian (11x60mm Rimmed Mauser, 11.15x60mm Rimmed Mauser)
    11.2x72mm Schuler
    43 Werndl
    460 Rowland
    451 Detonics
    500-450
    45-100 WCF
    45-110 Sharps
    45-120 Sharps
    45 Basic
    450 Bushmaster
    45-75 Winchester
    577-450 Martini Henry
    43 Beaumont
    45-90 WCF
    458 Socom
    45-70 Government
    450 Marlin
    458 Winchester Magnum
    458 Lott
    450 Alaskan
    450 Watts Magnum
    450 Assegai
    450 Dakota
    460 Short A-Square
    450 Number 2 Nitro Express 3-1/2"
    450 Magnum Express
    450 Nitro Express
    460 Weatherby Magnum
    465 H&H Magnum
    500-465 Nitro Express
    461 Gibbs
    470 Capstick
    470 Mbogo
    476 Nitro Express
    475 Nitro Express
    470 Nitro Express
    475 Number 2 Nitro Express
    50 Beowulf
    577-500 Nitro Express
    Belted Magnum Basic
    505 Gibbs Magnum
    50 Alaskan
    50-90 Sharps
    500 Nitro Express
    500 A-Square Magnum
    500 Jeffery
    495 A-Square
    50 BMG
    56-50 Spencer
    50-110 Winchester
    50-70 Government
    50-95 Winchester
    12.7x44mm Rimmed Danish
    577 Snyder
    585 Nyati
    577 Nitro Express
    577 Tyrannosaur
    600 Nitro Express

    Whew! That's 322 cartridges spanning just forty-three hundredths of an inch.

    And you know what's NUTS? I can think of a few that AREN'T there! (Though, to be honest, there are a LOT there I've never heard of.)

    Personally, I think there's too large a gap between .50 BMG and 20 mm, with only 5-10 entries up in that range. :evil:
     
  13. Maverick223

    Maverick223 Member

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    Same here...I have some cartridges that aren't on that list. :what:
     
  14. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    Oh, yeah, the market is just BEGGING to fill that gap...:p

    Seriously, it seems that production rifles I like are available in .243 and .308, and that's it. Maybe you can get one in 7mm-08 if you order it.

    The .260 IS the gap filler. Sadly, it's nearly a wildcat when it comes to real-world availability. For what I want, they could toss out everything else in a short action, and just sell rifles chambered in .260. Alas, that's not the case.
     
  15. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

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    My 7mm BR isn't on that list - it's a great metallic silhouette cartridge, as well as an excellent 250 yard antelope/deer one
     
  16. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    Damning with faint praise? I mean, what isn't?
     
  17. Maverick223

    Maverick223 Member

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    I'll second that. boogie.gif
     
  18. Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

    Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow member

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    It was a fairly popular wildcat in the 50s and 60s, in two forms, the .25 Souper, and .257 Durham Jet. IINM, the Souper was the preferred dimensions.

    But never caught on enough to be standardized. It, along with the .270-.308, have been "left out" of the very popular .308 family, unlike the .30-06 family, where not much is left out.

    What surprises me is that the .260 rem is not more popular than it is, on its own merits, but particularly in light of the fact that there is no ".25-08", AND no ".270-08" on either side of it.
     
  19. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    Few or no regular production rifles are available in 6mm-06, .280, 8mm-06, .338-06 or even .35 Whelen. Those that are made, aren't easy to find.
     
  20. Maverick223

    Maverick223 Member

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    ^or the 6.5mm-06A-Square...or .375Whelen.

    :)
     
  21. Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow

    Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow member

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    AB, hmmm, you have a point. But the .280 and .35 Whelen DO have factory rifles available, if not many, in addition to .30-06, .270, and .25-06. So that's FIVE.

    .308 family has .308, 7mm-08, .338 federal, .243, and .260 Rem. Also FIVE. So it's a tie, and they both leave a lot out, just different ones, when it comes to factory chamberings (however limited they may be).
     
  22. Dirtpile

    Dirtpile Member

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    Too bad the .257 is all but dead these days though.

    A .25-08 would probably be too close to the 6.5x55 Swede to be worthwhile anyway.
     
  23. LeonCarr

    LeonCarr Member

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    We are too busy developing .300 SuperLoudenBoomer type catridges that have little if any advantage over catridges we have had over 100 years to worry about something like a .25-08 that would be much more useful.

    Just my .02,
    LeonCarr
     
  24. WYcoyote

    WYcoyote Member

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    Great post expanding on the point I was trying to make.
    I can't believe the .260 isn't chambered in more rifles either. How many in .257 Roberts?
    How can we buy them if they're not there?
    I know about the wildcats, guys.
    Was thinking mainly production guns in short action, the .308 family.
    The 25-08 would be a good alternative in a SA with a 22" barrel as opposed to a LA 25-06 which begs for a 24" or more, IMHO.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2010
  25. Abel

    Abel Member

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    I don't think that the 35 Remington is there.
     
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