What Next for Home Defense?

Shotgun gets my vote,...either the Mossberg or the 870 will get it done. You have a .45,...you have a .22LR long arm,...so fill the remaining holes in your battery first. (.....centerfire Handgun, .22 Rifle,..Shotgun,..centerfire rifle,...store of ammo for each,..and cleaning kits for each.)......then keep adding as you go.

see thread page, scroll down and click "bedside weapon"

I just bought 2 Judges Personal Defense models. After many conversations at guns shops even though the Judge shoots both 410 shot gun and 45 long colt rounds, all say the 410 is the best round for defense. I like the fact that the Judge is a legal sawed off shotgun that fits in your pocket.

The 45 round will probably exit the house right through many walls if you miss the perp. Putting yourself in greater risk from colateral damage if you accidentally kill your sleeping neighbor.

Many people load the Judge with an every other method. One 410 to wound and backed by a 45 to finish the job.

all say the 410 is the best round for defense

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Oh my god, please never consult those individuals for gun advice ever again.

Any round that will penetrate to human vital organs will penetrate drywall like it's a joke. Buckshot will penetrate walls just like a .45 (a 000 buck pellet at 1300fps from a .410 is roughly equivalent to a 9mm - and you just launched three of them at the same time). 9mm goes through walls with aplomb. Unless you're using birdshot in your Judge (PLEASE tell me you are not using birdshot for self-defense), you are fooling yourself if you think you're immune from shooting the neighbor by accident. Also, loading your first round to "wound" sounds like a fantastic way to get yourself killed. Someone is threatening your life, or your family's lives, imminently enough to warrant deadly force and you're going to purposefully use a less effective round to try and stop him?

The Judge is nonsense. You'd be better off using the .45LC than .410 for self defense - and at that point, you could do it from a pistol half the size and weight as the Judge. If you're worried about shooting someone through a wall, you'd be better served by honing your shooting skills to ensure your shot placement, rather than seeking some magical bullet that will penetrate a sternum or skull but be stopped by an inch of cheap drywall.

The Judge is nonsense. You'd be better off using the .45LC than .410 for self defense - and at that point, you could do it from a pistol half the size and weight as the Judge.

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+1

Someone did a homemade ballistics test (Google box o' truth) on the judge and 410 shells. The results were predictable. No 410 round offered decent penetration. A 9mm, 40 or 45 would be much better. A judge with 410 rounds is good for snakes and such, but I wouldn't purchase one solely for home defense.

That being said, I wouldn't want to be shot with one.

I never liked a shotgun for home defense. I have family members throughout the house. I'm good with a shotgun, but a well aimed head shot with a family member between me and the bad guy is just ludicrous to contemplate. A handgun or rifle gives you better shot placement and you don't have to worry about over-penetration with proper ammo.

Just my opinion....

Practice at a range on a still target in a nonthreat atmposhere isn't like real life you're gonna die now shooting. Assuming your house is dark at the time and you're not going to turn on a light to giveaway your position, a shotgun blast to wound someone and knock them down is better than a total miss.

Does anyone here ever target shoot in total darkness?

Nutgun said:

I like the fact that the Judge is a legal sawed off shotgun that fits in your pocket.

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It's not comparable to a long-barreled 12-gauge shotgun, or a sawed-off 12-gauge, or even a 12-gauge pistol.

Nutgun said:

The 45 round will probably exit the house right through many walls if you miss the perp. Putting yourself in greater risk from colateral damage if you accidentally kill your sleeping neighbor.

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Most likely so will buckshot.

Nutgun said:

Many people load the Judge with an every other method. One 410 to wound and backed by a 45 to finish the job.

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Why be such a tease? Kill first, then plink afterward in safety.

Conqueror said:

Buckshot will penetrate walls just like a .45 (a 000 buck pellet at 1300fps from a .410 is roughly equivalent to a 9mm - and you just launched three of them at the same time).

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Well, to be fair #000 buckshot will leave the muzzle of a Judge at only about 850-900 fps, making them less penetrative than .45 Colt or 9mm bullets. However, with the poor sectional density of shot, this also means that they lack penetration into bad guys. Judge owners seem to know this, which is why they often back up their .410 buckshot loads with .45 Colt JHPs, but I think it would be more effective to simply use .45 Colt.

on the overpentration issue with buckshot...people often quote the rough caliber size and speed and then compare it to bullets of similar size...but what they are missing is weight....buckshot loses it's speed and energy WAY faster than a handgun bullet...just shoot both at 100 yard away embankment and see. Though there is a point to be had there as far as drywall walls being concealment...not cover (cover stops bullets...concealment hides you from the guy slingin em)

You already have a .45 in the house so you may as well add a 12ga. IMHO a good pistol (prefferably in .45) and a 12ga. are hard to beat. But you need a HG to...and a guy should never be outgunned by his woman....so I say get a GLOCK 21SF (13+1 rounds of .45acp) and maybe add a TLR1 LED light to it (or light laser if you like em) Instant braggin rights over her 8+1 Ruger! Honestly I have a BAD ARSE riotgun from hell and I still grab my HG 99% of the time for "bump in the night" detail. Easier to manipulate doors and lights ect with a HG and one free hand. You guys could share a box of ammo at the range to...that might somewhat offset shooting costs.

Not using ordinary buck shot. Tactical loads.

Double tap. Slow them down and then.....

A shotgun can be a bit unweidly in tight quarters, but that's its only drawback. It fills most ever other need, including that of potential intimidation factor in the event of a home break-in. Of course, having a reliable handgun that you shoot well close at hand is mandatory, in my view, simply because it is close at hand. Then again, there's nothing wrong with having both close at hand, just in case it really does hit the fan. But I like the idea of being able to put your hand on something immediately at the first indication of trouble.

Get whatever will make you happy and you'll enjoy. Don't worry about collecting the best 'arsenal' or having all the bases covered. If you want to shoot clays, get a shotgun and go have fun. You already have a pistol for the house and you can put a short barrel on the shotgun if you want to keep it at home for another layer of defense.

On the Judge - disclaimer, I've never shot one, but I've held it and inspected it, and I don't really see the appeal at all. The thing is a massive beast. But, everyone is built differently I suppose. I would really love to see someone shoot a around of trap with one though.

How about the tactical aspect of being two types of guns loaded at once.

I don't really think it matters - if you REALLY need to shoot someone, I doubt you are going to, or will have the time to, think about it. And, it's probably better that you don't and just take care of whatever the problem is. In all honesty, I think simpler is better in this case.

Why is everyone assuming the lighting conditions will be ideal?

Some criminals work the daylight shift, but most work nights. I'm going to error on it being pitch black with very limited visability. I'll be scared SH%^$#^less and shaking like a leaf in a tornado with a yellow stream running down my leg. I'll be groggy and sleepy with crap in my eyes making them blurry.

Nothing like the shooting range conditions. What gun are you going to use to save yourself and your family? Something that requires extreme accuracy or something a little more forgiving?

I agree with a shotgun or maybe even a nice carbine. You already have a good handgun so you need something with good power. A good 12 guage is probably the most versatile firearm on the planet.

Nutgun said:

Practice at a range on a still target in a nonthreat atmposhere isn't like real life you're gonna die now shooting. Assuming your house is dark at the time and you're not going to turn on a light to giveaway your position, a shotgun blast to wound someone and knock them down is better than a total miss.

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Even a Taurus Judge with its rifled barrel won't spread buckshot enough to ensure a blind hit, and certainly not with loads specifically designed for it. And even a full-on hit won't necessarily bring down a bad guy immediately.

Nutgun said:

Does anyone here ever target shoot in total darkness?

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Literally total darkness? You can't hit what you can't see, so I would recommend a good tactical flashlight.

Nutgun said:

Why is everyone assuming the lighting conditions will be ideal?

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It's a separate issue that has nothing to do with the type of gun being used.

Nutgun said:

Some criminals work the daylight shift, but most work nights. I'm going to error on it being pitch black with very limited visability. I'll be scared SH%^$#^less and shaking like a leaf in a tornado with a yellow stream running down my leg. I'll be groggy and sleepy with crap in my eyes making them blurry.

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Uh...no offense, but maybe you should just run away as fast as you can.

Nutgun said:

Nothing like the shooting range conditions. What gun are you going to use to save yourself and your family? Something that requires extreme accuracy or something a little more forgiving?

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Shotguns aren't very forgiving at all, typically. While they might give you a slightly greater chance of nicking a bad guy instead of missing him entirely, then again you should not be shooting blind in the first place. Learn how to use a flashlight along with any firearm you might use for self-defense, and/or attach a flashlight to the weapons themselves. The latter seems to be exactly what the OP intends to do, so it hasn't been an issue in this thread.

Uh...no offense, but maybe you should just run away as fast as you can.


My house and I was sleeping.

Do to the position of my entry doors and the proximaty of the neighbors house my target area will most likely be toward their house. If the perp makes it upstairs.

The next thing to deal with will be the dog barking and going crazy adding to the confusion.

Using a flashlight gives away your position immediately. And I feel your tactical advantage. Especially if you just happen to be aiming the light in the wrong direction. So when the light comes on you better be pulling the trigger. And hoping each is looking right where they need to be.

A shotgun is a poor choice for investigating a bump in the night. It's better suited for defending your room while you wait for the cavalry to arrive. I would get a handgun. But since you already have one available and have indicated you enjoy shooting clays, get the shotgun. Just don't expect to clear rooms with it efficiently at o-dark-thirty.

mtravinski....I agree that a shottie is your logical choice. No HD/SD arsenal is complete without one. If your need to get up and investigate, you can grab the OL's .45 and leave her safely in bed, snuggled up with the shottie. If someone storms in thru the bedroom door, the best grab and shoot is a pump shotgun. Unfortunately, the best HD/SD shotties ain't worth a damn for shooting clay pigeons and vice versa. Barrels and chokes change out easy enough, so if need be, one can have both in one. The shotgun next to my bed is my Mossy Turkey gun. The 20'' barrel makes it compact and easy to swing in close quarters, I have shot thousands of rounds thru it over the years and thanks to huntin' Turkeys, I can load and operate it effectively in the dark. I know exactly where it shoots and it instinctively points to where I look. The loads in the pipe are the same loads that I use for turkeys.......3'' #5s High Velocity. Longest shot anywhere in my house is 7 yards. I know this for a fact. The shot column at that range is lethal and devastating........but still will have a hard time penetrating the floor/ceiling to the kids room or thru the walls to the neighbors. I have no doubts this load would kill a human just as fast as any other HD/SD gun, as long as my shots are inside my home. I have other options for longer ranges, and when portability is important, but for inside my home...I'll stick with a shottie.

Nutgun.....did you see the article in the new "Guns and Ammo" on Winchesters new load developed primarily for the Taurus "Judge''? The 2 1/2'' shell holds three discs or ''mini-slugs'' combined with 12 BB pellets. Sounds like an interesting combo.

Regardless of what gun you use for SD/HD, one must be proficient with it and know it well. Handguns are tuff to be accurate with unless you practice....continuously. Even a shotgun takes practice and use to get familiar with it.......and yes, a "Judge" will take work to be consistent...even with the shotshells. Small calibers that you can handle well and shoot accurately will work much better than a hand cannon that you can't hit squat with. Having confidence in the weapon you chose is half the battle. Remember, it ain't the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

Why is everyone assuming the lighting conditions will be ideal?

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Actually, I assume that the lighting conditions won't be ideal:

http://www.opticsplanet.net/streamlight-tlr2-weapon-mounted-flashlight-laser.html

http://www.opticsplanet.net/surefire-6p-led-flashlight.html

I have 3 kids in my house, ranging in age from 2 to 15. I'm not pulling the trigger - or even putting my finger on the trigger - until I've identified my target.

Using a flashlight gives away your position immediately.

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So does firing blindly into what might turn out to be an empty hallway. Personally, I'd rather see where my rounds are going.

R

First of all. To the judge owners. I am NOT about to put 410 rounds down range at ANYBODY threatening my life. It doesnt matter. Handgun or Shotgun. Whatever you pick you have to practice practice practice. Thats the only way to be efficient with any weapon.

To the guy complaining about the darkness: Look dude. If you practice and train you can overcome this obstacle. When your adrenaline is screaming because somebody has invaded YOUR castle and its time to grab the boys and defend YOUR family, you will have no problem. Establish a lighting system(be it personal or household), practice your tactics, and take care of business.

How about a Marlin Camp 9 ?

I would go with a Mossberg combo. You can use the short barrel for home defense and long barrel to bust skeet. You can also add a magazine extension for home defense bringing the capacity to seven. A side saddle and your set.

The handgun can be used for bumps in the night and the shotgun for situations where you are hunkering down. It will handle any societal breakdown except for maybe an invasion by large armed hostile force.

This lets you acquire a centerfire precision rifle and "home defense rifle" as well as your own defensive handgun and rimfire pistol as you can and if desired. I did the same until all my bases were covered and then got a few guns I just wanted. Now this took a while but I can concentrate on ammo to shoot them all.