Florida Sheriff's Org fights Open Carry Bill
- Thread starter the_skunk
- Start date
- Status
Texshooter
Member
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2004
- Messages
- 481
I think the second gov't employee is correct about officers drawing down on honest citizens -
especially if they are as stupid as he is.
Rights are not granted by the gov't to the people -
RIGHTS are just that. Nothing to be granted.
especially if they are as stupid as he is.
Rights are not granted by the gov't to the people -
RIGHTS are just that. Nothing to be granted.
Vote them out
You are wasting your time. If you want to change the opinion of the SHERIFFS in FLORIDA, VOTE THEM OUT.
IN FLORIDA, the SHERIFF is usually the highest ranking public official in a county. There are only 67 or so. SO VOTE THEM OUT.
As most, if not all want to keep their jobs, they will change their opinion like all the BLUE DOG Democrats who are openly opposed to the gun control stand of the PRESIDENT and the DEMOCRATIC party.
As for thinking that they will not endorse a policy of bracing armed non-LEO's. You just whistling paste the graveyard. They will order their officers and some of them will start a confrontation. If someone is arrested, it will be the civilian, even if in compliance with the law.
Only if someone is killed, will this be settled rapidly in court and I do not know which way it will go.
Police have already confronted people in open carry states, so what makes you think that it will not happen in FLORIDA. The only way to push the SHERIFFS around is to kick a few out of office. That will change their perception of what they are allowed to do very quickly.
Oh, I am also against open carry. I think it adds to the risk of getting jumped and will add to more bad guys getting their hands on OUR GUNS.
How many of you are going to buy at least a LEVEL II retention holster to open carry? If that and mandatory gun retention classes are not part of an open carry law, I am opposed to it.
Jim
You are wasting your time. If you want to change the opinion of the SHERIFFS in FLORIDA, VOTE THEM OUT.
IN FLORIDA, the SHERIFF is usually the highest ranking public official in a county. There are only 67 or so. SO VOTE THEM OUT.
As most, if not all want to keep their jobs, they will change their opinion like all the BLUE DOG Democrats who are openly opposed to the gun control stand of the PRESIDENT and the DEMOCRATIC party.
As for thinking that they will not endorse a policy of bracing armed non-LEO's. You just whistling paste the graveyard. They will order their officers and some of them will start a confrontation. If someone is arrested, it will be the civilian, even if in compliance with the law.
Only if someone is killed, will this be settled rapidly in court and I do not know which way it will go.
Police have already confronted people in open carry states, so what makes you think that it will not happen in FLORIDA. The only way to push the SHERIFFS around is to kick a few out of office. That will change their perception of what they are allowed to do very quickly.
Oh, I am also against open carry. I think it adds to the risk of getting jumped and will add to more bad guys getting their hands on OUR GUNS.
How many of you are going to buy at least a LEVEL II retention holster to open carry? If that and mandatory gun retention classes are not part of an open carry law, I am opposed to it.
Jim
gatorjames85
Member
Do you also think gun safes should be mandatory and face to face sales should be illegal?
I think anyone who owns a rifle should be able to shoot at the NRA expert level or better. Anyone who owns a handgun should be able to shoot at the IPSC A class/IDPA expert level or better.
The government could manage the training and if you don't pass...
Average Joe
Member
Looks like a sheriff who doesn't want to get re elected ....
Rembrandt
Member
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2003
- Messages
- 4,657
In the perfect world......LEO's protect every citizen from violence, citizens have no need for personal protection firearms. If LEO's show they can't prevent every crime against society, they should be held legally and monetarily liable.
Since we don't live in a perfect world and LEO's can't protect everyone, why would they object to citizens doing the job they can't.
Since we don't live in a perfect world and LEO's can't protect everyone, why would they object to citizens doing the job they can't.
NavyLCDR
member
golden said:
Yep. In the 42 states that allow open carry, the open carriers are a huge source of guns for bad guys. They grab them from open carriers all the time.
NOT.
I challenge you to provide examples where gun grabs happen in reality.
CHEVELLE427
Member
i have no desire to open carry but i do like the idea were if i lift my arm too high and my gun shows and some DA yells he got a gun!!!,
it wont land you in jail.
it wont land you in jail.
What states are those
NAVYLT,
You keep saying that 42 states allow open carry. PLEASE LIST ALL THE STATES THAT ALLOW OPEN CARRY OF:
1. A LOADED FIREARM
2. INSIDE A CITY OR TOWN
3. RIFLES AND SHOTGUNS DON'T COUNT
4. IF ALLOWED ONLY AT A RANGE, ON PRIVATE PROPERTY OR OUTSIDE CITY LIMITS, AGAIN THEY DO NOT COUNT.
FLORIDA is a very populous state, it is not MONTANA, which has less people in the whole state than many FLORIDA CITIES have.
Those are the only states that have any relevance to OPEN CARRY IN FLORIDA.
Also, have you ever taken a gun retention course. If you had, you would not be so eager for OPEN CARRY.
When I went through FLETC, we had one instructor who we were told was going to grab our gun in class. WE KNEW IT WAS COMING AND KNEW WHO WAS GOING FOR THE GUN. HE STILL GOT SOME GUNS!
Police officers get this training and they still get killed with their own guns.
I remember when a POMPANO BEACH Police officer was murdered by a man who got his gun from him. The officer HAD JUST SWITCHED FROM A LEVEL III HOLSTER TO A QUICKER HOLSTER. If he had waited a few weeks, he might still be alive.
I have worked with officers who have lost control of their firearm, only to be saved by another officer. Both were street cops with plenty of experience.
GATORJAMES
I have no problem with face to face sales, but I also used to live in a country where you could not own a handgun and keep it in your house unless you owned a safe.
I did not think it was a bad idea, since so many burglaries are committed by grab and run low life's and juveniles. Neither will spend much time trying to open your safe.
One of my neighbors was robbed in broad daylight (when a lot of break in's occur because no one is home}. The dirt bag went from door to door asking for directions to another street and when he did not get an answer, jimmied the door open.
A neighbor got suspicious and called the police. Stupid was caught walking down the street with a computer tower in his hands!
The state of FLORIDA already has you take a test to carry concealed, do you really think they will not require you to take a test to carry openly?
REMBRANDT,
LEO'S are not here to protect you, they are to enforce the law. Protecting you is a by product.
Jim
NAVYLT,
You keep saying that 42 states allow open carry. PLEASE LIST ALL THE STATES THAT ALLOW OPEN CARRY OF:
1. A LOADED FIREARM
2. INSIDE A CITY OR TOWN
3. RIFLES AND SHOTGUNS DON'T COUNT
4. IF ALLOWED ONLY AT A RANGE, ON PRIVATE PROPERTY OR OUTSIDE CITY LIMITS, AGAIN THEY DO NOT COUNT.
FLORIDA is a very populous state, it is not MONTANA, which has less people in the whole state than many FLORIDA CITIES have.
Those are the only states that have any relevance to OPEN CARRY IN FLORIDA.
Also, have you ever taken a gun retention course. If you had, you would not be so eager for OPEN CARRY.
When I went through FLETC, we had one instructor who we were told was going to grab our gun in class. WE KNEW IT WAS COMING AND KNEW WHO WAS GOING FOR THE GUN. HE STILL GOT SOME GUNS!
Police officers get this training and they still get killed with their own guns.
I remember when a POMPANO BEACH Police officer was murdered by a man who got his gun from him. The officer HAD JUST SWITCHED FROM A LEVEL III HOLSTER TO A QUICKER HOLSTER. If he had waited a few weeks, he might still be alive.
I have worked with officers who have lost control of their firearm, only to be saved by another officer. Both were street cops with plenty of experience.
GATORJAMES
I have no problem with face to face sales, but I also used to live in a country where you could not own a handgun and keep it in your house unless you owned a safe.
I did not think it was a bad idea, since so many burglaries are committed by grab and run low life's and juveniles. Neither will spend much time trying to open your safe.
One of my neighbors was robbed in broad daylight (when a lot of break in's occur because no one is home}. The dirt bag went from door to door asking for directions to another street and when he did not get an answer, jimmied the door open.
A neighbor got suspicious and called the police. Stupid was caught walking down the street with a computer tower in his hands!
The state of FLORIDA already has you take a test to carry concealed, do you really think they will not require you to take a test to carry openly?
REMBRANDT,
LEO'S are not here to protect you, they are to enforce the law. Protecting you is a by product.
Jim
sonick808
Member
wow, what a professional. I cannot freakin believe he would state that publicly. AZ has had open carry for eons. NO DUELS ON MAIN ST. NO BLOOD RUNNING IN THE STREETS. good grief
Deus Machina
Member
Well, guess who's not getting my vote next time.
I can't see myself OCing regularly, but I'm also ten minutes away from the HCSO and have a good lawyer in my speed dial.
Guess who's buying nice leather for the big .357 and making a point.
I can't see myself OCing regularly, but I'm also ten minutes away from the HCSO and have a good lawyer in my speed dial.
Guess who's buying nice leather for the big .357 and making a point.
NavyLCDR
member
golden said:
AL, AK, AZ, CO, CT, DE, GA, HI, ID, IN, IA, KS, KY, LA, ME, MD, MA, MI, MN, MS, MO, MT, NE, NV, NH, NJ, NM, NC, ND, OH, OR, PA, RI, SD, TN, UT, VT, VA, WA, WV, WI, WY.
The states that don't aren't FL, TX, OK, AR, IL, SC, NY, WA DC, and CA. All the rest do, so I am sure I missed some in my "do" list.
It seems more like posturing and intimidation from an older generation that was taught only cops and robbers carry guns. Once the first few lawsuits are brought against the department for violating people's open carry rights they will likely back off and learn to live with people's new found freedom.
I hope the bill passes. Although I choose not to open carry, I do appreciate having the freedom to in case I have a slip and my gun shows.
I hope the bill passes. Although I choose not to open carry, I do appreciate having the freedom to in case I have a slip and my gun shows.
Usmc-1
Member.
Sadly there will always be butt lickers in the leo world , thats what this is , pleasing the higher ups, because every cop Ive ever known or worked with are against legislation thats hurts the citizens rights!
dayid
Member
This is always interesting, since if you go far enough back, only the bad guys carried their guns where they couldn't be seen - and now that's the only thing these folks want.Ben86 said:
I sincerely doubt that most people will strap on a 1911 colt and go parading around the mall. What will happen is people leaving a gun store will have their gun in OC so they don't get robbed.
Most of the OC will just be a store owner walking to his car at night. A lot will be a CC that has his shirt fly open.
And another thing is the bad guys don't open carry. They walk in a store and the gun is under a jacket
Most of the OC will just be a store owner walking to his car at night. A lot will be a CC that has his shirt fly open.
And another thing is the bad guys don't open carry. They walk in a store and the gun is under a jacket
FIVETWOSEVEN
Member
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2009
- Messages
- 5,146
Yeah, Places like Arizona are a real blood bath because of parking spots.
[email protected]
Member
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2010
- Messages
- 839
As a law enforcement officer and in my experiences on the job the sheriff did a poor job explaining what I believe to be his concerns and i did not listen to the whole clip. First off let me say that I support peoples right to own and carry arms. I believe that in todays society people put too much responsibility and faith that the police will be able to protect them and at times we are blamed when somthing bad happens to them. In fact most crimes aginst persons occur without warning and police are reactive to the situation.
Any time I see someone either open carrying,or has a bulge on the waist line or pocket my attention is focused right to them and what are they doing, but I dont over react to the situation. There is no way of telliing if the are legally carring or not until you check.
Just think of this. A citizen calls 911 and tells the dispatcher that a subject just walked into the gas station with a gun and looks suspicous (everyone does to some people) Dispatcher will respond with questions such as what type of gun, the descripition of the suspect, and what is he doing. Over reactive complainant then tells dispatcher that the subject is looking and walking around and that he/she thinks that he may be going to rob the place. (of course this claim is not supported by the subjects activities, but the police dont know that yet). Dispatch gives the call to patrolman that an armed suspect is inside the 7-11 gives the descripition of subject and also relays the info that the complainant stated the the subject is acting suspicious and believes that a robbery is about to occur. Police respond. A response to a robbery call is usually made with blue lights only as not to alarm a robber with the siren. Upon police arrival officers park patrol vehicles a distance from the building for added protection from alarming suspect. At this point it can go several ways. If the complainant is still on the line responding officers can be relayed info as to what is happening. If the business has windows in the right places officers can see inside to determine if anything is happening.
Worse case. Officers cannot see inside, complainant is no longer on line with dispatch. Police response then is to set up a perimeter. The subject in question has no idea of what is unfolding around him and walkes out the building. Police greet him with guns pointed at him after he walks out. ( remember info police have is that the subject acted as though he was going to rob the place and police have no info wheather he did or not). This subject is going to be alarmed, shocked, and confused as to what is happening and what to do and his reaction will determine what police do. Now this subject will not go to jail if he is legal in carrying the gun, but he will be handcuffed until officers determine that nothing happened. Remember that police officers are trained from day one that a subject with a gun is a threat UNTIL the situation is accesed to be otherwise.
Now who is to blame the police, dispatch,subject carring the gun, or the complainant. Remember that police are trained to prepare for worse case and may not have accurate info as to what is happening. If you think that the above cannot happen then you are wrong. From what I watched i think that this is what he was trying to say. I dont like open carry not because of what government might do, but because of what an overreactive person in a panic tells government I am doing somthing.
Any time I see someone either open carrying,or has a bulge on the waist line or pocket my attention is focused right to them and what are they doing, but I dont over react to the situation. There is no way of telliing if the are legally carring or not until you check.
Just think of this. A citizen calls 911 and tells the dispatcher that a subject just walked into the gas station with a gun and looks suspicous (everyone does to some people) Dispatcher will respond with questions such as what type of gun, the descripition of the suspect, and what is he doing. Over reactive complainant then tells dispatcher that the subject is looking and walking around and that he/she thinks that he may be going to rob the place. (of course this claim is not supported by the subjects activities, but the police dont know that yet). Dispatch gives the call to patrolman that an armed suspect is inside the 7-11 gives the descripition of subject and also relays the info that the complainant stated the the subject is acting suspicious and believes that a robbery is about to occur. Police respond. A response to a robbery call is usually made with blue lights only as not to alarm a robber with the siren. Upon police arrival officers park patrol vehicles a distance from the building for added protection from alarming suspect. At this point it can go several ways. If the complainant is still on the line responding officers can be relayed info as to what is happening. If the business has windows in the right places officers can see inside to determine if anything is happening.
Worse case. Officers cannot see inside, complainant is no longer on line with dispatch. Police response then is to set up a perimeter. The subject in question has no idea of what is unfolding around him and walkes out the building. Police greet him with guns pointed at him after he walks out. ( remember info police have is that the subject acted as though he was going to rob the place and police have no info wheather he did or not). This subject is going to be alarmed, shocked, and confused as to what is happening and what to do and his reaction will determine what police do. Now this subject will not go to jail if he is legal in carrying the gun, but he will be handcuffed until officers determine that nothing happened. Remember that police officers are trained from day one that a subject with a gun is a threat UNTIL the situation is accesed to be otherwise.
Now who is to blame the police, dispatch,subject carring the gun, or the complainant. Remember that police are trained to prepare for worse case and may not have accurate info as to what is happening. If you think that the above cannot happen then you are wrong. From what I watched i think that this is what he was trying to say. I dont like open carry not because of what government might do, but because of what an overreactive person in a panic tells government I am doing somthing.
oldbear
Member
Neither am I, I don't believe it's dumb though. I do believe that it's a sad state of affairs that any elected officer would chose to intimidate any law abiding citizen just because the official does not support a law.
gatorjames85
Member
My point was to show that the powers-that-be could justify all kinds of restrictions in the name of "keeping guns out of the hands of criminals." In fact, I believe this is one of the anti-gun crowd's arguments for keeping guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens.
oneounceload
member
One of the largest voting demographics are the "soccer moms" who tend to vote liberal views when it comes to guns. They see folks carrying openly and they start to panic. Don't think so? Go read some of the liberal forums. We need these folks on our side not fighting against us. As to the yahoos, I stopped going to public indoor ranges here in Florida BECAUSE of that type - all flash, no maturity, etc. They will become our worst nightmare on this issue, not our allies.
If you want to OC, go ahead. I DO agree that an inadvertent showing (such as bending over), is NOT brandishing and should be changed
NavyLCDR
member
oneounceload,
Spoken as a true Floridian against open carry!
The soccer moms have not had any law changing abilities in the 42 states where people are allowed to open carry.
Spoken as a true Floridian against open carry!
The soccer moms have not had any law changing abilities in the 42 states where people are allowed to open carry.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked