Will a .380 pocket pistol really solve all my problems?

easyg said:

Saying that a .380 is a 9mm is like saying a .38 Special is a .357 magnum.

Sure they share the same approximate bullet diameter, but the .380 is simply not as effective as the 9mm when it comes to quickly stopping human aggressors.

Click to expand...

No they're not "approximately" the same diameter, they are the SAME diameter.....None of them quickly stop human aggressors, unless you hit the spine, brain or an oxygen suppling organ. The .380 is capable of doing all 3.

It amazes me how the people that use 9mm think it's 50cal and the .380 is .22......LMAO.....Like the old day arguments of 9mm vs .45......How things change. Now it's the 9mm snobs. LOL

Let us not all forget that the .380 ,9mm Kurtz round, is the exact same size in diameter as the .38, 357, 357 Sig, 9x19 Luger.

Click to expand...

Not exactly, but it's really, really close. .357 is actually 9.1mm.

In FMJ, it has more than adequate penetration to be lethal.

Click to expand...

Yes, but keep in mind being lethal and having stopping power are two different things.

Yes, but keep in mind being lethal and having stopping power are two different things.

Click to expand...

Exactly.

The 9mm and the .357 magnum perform light years better at quickly stopping human aggressors than the .380.

No they're not "approximately" the same diameter, they are the SAME diameter.....

Click to expand...

No, there are slight variations in diameter.

None of them quickly stop human aggressors, unless you hit the spine, brain or an oxygen suppling organ. The .380 is capable of doing all 3.

Click to expand...

The .380 is perhaps capable under ideal conditions.
But in self defense situations, conditions are seldom ideal.
No matter how you look at it, when it comes to quickly stopping human aggressors, the .380 has a dismal reputation.

I have decided that I am ok with the ballistics of the .380acp

Click to expand...

Let's hope that the drug-enraged 300 # machete wielding Bubba has "decided" to be stopped by those same ballistics.

Let's hope that the drug-enraged 300 # machete wielding Bubba has "decided" to be stopped by those same ballistics.

Click to expand...

That's far from an accurate description of the usual robber and/or violent criminal.

easyg said:

No, there are slight variations in diameter.

Click to expand...

LMAO....You're a hopeless cause!.....What's the difference big guy, .355 or .356?

The .380, 9mm & 38 Super are all the same standard diameter, either .355 or .356 depending on bullet manufacture. Only difference is weight in grains.

You may be trying to look smart for the green horns but not so smart to those who know .......There's a reason they call it 9mm-short.

I have a .380 Keltec that sits in my safe full time ever since I bought a Kahr PM40 and a SW J-Frame (642). Contrary to a previous poster's experience/opinion, I find the Kahr PM40 very comfortable in my pocket and really appreciate the power of the .40. I also find it much easier to shoot accurately than my Keltec. I also pocket carry my 642 quite a bit and find it a much better choice in both power and shootability than my .380. As a matter of fact, my Kahr is in my pocket as I type this.

Having carried an LCP for about 6 months I have a few comments.

First is that if you can get away with more pistol, do it. I love my little .380 and feel comfortable with it. That said, in times where I can carry a larger caliber I would rather a larger caliber. While I am comfortable with a .380 I feel more comfortable with a 9mm, 40, or 45. This is why I feel multiple pistols are a good idea for CCW. Sure, you could toss the LCP in the pocket and go into most any situation, but if you can carry 12-20 rounds of a bigger caliber without any issues, go for it.

There are situations/clothes that the lcp won't work. I used to carry in my front pocket often. My problem is that the pants I wear cut fairly close to my body. They aren't tight but they don't have much spare room. Even the little LCP would print in the front pocket. In a pocket holster it was tough to tell what it was, but it did show as a big blob and also was a bit uncomfortable. Then I switched to rear pocket carry. This is nice but a few pants have the rear pockets cut a little shallow and the LCP, while not peaking out, will push the top of the pocket slightly open where it could be visible to others. Most of my day I have a shirt tucked in so that isn't acceptable. I did note this when I went shopping the next few times and found a few pair that hide it very well.

I don't wear tight pants but they are cut to not be excessive. Some people here wear pants that could hide an RPG. You'll hear that you can hide a 747 in the front pocket with room to spare. I went to the local shop, explained I was looking for a pocket gun, and asked to try a few in my pockets. I actually went on a few different days with different pants. This gave me a great feeling for what I could and couldn't hide. While the thin keltec 9mm was small, it felt huge in the front pocket and was just a 1/4" too long to fit in even my deepest rear pockets. I tried multiple small revolvers and the width felt huge in the front pockets and it wasn't an option in the rear. I found the LCP to be as large a pistol as I could get away with in any pockets and it worked at least ok in practically all of them. If you feel comfortable with the .380, which I do, the LCP will work in most every situation, though there are smaller and more concealable options out there that may be a better route.

There are situations/clothes that the lcp won't work. I used to carry in my front pocket often. My problem is that the pants I wear cut fairly close to my body. They aren't tight but they don't have much spare room. Even the little LCP would print in the front pocket. In a pocket holster it was tough to tell what it was, but it did show as a big blob and also was a bit uncomfortable.

Click to expand...

In a pocket holster, the LCP looks like a wallet in your pocket, even in tighter jeans. I think you're someone who worries too much about "printing" with a pocket pistol.

And if you're wearing pants so tight that a LCP is uncomfortable in the pocket... I dunno what to tell you

It depends

It depends on whether or not you keep up situational awareness without looking like a scared mouse.

It depends on whether or not you are familiar with the gun to not worry about your shot placement when you need it.

It depends on whether or not you are comfortable with a smaller caliber, which, if you are really comfortable with just being armed, you can go down to a .22 (which I did on many occasions as a police officer when off-duty).

So, pocket gun in a pocket, or larger gun in a holster?

It depends on you, not on what others think.

The Doc is out now.

"Let's hope that the drug-enraged 300 # machete wielding Bubba has "decided" to be stopped by those same ballistics."

It's good to know that there really are constants in the universe
drug-enraged 300 # machete man is (still) alive and well, and thriving
and so is ol' Grizz

always mind your backdrop, and practice them splits

The best part is the 9 mm short (Kurtz) only travels at 150 less per second than a 9x19 Luger round

Click to expand...

I don't know what you are using but my 9mm cartridges routinely go about 220-250 fps faster than my .380s and launch a heavier bullet which ends up giving me nearly twice the power.

And if you're wearing pants so tight that a LCP is uncomfortable in the pocket... I dunno what to tell you

Click to expand...

Skinny Jeans!

Skinny Jeans!

Click to expand...

The wearing of skinny jeans by a male is only slightly more heterosexual than cuddling with Richard Simmons while watching Brokeback Mountain

BIG DEAL........17 inches of penetration from a WWB Semi Wad Cutter will kill you just as dead and just as quick.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure why you have so much faith in fmj over modern hollow points, but I give up. To each his own.

If .380 and 9mm did give similar performance they'd be carrying .380 nato instead of 9mm nato.

And if you ever do encounter the machete-wielder, just give him some fries and he'll leave you alone; at least that's what happened near my house earlier this month:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOEDKrK3Qoc

http://www.news9.com/Global/story.asp?S=12661321





Back on-topic, we should quit all this fuss about the ballistics of the .380 round, as the OP stated that is not the argument here. Again, the question was about the ease of carry of different pistols, not the round they fire. If you cannot accept that as the topic of discussion, and continue to delineate some other path in this thread... well that's just not very High Road.

Ben86 said:

I don't know what you are using but my 9mm cartridges routinely go about 220-250 fps faster than my .380s and launch a heavier bullet which ends up giving me nearly twice the power.

Click to expand...

Sorry but I've heard this so many times I can't keep ignoring it......Taint no way in hell 9mm is giving you "twice" the power over .380.....Is it a stronger round, absolutely. Is it twice the power, hell no.

Just because energy numbers can be twice .380 doesn't make it twice as powerful. Energy doesn't tell the whole story.

If energy were everything than the little 85gr 7.62x25 Tokarev round (500 plus lbs @ 1650fps.) is one of the absolute best SD semi auto rounds available. Do you know how many times I've heard people on here say the 7.62x25 round is a lousy SD round?.....A lot, about as much as I here this non-sense about 9mm being twice what .380 is.

Is 9mm twice the weight of .380?.....Is 9mm twice as fast as .380?.....Than how in the hell is it twice as powerful? Because some mumbo, jumbo energy figures are twice as high?

You can believe that all you want but taint no way in hell I'm buying what you're selling.

In a pocket holster, the LCP looks like a wallet in your pocket, even in tighter jeans. I think you're someone who worries too much about "printing" with a pocket pistol.

Click to expand...

It isn't even that it prints as much as its uncomfortable. I find IWB of a larger pistol to be more comfortable than front pocket carry with an LCP. I wear Dockers slacks and I wear Arizona boot cut jeans. It's not like I'm out looking for form fitting clothes. They are as plain and typical as it gets. I personally have a lot more upper leg than most people with a waist my size which means little free leg room.

And if you're wearing pants so tight that a LCP is uncomfortable in the pocket... I dunno what to tell you

Click to expand...

I am still trying to picture the tight jeans with a pocket pistol print in it....

Click to expand...

Skinny Jeans!

Click to expand...

The wearing of skinny jeans by a male is only slightly more heterosexual than cuddling with Richard Simmons while watching Brokeback Mountain

Click to expand...

All typical responses. I like to wear clothes that aren't baggy. I have rather muscular upper legs which means I either wear baggy pants that look like I'm a gangster or I wear pants that look normal and have minimal free room from my knees up. Here are a few pictures to show it isn't a case of skinny jeans. Lower down the jeans are boot cut as well so there is no lower leg constriction. From a social point of view they have never been something where I caught hell for wearing skinny jeans or womens jeans, which if I were I would catch unending harassment. The slacks are regular Dockers.




So again while you may be able to fit the statue of liberty in your pockets, I can't and I struggle to be comfortable with even an LCP in a holster in the fronts, which is why I rear pocket carry now all the time. Not everyone wears baggy clothes or has bird legs. Oh and sorry for the Tshirt with slacks. Didn't feel like putting a dress shirt on to take a picture of the pants.

The 9 mm Kurtz round has filled many a grave in Europe and South America. Maybe a library card would help you understand better. Just saying!

Click to expand...

The .22 has killed many men too, but it still sucks as a self defense round, and for the same reason the .380 sucks....

Neither are very good at quickly stopping human aggressors.

Even in Europe law enforcement has moved away from the .380 in favor of more effective calibers....like the 9mm.

And again, I will remind you that a .380 is a 9 mm round. It is just lighter at 90 grains than a 9x19 at 147 but both will kill you just as dead at 10 to 20 feet.

I know a 9x18 Mak round can kill a human because I did it in Vietnam a couple of times. I also saw human shot with 1911 that did not die as well while I was there.

Click to expand...

You seem to be confused on what can "kill" a person and what can quickly stop a human aggressor.
A slingshot can kill a man, but it is a poor self defense weapon.

Yeah, the .380 can be lethal, as can the 9x18 Makarov.
But neither perform exceptionally well at quickly stopping human threats.
This is why cops don't carry .380 pistols these days.
There are so many better performing calibers available.

Like someone said earlier, for me it boils down to comfort. If it's not comfortable, I won't carry much. I have a 642 with a CT laser which I carry in my jacket pocket during the winter but it's just too big to pocket carry during the summer.
I recently bought an LCP and it's just what I needed. It's thin, light and accurate.
Maybe some of you live in a lot more dangerous place than I do but I can't imagine carrying some of the guns that you mention. I'm not going to buy my pants two sizes too big to carry IWB.
The way I figure it, the front pocket is the most logical place to carry. I figure the most likely scenario where I would need a gun would be somewhere like the WalMart parking lot at night. If I sense danger, I put my hand in my front pocket. If it turns out that there is no danger, I take my hand out of my pocket.
Chances are almost nil that I will ever actually need my pistol and if I do, I think the .380 will work out just fine.

Excuse me but the chosen LEO back up gun is a .380 and they do carry them.

Click to expand...

Where did you get this nugget of info?
From all that I have ever heard, seen, or read, the .38 snubbie is "the chosen LEO back up gun".

Now, to remove all of your confusion. When was the last time you had to shoot a human being to save your own life friend?

Click to expand...

Well, I once shot a guy in Iraq, but looking back, I don't think that my life was really that much in danger.
He didn't die btw.

Did you know the sword is by far the most lethal weapon man has ever developed to kill another man.
A handgun of any caliber is only 20% effective as a lethal weapon. I just love internet caliber experts

Click to expand...

I don't know where you got that notion but I think that it's total BS.

Swords don't compare to firearms in lethality.
Which is why you don't see armies fighting each other with swords these days.
Which would you rather face, an 8 year old African boy who is armed with a sword, or an 8 year old African boy armed with an AK-47?
What about a 70 year old woman armed with a sword, or a 70 year old woman armed with a Glock 19?

FWIW, I would say that the most lethal weapon man as ever devised to kill his fellow man is probably poison.



Now if you're talking about what primitive weapon (pre-firearms) that has killed the most people, I'm betting it still wasn't the sword.
I think the spear has killed much more people than the sword.
The spear was one of man's oldest weapons and was created long before swords were created.
Lots of societies never even had swords, of any kind.
But I can't recall ever hearing of any society that didn't use spears.

The biggest threat to man is man. We are the only species on this earth that seems to be the best killers of our own kind.

Click to expand...

Only if you exclude bacteria and viruses....they are very good at killing man.
Just wait till the next big epidemic.

War never determined a winner, It only determines who is left. If you were truly in Iraq you already know that friend!

Click to expand...

I don't know about that....
The colonist went to war with Britain to gain independence....I would say that we were "the winners".

There is a big difference between "Killing" and "Stopping."

As has been stated, a .22 rimfire can "kill" just fine......it just sucks at making the badguy stop doing the thing you're shooting him for.

Is a .380 enough? For many situations, sure, it can be. The bad news is, we don't get to select our attacker. It might well be the 300# drug enraged badboy with a machete...or it may be a 16 yr old skinny school girl pointing a Glock at you. We don't get to choose which.

But if someone would actually carry a pocket .380, but wouldn't carry anything else, then a .380 is a good choice.........for him. But he would do well to recognize and acknowledge the limitations of the gun and caliber.

just curious...

why is machete man always "Bubba" ?
ain't ya'll yankees got no machetes up there ??
what do 300# drug crazed attackers use up yonder... snow shovels ???