Prefered Home Defense Weapon

[Barbara]

Actually, no, he's a former cop and current instructor in pistol, carbine *and* defensive shotgun. He also shoots better than anyone I've ever personally seen and is more knowledgable about shooting than anyone I personally know. And not to be a jerk, but I know a lot of people, and some of them are damned fine shooters.

And the nice thing is, he doesn't spout things he doesn't know about. He studies, experiments, and seeks out information with an open mind. He's a student.

You might want to give that a try yourself. And if not, at least providing some references beyond the vague "they," and giving data, instead of calling people names will be a big help to your argument.

 

[bdjansen]

Actually, no, he's a former cop and current instructor in pistol, carbine *and* defensive shotgun.

Yep. And he is trying to sell his class.

You might want to give that a try yourself. And if not, at least providing some references beyond the vague "they," and giving data, instead of calling people names will be a big help to your argument.

What do you need? You need me to tell you what a shotgun does? I hope not.

The OP asked what the prefered home defense weapon is. His buddy had already told him shotgun. I agreed.

You can use whatever you like. Get a slingshot for all I care. I see two kinds of people plugging the black rifles for HD. Mall ninjas who need to justify their expensive new toy, and people who want to sell you a new gun.

Use what you feel comfortable with. But don't tell a guy on his second post that he needs to spend a grand to defend his home.

It's a simple question with a simple answer. Shotgun.

 

[BOONER]

LOL I havent tried to sell a class, you dont read well i guess.

as a wise man once told me
some people shouldnt have oxygen.

you must be a trap shooter.

 

[25ACP]

OK, I'm fairly new to guns in general (I love 'em, I just don't know that much about 'em) and I gotta ask; What's a "Black Rifle?"

 

[Barbara]

Yeah, that makes sense. He teaches rifle and shotgun, so he's trying to talk people out of using a shotgun for home defense. So he can sell a rifle class. Or not sell a shotgun class. Or something.

I'm asking you to explain what makes a shotgun a superior overall weapon for defense. I don't really need an explanation of what a shotgun does, but if there's some detail I'm overlooking (beyond They Say) then by all means.

So, they're typically less expensive. True to an extent, but not necessarily always the case. I'm presuming you're talking about a semi-auto, if you're going to be anywhere near the speed of follow up shots with a rifle. I'm not saying they can't be had relatively inexpensively, but they're going to cost more than a $100.00 pump, but for that matter, you can buy an AK pretty cheaply, and even reliable ARs can be had for a few hundred dollars if you look around.

You still have a heavier gun with less capacity, more recoil, slower follow up shots, etc.

Currently, the military doesn't tote around shotguns, they use rifles, presumably because they're better suited for the job they need to do. How does that requirement change for home defense?

The one thing I agree with is that I don't care what you use. If a shotgun is what you have and it works, good deal. Better than a sharp stick. But don't make statements you can't back up, and so far as I can tell, you haven't offered anything in the way of evidence that I should trade my carbine for a shotgun.

 

[Barbara]

I think in general a "Black Rifle" refers to an AR but can mean just about anything..including a wood stocked AK47.

 

[BOONER]

Barb, forget him at least you actually train. with all 3 systems. and dotn read magazines you mall ninja

 

[sm]

delete

 

[Barbara]

Hey, sm..don't let on but that page reminds me that I'm looking at one of Booner the Mall Ninja's shotguns right now..and it ain't in basic black.

 

[BOONER]

Thats cause i shoot SC and Skeet.

 

[bdjansen]

Currently, the military doesn't tote around shotguns, they use rifles, presumably because they're better suited for the job they need to do. How does that requirement change for home defense?

The military does use shotguns. A guy in this very thread said he uses a shotgun to defend his ship. They use different weapons for different jobs. Are you seriously asking how what the military requires changes for HD? I'll assume not.

Nothing provides the one shot stoping power like a shotgun does.

A shotgun is the correct answer to the OP's question.

 

[BOONER]

LOL know i know your an arm chair warrior. by that statment

My best friends pastor took a 12 gauge slug to the chest he lived leads a normal life.

we had a really nice shooting here a while back)guy took a 12 gauge fed tactical load to the chest at 12 yards lived to stand trial
all 9 pellets

my partner took 6 of 9 pellets in his lower torso he returned fire and held postion got nice shiny thing for his uniform

You again have no clue of what you speak.

yes shotguns have been used in recent conflict in roles of prisoner security door breaching and more not as wide spread as a carbine or rifle. again and oh yes ship security the marine fleet teams use them as well as M-4s,.

again you really dont have a clue, you have nothign but them and magazines to back your storys and bad info.

by the way I used a 12 gauge in 1995 to defend my life . dont tell me about one stop shots .

 

[sm]

delete

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Oh, Darn

I tried really hard to stay out of this thread.

Mostly 'cuz I don't know anything about guns or self defense.

Ignorance is a good reason to stay out a thread, don't you think?



So, here I am, stayin' out of the thread, y'know, like a good little putz, when my super mod radar notices a post alleging that the sound of racking the slide on a pump shotgun is probably the most intimidating sound . . .

And it hit me: wouldn't you think that assertion was inevitable? And if it was inevitable, don't you think I would have been able to find it in the THR thread inevitabilities thread?

So I went looking, so I could cite the number of the "inevitability" here.

You know what? It's not there!!



So, someone -- someone with a flare for the dramatic -- needs to update that thread to mention the "sound of racking a pump shotgun" as being a Really Good Thing for home defense.

Steve? You wanna get that?

 

[GEM]

Would everyone who recommends gun type XYZ, tell us how they have trained with the gun in house scenarios and compete with it in three gun or IDPA like matches?

To start a flame war, I find that a significant number of the shotgun fans who spout spread of pattern, alternating loads, or the rack sound of terror have not trained in realistic scenarios with such a gun.

I've decided after some experience with each, that the AR is the go to long arm if you are bunkered down in the safe room. Also instantly available are some semi handguns. That is not to say that my shotgun isn't a fun gun and would be quite effective against a bad guy. I just think the AR is a better choice. I could probably handled the situation with a Walker Colt also.

Of course, my 1911 will blow the guy out through the wall but the recoil will rip my arm off. Told this by some 'experts'.

 

[BOONER]

why do I always have to be the mall ninja....... i dont even go to the mall.

dont forget that a 12 gauge will lift the full shoping cart off the ground 3 feet..
(Ilove that scene in the movie cobra)

 

[ArfinGreebly]

What? 1911?

GEM, dude, don't shoot them with your 1911, man!

There won't be anything left for the forensics guys!

You'll go to jail for depriving CSI of vital evidence.

 

[sm]

delete

 

[stevereno1]

How about a marlin 336 30-30! It is a fast, and hard hitting some beach. (may overpenetrate though)

 

[stevereno1]

Booner, the object is not to kill, but rather to stop. I'd rather have any person that i'd shoot in self defense (God forbid) live, than to die at my hands. That being said, I will shoot if needed, to stop a threat.

 

[Charles Foxtrot]

.
...in a close quarter combat situation homeowners have often fired several rounds missing their assailant & have had their guns taken from the during a struggle & in some instances lost their lives by being shot with their own guns.

I believe that Massad Ayoob (my apologies if I butchered his name) teaches that it's relatively easy to take a pistol from the hands of an unwary shooter. A long gun with better geometry, with two hands widely separated, seems harder to take away.

As for the pump shotgun sound: during the Watts riots a neighbor defended his auto parts store with an 870. At the sound of breaking glass he shouted at the perp to leave. No effect. At the racking of the shotgun, the perp "turned white" (neighbor's words) and backed out at least twice as fast as he came in.

The universal language of the pump shotgun.

YMMV

 

[goon]

I have no issue with "training" but I'll admit that beyond the infrequent trip to the range, my "training" mostly consists of what I learned in basic. I have shot guns since I was a kid, but truth be told, I'd be hard pressed to draw smiley faces with a 9mm at 25 yards right now.

But with a shotgun that somehow doesn't matter as much. Mine comes to my shoulder naturally and the bead settles where I'm looking without really thinking about it. It points and handles well for me. The recoil is pretty stiff with some loads but not at all bad with tactical buckshot, actually probably less that the recoil from an AK. And even with full power loads, I'm a chunky guy in my 20's. I can take it (actually, I sort of like it!). But for those who are recoil sensitive, have arthritis, are smaller statured, or maybe just smarter than me, you'd be just about as well protected with a 20 gauge too. I'm sure this has been brought up before, but if you actually have to use your gun to defend yourself you're almost certainly going to lose it. I like guns and I'd like to have an AR, but it just isn't in the budget. If it were though, two of them at around $1K each wouldn't be. So when the police confiscate your lovely AR carbine after a defensive shooting, you had better be able to replace it or you will be defenseless the next day.
Another $150 for a used pump would be much more bearable to me and many others than $1000 to replace an AR. Plus with an AR, you need mags and accessories. I never really feel comfortable with a gun without having a good supply of ammo for it too and with an AR, that would mean about 1K plus some for range use. With my shotgun I feel comfortable with a .50 cal ammo can full of slugs and buck. Altogther I have about $200 in it INCLUDING the ammo can. For that price, it gives me pretty much all the capability I need in a HD gun and then some.
Also, I don't know exactly where training came into the discussion (although it is a good point) but I would argue that the less training you got, the better off you are with a shotgun instead of a rifle (probably) or a handgun (almost definitely). Long guns are generally easier to shoot than a handgun and shotguns have been the easiest for me. Like I said, get the bead on it and pull the trigger. About as close to foolproof to me as it gets.

 

[Roswell 1847]

I find it hard to belive that anyone could doubt the effectiveness of a Twelve Gauge at close range.
Sure there are rare instances of someone surviving such a wound. Heck Suburo Sakai took a .50 BMG slug through the head then shot down two more Hellcats and flew hundred of miles back to his base with one eye blown out ,much of his face missing ,and one leg nearly blown off at mid thigh. He was still alive last I heard.

I know a guy who was literally cut in half by a double barrel to the back.
(his wife who was a co worker of mine caught him in bed with a fourteen year old girl)What was left of his lower body had to be surgically removed. He has a custom wheelchair with a dummy lower body to avoid drawing too much attention, it also carries the waste handling system and plumbing for injecting predigested food into what remains of his innards.

Regardless of magazine articles of today historically the shotgun has been the main go to gun for Law Men for two centuries at least.
Reports from Afghanistan indicate that the new under the barrel straightpull shotgun is very popular with the troops. Mainly because the 5.56 and 9mm FMJ continue to prove to be inadequate as manstoppers.

 

[Barbara]

That's what you guys are missing. No one is saying at 12 gauge isn't effective (I'm going to be using one in about 1/2 hour here and I'm sure hoping its effective.) Some of us are saying overall, a rifle offers advantages a shotgun doesn't. Others are saying shotguns are better because.

I really don't care. Sometimes a shotgun is a better choice..sometimes a pistol is better. Use what you want or have.

But I still believe, for the reasons I've given, that a rifle is a better choice in most home defense situations. Even without the racking sound.

And on that note, I'm out of this one.

 

[BOONER]

Booner, the object is not to kill, but rather to stop. I'd rather have any person that i'd shoot in self defense (God forbid) live, than to die at my hands. That being said, I will shoot if needed, to stop a threat.

what does that have to do with this thread.

Let me explain this to you in not so certian terms

a person or group of persons armed, have broguht the fight to you in your own home that you work for, your wife works for, and your children feel safe in. They have chossen to bring that to you and take that from you and possibly your life. and your wifes body and god knows what else to your kids. plus your whole sense of security and well being, if you surivie it,

Got news for you.....IM not that rabbit Im not going to be killed. nor is my family or those im protecting........ Im going to fight at all cost no matter what i need to do to ensure my living and my famliies period Im the victim not them they choose me and my place and they choose the wrong place and wrong fight.......period.
You will be sued maybe or maybe not depending on all matters, if they live or die or are wounded/disabled etc..... no matter what your going to court.at some point. period.

YOU arent telling me anything i havent heard or taught before....

Then there is the real world.