Prefered Home Defense Weapon

[powermad]

tacstar sez..
Shotguns are widely recommended for home defense but I've never quite understood why. Due to their size they are cumbersome,they are difficult to store & conceal.

You need the right tool for the job at hand.



Many things can dictate what will be the correct tool.
Knowing how to wield said tool plays a lot into the outcome of a given situation.

I subscribe to the DRT outcome.

 

[Barbara]

Carbine length AR-15.

 

[realmswalker]

I'm curious as to if there is any data on the number of home defense shoots and if more were succesfull with a shotgun or with a handgun. Anyone know where something like this can even be found?

 

[Bazooka Joe71]

I live on the third floor and have neighbors on both sides and all around.
I'm not going to open up with a rifle inside my house with the worry of overpenetration or killing someone sleeping in their bed because I couldn't properly prepare for my environment.

I do keep a 357 handy, but that's more of something I keep with me at all times.

You don't think a .357 bullet is going to penetrate more than a .223?

Anyone who feels this way really needs to read over this.

Besides, anyone who looks like this:



Has to know what they are talking about, right?


Sorry BOONER, I couldn't resist

 

[stevereno1]

for investigating a potential problem, go with a handgun. I keep a G-27 on the nightstand for venturing out into the house because a long gun is easy to grab by the barrel and make a mess of things. I keep a mossberg 500 persuader in the bedroom in case I want to stay put and call the police, which is what anyone should do unless you are checking on other family members.

 

[BuntlineSpecial]

First off, a lot of love for the scattergun, but please remember when the shot is leaving the muzzle, I believe the textbook rate of expansion on the pattern is one inch per foot, or yard ( I misremember and am writing this on the fly, once I check it, I will edit). Figuring the ranges in a typical HD situation being the length of an average living room, it could be quite easy to miss.
I have had a lot of folks tell me that someone is more likely to take my handgun than a long gun. They eventually end up admitting they got the statistic from someone else, "someone else" is ususally the BradyBunch. They are the originators of the "take it and use it against you" myth. (Do you really think a burglar, just out trying to make his "dishonest living" is going to decide to try this crap, or just go down the street to the "Handgun free zone" house?)
+1 to the idea a big gun and big shells being easy to manipulate under stress/in the dark.
As for "the intimidating sound of racking around into the breech", I believe Mas Ayoob pointed out that in some situations, it could tell your attacker that he is facing a rube that didn't think to arm his weapon untill the last second. Something to concider in that.
I take a team view of HD weapons. handgun for manuverability, shotgun for defense of the safe room, once all the munchkins and animals are safe behind closed doors and we are waiting for the cavalry. Just my 2-cents

 

[Brad Johnson]

I can't speak for the original poster, but if I rack the slide and the BG isn't scared away by the sound then perhaps we will need to go to the next level of our force continuum.

And you, in doing so, have gone into the situation with one less round than your firearm is capable of holding. That, or you've shucked a perfectly good round out on the floor. You wouldn't load only 5 rounds into your personal defense six-shooter, nor would you pull a round out of the chamber and toss it on the floor. Suggestion either would get you some very funny looks. So why do it with your shotgun?

Oh, and you've also given away your position and told your attacker how you're armed.

You've just startled an attacker who is already in a heightened state of agitation and may well be armed. Your actions could easily result in them randomly firing in your direction out of panic. You have created the very problem you were trying to solve.

Finally, you've given away your most valuable assets - stealth and anonymity. They are your trump card. Until you rack said slide, the BG doesn't know where, or who, you are. Nor do they know what defensive weapons you may or may not have. That leaves you options.

If you feel the overwhelming need to make noise then scream,"I've called the police and I have a gun!" at the top of your lungs. Personally, I wouldn't be wasting the time or breath as both may come in handy later.

Brad

 

[Timthinker]

Buntline, there are some martial artists who still buy into idea that they can disarm dangerous individuals without being harmed. I posted one such story last night, although I am aware of another scam that occured several years ago. Incidents like this make me wonder if some people should change their mailing address to Fantasyland.

Honestly, I really question the intelligence-and honesty-of people who spread these myths. My evil side says encourage them to try these antics in a bad neighborhood.


Timthinker

 

[arctictom]

I use a tactical 458 winchester, you know with a bayonet. and a 4 cartridge holder on the stock.

 

[meef]

I just had an epiphany! (not the same thing as an immaculate conception, but sort of a distant cousin)

All these years that I've been working like the wage slave that I am when I could have been producing something that would sell like hotcakes.

Here's the deal - you've all seen those clever little battery operated gizmos that sound like a fart when you press the button, right? And some of them are pretty loud and grossly realistic too.

Well, I'm going to start making one that when you push the button - sounds like somebody racking the slide on a Remington 870!

Wow! What a rush! You think somebody's breaking into your house and you get out your battery operated Rackinator and head down the hall pushing the button.

CLACK-CLACK! CLACK-CLACK! CLACK-CLACK!

Guaranteed to make the bad guy bust a gut getting the heck outta there before Joe Homeowner makes mincemeat out of him with his oh-so awesome clacking Rackinator!

I know it'd work too. I read it on the Internet.

I'm gonna be soooo rich!

 

[Creature]

I'm in the Navy and as part of my ship's security force, when the alarm sounds for an intruder on the ship (thankfully it has always been a drill so far), it is always the shotgun for me. Even in the confines of a passage way on a ship, which can very tight indeed, I have ZERO problems maneuvering an 18" pump gun.

And I find that, in a pinch, an empty shotgun makes for a great club!

 

[mr_blove]

I have a 120 lb Rottweiler that tends to charge toward the direction of a discharging firearm. Found it out when I went camping with friends and my dog and they started shooting, I was barley able to catch and tackle him before he got to them. My friend recounts "I was out of ammo, I thought I was going to have to buttstroke him". That said I belive he will give me enough time to take whatever action I need to with my XD45.




P.S. Even though my dog is gun aggressive, he is a big goffy teady bear that doesnt even harm kittens(except for stepping on them accidently).

 

[chadmi6]

.45 ACP Hollow Point will knock anyone on their ass

 

[25ACP]

Whatever you have available. If you're worried about overpenetration, use frangibles if possible. Some have mentioned the disadvantage of long guns being unwieldy. I suppose this depends on the design of ones' home, but I just walked around my top floor with my friends Marlin .35 rifle and I feel confident that it would not be too cumbersome to use in a HD role. Having said that, I prefer a pistol. I carry my Kel-Tec P3AT all day long (even while at home), and when it's time for bed, I place it on the nightstand in easy reach. What's important is that you have a gun, any gun, at your disposal, whether it's a shotgun, rifle , or pistol. If the only gun you have is your great grandfathers 1851 Colt Navy, then that is the perfect HD weapon. Of course if you have money, and you are looking for a gun specifically for home defense, your options are manifold. I prefer a pistol, but a shotgun is also an excellent choice. It also depends on who is using it; You may be a Marine Corp sniper, but your Wife or son are unfamilier with firearms. In that case, the simple operation of A S&W .357 magnum would make a lot more sense than say, a Desert Eagle or an 870. The RG-10 is a lot more deadly than the Glock when it is wielded by an individual who knows what he is doing and is familiar with the weapon and its function.

 

[george29]

"Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges!"

View attachment 326397

 

[MachIVshooter]

The sound of a pump shotgun is probably the single most intimidating sound in the world. There are very few sounds than can change an invader's mind quite like that one.

How about BANG!? They'll never hear my action cycle, unless they can detect it during the shot. My HD stuff is Condition 1 all the time, no exceptions.

If they've managed to get past 220 pounds worth of Rotty and GS, they're obviously not after my Television or PC. I won't be questioning their motive at that point. Don't care.

WRT weapon of choice, I have plenty of confidence that only one or two of my 180 gr. 10mm handloads needs to find it's mark to end the confrontation. A handgun is a great deal easier to get into action when you're awakened in the wee hours. Ever try to manipulate your SG while still in bed?

Like I said before, if I have time, I'll get to the AR. But the pistols on the nightstand can start the leadworks a whole lot faster. I'd hate to have to fumble to grab the SG or rifle from under the bed when the BG is standing in the doorway or already coming through the window. I can access my handgun without taking my eyes off the threat, let alone rolling over to reach down. I could just see myself fall to the floor in that panicked situation. No thanks.

 

[goon]

chadmi6 - actually, the .45 probably won't "knock someone on his ass".
What it will do is punch at least a .451 inch hole (I think) in someone who is trying to harm you. The resulting loss of nervous function (hopefully) or blood will hopefully make him unable to carry on hurting you.
I've shot steel plates with rifles and they only weighed 40 or so pounds. Taking a full power hit from a FAL or Mosin-Nagant didn't knock them back into the weeds somewhere, it just tipped them far enough to get gravity involved in the equation. So from that experience, I don't see how a .45 ACP with only about 380 Ft Lbs of energy could knock a 160 pound person down when a full power rifle with several times that much energy doesn't even have the "knockdown power" to throw a 40 pound peice of steel around.

OTOH, I have seen even low brass shotshells knock fairly heavy targets around. For those who are concerned with "knockdown power", I doubt you could do much better than a load of buckshot from a 12 or 20 gauge at close range.
But that's another discussion I guess.

Back on the topic though...
The real reason that I got interested in shotguns as HD choices was simple - economics. I had just moved into my first apartment and I didn't want to bring all my guns with me. I was concerned about not being able to secure them as well as they were at my parents' house.
But I still needed something more effective than a 9mm (nothing wrong with them but I wanted something bigger). So I looked around and found a used Mossberg 500 with a 18" barrel for $149. I figured for close range work it would do fine. The recoil of a 12 gauge never bothered me, ammo can be bought anywhere, and best of all was that at that price I considered (past tense - now I really like it) the gun to be semi-disposable. If I had to use it and it was confiscated or if the place burned down, I was only out $150 instead of $700 for a nice semiauto pistol.

Overall, that gun has impressed me as being just plain more gun for the money than any other I have ever owned. At 20 yards with a load of 2.75in Federal 00 I am putting a pattern smaller a dinner plate on a target - about like a 9 round burst from an Uzi. For indoors I use Federal reduced recoil #4 buckshot. It is like emptying a 10/22 hi cap into something with every pull of the trigger. It keeps enough effectiveness but with less chance of penetrating through walls (apartment dwellers are concerned with this). Some would argue that even #4 buck is marginal for defense and they have a good point, but If I had to go smaller than that I could probably go with one of the very large birdshot sizes and not be too terrible off. Past 20 yards I can switch to slugs and have a gun that will put a 1 ounce bullet into something big and mean at 70 yards. The shotgun allows me to tailor the ammo to the problem.
It is true that you really probably don't need to worry about slugs for HD use and that 70 yards is a really hard shot to justify for that, but the shotgun still has my respect for those reasons.
As for racking the slide, mine gets loaded with only 4 rounds in the mag and an empty chamber. If for some reason you needed to change ammo fast, you just stuff one in the mag, work the action, and stuff another in the mag. That gives you the ability to choose the perfect ammo for knocking off a rabid animal at 40 yards or for educating Mr. rapist about the dangers of harming you and yours in about two seconds.
And I haven't ever been in any kind of gunfight, but I can tell you that with the adrenaline rush of hunting its also way easier to get the single shotgun bead on the target and pull the trigger than it is to line up the sights of a rifle. Handguns are even worse for me.
Some might call a shotgun cumbersome or too big in close quarters. Maybe it is for them. But I will take them as they are and play for their strengths.

 

[OEF_VET]

Personally, I keep a 1911 LDA in the nightstand, and a 14" barreled 870 sitting next to it.

 

[yesit'sloaded]

For the fun of this thread I will mention a perverse idea I have had for awhile for the ultimate BFG. A SBR 45-70.

 

[protolith]

Everybody knows that the sound of a shotgun slide racking will cause the bad guy to **** his pants and run from your house screaming like a 12 year old girl. The bad guy will rethink his life and repent all his sins and transgressions, and the next day on his way to turn himself in to the police and confess his crimes he will buy a little kid a puppy.

Oh yea and if you let out a guttural scream while you rack your slide, a quart of blood will just spill out of the bad guy, you don't even have to shoot.

So remember every time you rack your slide a little kid gets a puppy...

 

[czbegenner]

I would have my REM 870 ,MY AK-47,MY GLOCK22(40CAL) MY K-9 TRAINED
K9,MY MOM WITH THE 357,AND MY TRUSTY SWORD.

 

[Gord]

Nudity.

 

[outofbattery]

I use a layered defense:

First and most important is living in an exceptionally safe area.

It's not only hard to find my home,but I'm 1/4 mile from the police station they'd have to pass.

A thief would have to also pass by multiple homes that are easier to access and have far more affluent inhabitants.

If they made all of those dumb decisions,there are 2 English Mastiffs that might have a word of prayer with them as to why exactly they are at their house.Most people tend to have second thoughts when confronted with 400lbs of dog.

 

[Zach S]

However my during administration of justice class my instructor who was a 25 year LAPD veteran stated that in a close quarter combat situation homeowners have often fired several rounds missing their assailant & have had their guns taken from the during a struggle & in some instances lost their lives by being shot with their own guns.

Training and regular practice greatly reduces the chances of this happening. A lot of folks have a gun at home. Its in a shoebox in the top of their closet. They take it out to the range once or twice a year, put a box of shells through it, go home, maybe clean it, and put it back in the closet. How many new shooters have you seen at the range miss the target at 5 yards? If I only shot 50 to 100 rounds a year, I probably would too.

He said he had never seen this scenario play out where the homeowner was armed with a longgun. In a close quarter combat situation it is next to impossible to miss with a shotgun(due to the pattern of the blast).

The defense rounds I use in my mossberg have an eight to ten inch spread at 25 yards. At 5 yards I can cover the pattern with my fist. At room distances that would be 9 pellets of 00 buck making one big nasty hole.

there's one thing for sure about a shot gun, if there is an intruder in the next room, all you have to do is work the slide action of a pump, no one mistakes that sound

I HATE this statement with a passion. If the BG can hear you rack your scattergun, you let him get to close to you, and your loved ones while you were holding a club. A very expensive club, which is a distant second to a 6 D cell maglight. Why not just yell "Hey, I'm in the bedroom and I've got a shotgun!"

Not only that, the BG knows your whereabouts, assuming he's armed, whats to stop him from shooting in your direction? If he does start shooting, are you going to shoot blindly though your walls? Who else in in your bedroom? Is it just you they're gonna be shooting at?

 

[Creature]

.45 ACP Hollow Point will knock anyone on their ass

Oh lord. If only that were always true.

Regardless, a good plan and effective employment of cover and concealment and a reliable weapon will usually win the day. My plan is layered defense to include my 8-shot Mossberg 590 loaded with 00Buck...backed up by a 9mm Sig P226 loaded with 115gr Corbon JHP +P.