Mossberg Just in Case at the Range

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Jim NE - how is blasting random stuff (safely of course) not recreational?
Yesterday my brother and I used a .38 Special revolver and a 10/22 to ventilate cans. This kind of thing is what our guns see the most of.
This is one thing I can see a PG shotgun being entirely adequate for! Add a couple boxes of low brass birdshot and some gallon jugs to roll around against the backstop and you'd have the makings for one hell of a good time!
 
Your coming dangerously close to saying because YOU don't see a legitimate use, I don't need one...... your starting to make the hair stand up on the back of my 2nd amendment there Sarah.
 
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I am sure the head marketing genius at Mossberg is enjoying this thread while the design engineers just endure their daily plight.
Six whole pages dedicated to the PGO.
 
Six pages and no one's come up with a use where a PGO makes any kind of sense besides door breaching, and a PGO only makes sense there because swat teams think they have to be right on top of the door to breach.
 
RugerMcMarlin said:
Your coming dangerously close to saying because YOU don't see a legitimate use, I don't need one...... your starting to make the hair stand up on the back of my 2nd amendment there Sarah. .
Good grief. No one is saying that at all. (And remember, insults get negative attention here.)

You're mixing a practicality argument with a rights argument, and that's a non-starter.

You have the right to own just about whatever gun you want. (Some you've got to jump through a few hoops for, but still...)

We should be able to hold a legitimate discussion of utility or practicality without worrying that we've stepped on someone's rights.

Suggesting that there is little serious utility in an item does not threaten your desire to have one or your right to own one.

As others have said, it is a bill of RIGHTS not a bill of NEEDS.

Your right to own a .50 BMG derringer is not in any way imperiled by a discussion among serious-minded gun folks of what it might be good for.

Anyone who says, "I want a pistol-gripped shotgun to blast away at things and make a lot of noise" is going to get no argument here. Someone who says, "I believe a pistol-only-gripped shotgun is an optimal choice for self-defense," probably will. Neither suggestion, nor responses in support or opposition to those premises have any bearing on your rights to own one or the legitimacy of your desire to do so.
 
PGO only makes sense there because swat teams think they have to be right on top of the door to breach.

That makes some sense, though. A breeching round, even with the proper sintered breeching slugs, does present a danger to anyone on the other side of that door, or in the room beyond. Being "right on top of" the door knob lets the breacher angle his shot so that any slug or lock or door fragments head down toward the floor where they're least likely to harm anyone inside.

Even if those inside are not innocent or "friendly," law enforcement types frown on endangering anyone blindly.
 
Someone who says, "I believe a pistol-only-gripped shotgun is an optimal choice for self-defense," probably will.

I don't recall anyone saying that, though. The problem is the moment you mention that a PGO shotgun *may* just be adequate you receive the same negative attention.
 
Jim NE - how is blasting random stuff (safely of course) not recreational?
Yesterday my brother and I used a .38 Special revolver and a 10/22 to ventilate cans. This kind of thing is what our guns see the most of.
This is one thing I can see a PG shotgun being entirely adequate for! Add a couple boxes of low brass birdshot and some gallon jugs to roll around against the backstop and you'd have the makings for one hell of a good time!

Goon, I included plinking on my list of what I find recreational, and it sounds like that's what you and your brother were doing with the .38 and the rifle and the tin cans the other day. The reason I wouldn't own a pistol grip shotgun for recreational use is that I can't think of any shooting activity that would be very challenging with one of them. They're designed to hit everything. I'm not saying they don't have a well deserved place for self defense...it's just that even if I buy a gun for self defense, I ALSO want to go out and have fun with it in a way that hones my shooting skills.

If it were a hunting shotgun, I could shoot blue rock with it or go after pheasant. Even snubnose revolvers are fun to target shoot with, IMO. I guess you could shoot blue rock with a pistol grip...for some reason it doesn't sound like something I'd enjoy. Maybe there are some combat shooting events for SD shotguns...that might be OK.


But you're right, I'm kind of imposing my idea of legitimate recreation on others:) to each their own
 
"...they have almost zero recreational value..." after 12 Pages of they have no practical value and are darn near useless.

" I distinctly remember, " I don't see Legitimate Sporting Use for AR-15s, AK-47s,Semi-auto weapons of any kind" arguments used by legislators in several states, mostly California, Same arguement" No legitimate use" outlawed .50 BMG in California, all used by anti-gunners, all flawed arguments , but no less effective. Several times I have heard on almost all of these blogs not to give the ANTIs any material to work with. I think we can just about guarantee, being quoted out of contest. I don't intend not agreeing with you to be insulting. and Close to and Same as, are not the same.


And I suggest Skeet would be rather challenging, some would say impossible.
 
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And I suggest Skeet would be rather challenging, some would say impossible.
Just to prove I have a hard time arguing any case from only one point of view...

I've done it. I've shot skeet with a PGO 12 ga. Mossberg 500 years ago when I first got mine. I even hit some. Had to do it with it up in front of my face ... after carefully reading the "DON'T DO THIS" section of the manual to make sure I was (er...wasn't) doing it right.

Hilarious, huge waste of ammo, big dumb grin. :)
 
Ruger, the reason I mentioned your post is because I could just see a couple of drunk 19 year olds going out and trying to shoot ejected shells before they hit the ground. That qualifies as a stunt, and potentially a dangerous one. ANd no, I'm not going to try to pass a law banning it.
 
Your coming dangerously close to saying because YOU don't see a legitimate use, I don't need one...... your starting to make the hair stand up on the back of my 2nd amendment there Sarah.

I will defend to the death your right to own absurd guns. Pointing out the many legitimate reasons for why a PGO shotgun is a tremendously non-optimal weapon for serious self-defense doesn't make me an anti.

TL;DR version:
Stop hitting that straw man, he never did anything to you.
 
At minute of room ranges it'll hardly matter and I can almost guarantee anybody who can competently handle a shotgun will have no problem keeping a pistol grip shotty on target for rapid follow-up shots. I kept my shotty in both configs and I'd rather play room clearing hero* in pistol grip than full on stock. Simply put, at those ranges it simply won't matter beyond personal preference IMHO.

Have you actually put this to the test with a shot timer? What evidence do you have that it won't make a difference?

Do you have a methodology down that allows you to run* a PGO shotgun as fast or faster than a similar gun with a stock?


*Cycling the action, transitioning to targets, and/or using the gun from improvised positions that don't involve standing up?
 
I don't think I was talking to you at all. And if it's not a "serious choice for self defense," I'll just have to try not to giggle when I use it.
 
Do you have a methodology down that allows you to run* a PGO shotgun as fast or faster than a similar gun with a stock?


*Cycling the action, transitioning to targets, and/or using the gun from improvised positions that don't involve standing up?

Of course I don't. No one does.

I take a different view of the PGO gun to the view held by some here. As noted above, it is not a promising alternative to the shotgun with a proper stock on it. It is an alternative to having no shotgun.

So no one is confused, my shotgun is currently wearing a conventional wooden buttstock and rubber pad; the pistol grip is in the parts box. Absent the need for maximum compactness, why fool with the pistol grip? I got involved with it when doing a lot of traveling in mixed modes of transportation that included passing through a pistol-hostile jurisdiction. I don't know that the PGO was the best answer, but it was the best I could think of at the time*.

If this were the gun you had, how would you best use it? How would you get the most out of it? That was my question, and not, 'how can I run this thing just as well as a whole shotgun?' For of course it isn't a whole shotgun; part of it is missing. The butt is missing from the grip area on back, making it half-butted, so to speak. ;)

I hope everyone sees the apple and the orange.

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* Something I didn't think of at the time was the nifty Beretta Companion folding shotgun. I probably did not think of it because it was a single shot. The High Standard bullpup was discontinued and there were reported reliability issues and anyway, I couldn't find one.

Some sort of bullpup is probably the best answer here, but those I've seen so far have been heavy or bulky or generally awful in other ways. There are, though, some promised for future release. We shall see.
 
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My response to this problem was an H&R topper in 20 gauge with the barrel chopped off at 20", a buttcuff, recoil pad and a choate thumbscrew forend installed.

It breaks down very small and still has enough juju for most any purpose.
 
I use a PGO Mossberg and have for years.
I make no claims to the PGO being "optimal" for SD use, but I do make the claim that they are suitable for close range SD.
...and, IMHO, if a team member of a swat or military unit is carrying a PGO for breaching and dosnt carry a pouch of OO buck and have the experience to use it, they are wasting a valuable defensive resource.
 
aM Hav nig trouwble writttting this do to str0k. di d u say 20 single sh t addyquat for defennse?.....................NNNNNN pgo don brak dowwwwwwwwwwwwwn smal is smal!!!

I'm confident in my ability to make things die with my 20 gauge with Ghost rings. I'm also apparently less susceptable to stroke than a PGO user, so i got that going for me.
 
These threads always devolve into the 'it's not optimal' arguement. Of course it's not optimal! It's a compromise that sacrifices some accuracy for the benefit of better storage characteristics. My daily carry pistol is far from 'optimal', due in part to its' lack of a stock. It certainly is more concealable than a shotgun (even a PGO), and although it lacks the punch of a 12ga (or even a 20, which logic would dictate is 'less than optimal'), I think I'll settle for all it. Even if it is 'less than optimal'. :rolleyes:
 
Speaking of fun and earlier on a commentary about "bird shot" from a shotgun of length or short for PD...

There was cable TV show last night, personal protection TV or some such cable show where-in bird shot was one item put forth showing its penetration power. It went through dry wall, a padded chair, but most impressive from 10 yards perhaps it penetrated a refrigerator freezer door, but stopped there in the box. Hence a PGO putting forth round one with birdshot would be quite impressive to someone on receiving end. I have never gone to the junkyard with a 12 gauge. Guess I'll have to go over to the Box O Truth and get my memory refreshed.
 
These threads always devolve into the 'it's not optimal' arguement. Of course it's not optimal! It's a compromise that sacrifices some accuracy for the benefit of better storage characteristics. My daily carry pistol is far from 'optimal', due in part to its' lack of a stock. It certainly is more concealable than a shotgun (even a PGO), and although it lacks the punch of a 12ga (or even a 20, which logic would dictate is 'less than optimal'), I think I'll settle for all it. Even if it is 'less than optimal'. :rolleyes:


My argument is that i have found no role the PGO fills where another item would not work better. There are folding stocks available for most pumpguns, and doubles and singles break down into a smaller package for storage.

A pistol is optimised for its role, where that role is concealed carry. it has to be concealable to work at all.

I have a thread set aside, asking for use cases. no one has responded with a use case for the PGO as of this post.
 
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