Angry shooter at the range today.

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ms6852

ms6852

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As deer season approaches I see more and more new faces coming around with their store bought ammo trying to get their rifles zeroed. I noticed this man set right next to me as he tried to bore sight his new scope. After shooting about 10 times I notice that he would rest his barrel on the sand bag. I asked him if he realized that his barrel was touching the sandbag and that it would probably through off his shot when the time came for the hunt.

We were both at the 50 and I was using my remington 513T for plinking. He told me to mind my own business since I did not have a real rifle. I showed him my target and told him that my group with Iron sights was better than his with a scope. Anyway he wanted no advice and I left him alone to shoot 2 boxes at 50 yards before he was satisfied. Here is my target.

th_IMGP0041.jpg th_IMGP0049.jpg
 
Maybe it's just me, but, unless asked, I would mind my own business. Exception would be the guy was doing something unsafe with his gun. Then, I would stick my nose right in his (unsafe) business.
 
ms6852 said:
As deer season approaches I see more and more new faces coming around with their store bought ammo trying to get their rifles zeroed. I noticed this man set right next to me as he tried to bore sight his new scope. After shooting about 10 times I notice that he would rest his barrel on the sand bag.
Click to expand...

Resting the barrel like this guy evaluating rifle accuracy?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOf4BAZgEOs&feature=related
 
To the OP, I didn't know resting the barrel on something would affect sighting in. How does it affect it, and what is the proper way? Thank you!
 
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Nice shooting with a real rifle. You never said he finished sighting in his rifle; only that he was satisfied.
 
...

giving someone unasked advice to save some deer from
suffering? Definitely.

Being told to mind my own .. i´d have advised him to bring
good shoes for traling the deer ....
 
He really said that to you? Made fun of your rifle and told you to mind your own business? Seriously?
 
thats why i go eary to the range to sight my rifles in. what pisses me off is the people who don,t have a spotting scope. i put up all the targets i want to shoot and shoot at them one at a time,writting down the info i want in my range book. but it is a slow prosess with the nitwits wanting to run up to the targets to see how they are shooting. i just pack up and go home. if some one ask me to help,i would. but i would not butt in. eastbank.
 
May I offer you some advice...

That is what I say to folks at the indoor range I manage, before offering
said advice. I am an instructor (NRA). I have only had
a few folks say "no, thanks", and they are usually nitwits.

Please, let me be clear, you did nothing wrong, and they guy was way out of line.
In my experience, testosterone levels are at the max with some folks
when they have a firearm in their hand.

I especially like the men who are going to teach the wife or girlfriend (never at the same time) how to shoot.
The majority of them don't know much themselves, let alone teaching.
​
​
 
I see more and more new faces coming around with their store bought ammo trying to get their rifles zeroed.
Click to expand...
Do you have a problem with people that shoot store bought ammo? What's the point of that comment? Not everyone reloads...
 
skipjack said:
May I offer you some advice...

That is what I say to folks at the indoor range I manage, before offering
said advice. I am an instructor (NRA). I have only had
a few folks say "no, thanks", and they are usually nitwits.

Please, let me be clear, you did nothing wrong, and they guy was way out of line.
In my experience, testosterone levels are at the max with some folks
when they have a firearm in their hand.

I especially like the men who are going to teach the wife or girlfriend (never at the same time) how to shoot.
The majority of them don't know much themselves, let alone teaching.
​
​
Click to expand...
I see what you did there
 
well, If someone made fun of my silly rifle I would clear it, hand it to them and say, alright how are you gonna prove this?
OR just go get my .308, set up the bench next to him, and point at the berm, using cheap ammo, I would watch his trigger as he gets close to the pull I would shoot and watch the flinch.
 
one thing i learned when it comes to shooting....

you don't have to follow the advice you're given....but only a fool would refuse to listen to it.
 
We have guys like this at our range too. One idiot a few weeks ago was blasting away with a 300 magnum (perfect for deer, you know), and could barely get on paper at 50 yards. His "group" literally covered the entire surface area of a standard NRA target.

Hunting is great. Shoot it, doll it up with a little garlic and onion, and eat it up. Yum yum, burp. Causing animal suffering because of your incompetence is not cool. There are some people who should not be allowed to hunt.

You were right to say something to this guy. We should all be saying stuff to these kinds of wackos.
 
Hmm. lets see: attitude reflects superiority "trying to zero store bought ammo." Told to mind their own business, the OP sticks a target under his nose. When the other guy doesn't recognize professionalism and superior training, accuses him of being "angry."

There's always a bit more to the story. I'd like to hear from the older guy what was said prior to pointing out the horrible error of resting a barrel on a sandbag and making it an issue. Most hunting rifles are 2 MOA, if he shoots like that all the time with sticks or some support, at less than 400m (the most common range hunting,) he will still get a hit. Considering most military rifles up to the M4 all had sling swivels attached to the barrel, I don't see much problem with effective accuracy. Not the best way to sight in, but frankly, it's none of my business.

Makes me wonder who was the angry shooter, too. Someone came home and posted on the innerweb to soothe his feelings about it.
 
I noticed this man set right next to me as he tried to bore sight his new scope. After shooting about 10 times I notice that he would rest his barrel on the sand bag. I asked him if he realized that his barrel was touching the sandbag and that it would probably through off his shot when the time came for the hunt.
Click to expand...

In part, I can see why the guy wasn't pleased with you...which is part of the reason I don't care for dealing with the public at gun ranges (be it a public range or a well attended private range). While I agree that your critique may be right (as you don't know how he rests his rifle, or if) while hunting and so you don't know how what he is doing will affect his hunting (assuming he is going to be hunting). Maybe the guy is trying to figure out how barrel harmonics are distorted and accuracy affected when the gun is rested on the barrel. You didn't ask, did you?

It is annoying when folks open up with some sort of critique about something for which they don't have all the information. Sometimes folks were helpful, but in a lot of cases the were just folks who just liked to hear themselves sound like they knew what they were talking about when they did not.

I was working on trying to learn how to judge the wind (without all those arfifical spinning flowers and wind guages the benchresters use) and was shooting 55 gr. .223 at 200 yards. There were only three of us shooting and I was the only one shooting at 200 yards. My group with pathetic. A guy from the 50 yard table comes over with his binoculars and stares at my target and finally tells me that "today isn't a good day to be shooting for groups." I thanked him and explained that today was the perfect day for shooting for groups if one is trying to learn how to judge wind speed and doesn't have any other days off this week. So he asks what ammo I am using and then proceeds to tell me how I don't want to be shooting 55 gr. ammo in a cross wind. I asked what ammo I should be using given that I didn't have any other ammo what his choice would be, a) 55 gr., b) 55 gr., or c) 55 gr.

He then started in on how my barrel was getting too hot.....

"Why does everyone else know more about what I am doing than I do when they don't know what I am doing?" was what came to mind. The previous week a guy had gone into detail how my rifle wasn't good for what I was doing, but he never asked what I was doing.

So basically, your opening salvo was telling the guy that he didn't know what he was doing. I realize you were tryng to be helpful, but if the guy is shooting crappy groups (and we assume he wants to do better) and is probably frustrated, then your approach likely was seen as nitpicking and rude.

You probably didn't have time to engage the gun in polite conversation so that there could be a two way understanding of information and shared interests. So he just saw you as a know-it-all busy body at a time when he probably wasn't having a good day.
 
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I mentioned it to a pair of guys one time that they were resting the barrel on a hard rest, and thats why they weren't shooting at all well. I felt like an ass because I came off like a know it all which wasn't my intent. Anyway by golly that fixed the problem! They weren't mad at me.
 
Double Naught Spy said:
In part, I can see why the guy wasn't pleased with you...which is part of the reason I don't care for dealing with the public at gun ranges (be it a public range or a well attended private range). While I agree that your critique may be right (as you don't know how he rests his rifle, or if) while hunting and so you don't know how what he is doing will affect his hunting (assuming he is going to be hunting). Maybe the guy is trying to figure out how barrel harmonics are distorted and accuracy affected when the gun is rested on the barrel. You didn't ask, did you?

It is annoying when folks open up with some sort of critique about something for which they don't have all the information. Sometimes folks were helpful, but in a lot of cases the were just folks who just liked to hear themselves sound like they knew what they were talking about when they did not.

I was working on trying to learn how to judge the wind (without all those arfifical spinning flowers and wind guages the benchresters use) and was shooting 55 gr. .223 at 200 yards. There were only three of us shooting and I was the only one shooting at 200 yards. My group with pathetic. A guy from the 50 yard table comes over with his binoculars and stares at my target and finally tells me that "today isn't a good day to be shooting for groups." I thanked him and explained that today was the perfect day for shooting for groups if one is trying to learn how to judge wind speed and doesn't have any other days off this week. So he asks what ammo I am using and then proceeds to tell me how I don't want to be shooting 55 gr. ammo in a cross wind. I asked what ammo I should be using given that I didn't have any other ammo what his choice would be, a) 55 gr., b) 55 gr., or c) 55 gr.

He then started in on how my barrel was getting too hot.....

"Why does everyone else know more about what I am doing than I do when they don't know what I am doing?" was what came to mind. The previous week a guy had gone into detail how my rifle wasn't good for what I was doing, but he never asked what I was doing.

So basically, your opening salvo was telling the guy that he didn't know what he was doing. I realize you were tryng to be helpful, but if the guy is shooting crappy groups (and we assume he wants to do better) and is probably frustrated, then your approach likely was seen as nitpicking and rude.

You probably didn't have time to engage the gun in polite conversation so that there could be a two way understanding of information and shared interests. So he just saw you as a know-it-all busy body at a time when he probably wasn't having a good day.



Somebody tell me again why an armed society is supposed to be a polite society.
Click to expand...
I was at the range last weekend, testing a new AR-15 build on the 50-yard line. It was shooting pretty good, so I took a break by standing behind the firing line. The guy in the next spot over was shooting a pre-64 Model 94 in .30-30, and he too stood up to take a break.

I had checked out his target before standing up and noticed that even after firing half a dozen shots, he still didn't have any holes on the paper. When he stood up and turned around, he was shakin his head, and I asked him what was wrong. He was complainging that he ouldn't hit the broad side of a barn and I told him about how I wanted my dad's Model 94 (55 years old and never had a round even chambered in it).

It turns out he'd inherited the gun (and bout a hundred others) from a neighbor who died the month before, he'd brought this one to the range to try it out. I asked him how it was shooting and he said he didn't know because he appeared to not have any hits on the paper. I asked him how he was drawing a bead, and he explained his process. It sounded right, and I just went "Hmmm, it sounds like you're doing it right...", and he asked if I'd like to try it. Of course, I jumped at the chance.

They don't allow offhand shooting at the range (and you have to have your elbows on the table), so I sat down on the bench, chambered a round, aimed, and fired. The first round was dead center and two inches low. He stood there literally mouth open, and I told him I wasn't really paying attention to how he was shooting, but not to use the rest provided by the range. He sat down, and I told him, aim a little about the bull, and he nailed it on the first shot. We the proceded to adjust the sight and he was grouping in 3 inches with iron sights without any effort at all.

You shoulda seen the grin on his face. :)

Days at the range can be fun.
 
It is all going to be in the presentation.

I can think of about 3 times where I have offered unsolicited advice to the guy next to me on a rifle range; it has been well recieved each time so far. I'll only do it if I'm 95%+ sure I know exactly what the problem is. I also attempt to phrase it in a way that doesn't suggest the guy is an idiot. If I'm certain I can help someone, I will offer. I can see how stated the wrong way, the guy having issues could be offended though... just think first, speak second.

If I ever encountered anyone who said or implied anything along the line of "mind your own business", they wouldn't have to ask twice. :rolleyes:
 
I simply mind my own business at the range. If someone likes my shooting and wants advice or some input, they'll ask, they have before. Some interpret unsolicited advice as a statement of their skills. By you offering your advice, it sounds like the guy in question inpreted it as you questioning his ability and basically saying without saying that he needs help.
 
I listen to unasked advice; if it's good I'll take it with a smile; if it's bad I'll ignore it with a smile. The unasked advice I got on muzzleloading (particularly the weight of patch I was using with ball and type of lube) saved me a lot of frustration.

My son takes unasked advice as buttinskiness, usually with ill grace, as in he would rather learn from mistakes himself.
 
Funny thing, we don't actually know that the other fella was shooting poorly, just that the OP feels he was shooting better and wanted to let the other guy, and us, know it.
Now I wasn't there and all, but that's what I get out of this.
 
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