Should rule two be revised or reworded?

I teach - "Always point the muzzle in the direction of least danger and risk."

Why? Because, with few exceptions, whenever you handle a firearm you cannot help to point it at something you do not intend to destroy or damage, therefore you point it in the safest direction given your immediate circumstances.

Seems like there are a lot of budding lawyers and politicians posting on this one with all the nit pickin over every single word. The rules seem pretty clear, and perhaps anyone that can't understand the meaning of them shouldn't be handling a weapon in the first place. Seems like they're reading "the rules" the same way some of the politicos read the second amendment. Clear and simple just ain't good enough for some folks. (too much 'book readin knowledge' and not enough common sense)
But pay no attention to me, I have no opinion. lol

Rifleman used to run this, or perhaps it was in an ad by one of the mfg's. Anyhow, this fellow pretty well nailed it - in 1902. Not a stretch to get from this to the 4-Rules. (Apologies if someone posted it earlier).

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If a sportsman true you'd be
Listen carefully to me. . .

Never, never let your gun
Pointed be at anyone.
That it may unloaded be
Matters not the least to me.

When a hedge or fence you cross
Though of time it cause a loss
From your gun the cartridge take
For the greater safety's sake.

If twixt you and neighbouring gun
Bird shall fly or beast may run
Let this maxim ere be thine
"Follow not across the line."

Stops and beaters oft unseen
Lurk behind some leafy screen.
Calm and steady always be
"Never shoot where you can't see."


You may kill or you may miss
But at all times think this:
"All the pheasants ever bred
Won't repay for one man dead."

Mark Beaufoy - 1902

It's very easy to get overly pedantic about literally interpreting the rules of safe gun handling.

The bottom line is this:

The four rules are written as they are in order to be short, succinct, and indelible in your mind.

Do you have to bend or violate those rules in order to do things like holster a gun, dry fire, or clean it?

Yes.

But if those rules are in the forefront of your brain while engaging in those activities, you are going to be much more mindful of what you're doing, and ensure that you are indeed doing the correct thing.

If you're going to find a way to improve the four rules, do it by finding a way to make them even shorter and more memorable while imbuing them with even more meaning rather than going "I have to points ma gun at the wall and I don't want to shoot that HURRRRRRR."

I don't think rule 2 is worded very well. Everyone who does dry firing, and practices drawing at home points the muzzle at a lot of things we are not willing to destroy.

Regards,
Jerry

I liked Cooper. I liked the way he pontificated. His four rules are great. I didn't find them "user friendly" enough when teaching kids in hunter safety classes. For that application and for my own kids, I modified the rules thusly:

1. Treat every gun as if it's loaded.
2. Keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.
3. Keep your finger off the triger until your sights are on the target.
4. Be sure of your target and what's beyond it.

I could introduce you to a lot of young people who can recite this version of the four rules. Same content as Cooper's; just not as polemical.

no. the rule is good as is. it makes you decide what you are willing and not willing to destroy. remember, the weapon is always loaded. since the weapon can discharge at any time, and usually destroys anything in front of it, you are bound by this rule of safety (and common sense) to cover only those things you are willing to destroy.

these four rules are really basic principals of firearm safety. they should be memorized and repeated every day, like we used to repeat the pledge of allegiance in school. we need to have these principals branded into our subconscious so we don't have to think about them, we will already know them when dealing with firearms.

i'll get off my soapbox now!

murf

Do you have to bend or violate those rules in order to do things like holster a gun, dry fire, or clean it?

Yes.

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You aren't defining a rule but a suggestion. If you have a rule you knowingly and willingly violate then it isn't a rule at all, but merely a strong suggestion. That's why Rule 1 is "Treat all guns as though they are loaded until you have positively verified it is not. You still don't point it at anyone because of Rule 2. If you have half an ounce of common sense you re-verify it every time the gun leaves your hand and you pick it back up.

But to answer the OP's question, the "four rules" are actually "the four rules for handling firearms". Like Rule 1, it was shortened so that people of weak intellect could remember it.

There are a lot of paradigms when it comes to safely handling a firearm, unfortunately those paradigms have slipped to the point that nobody is willing to think for themselves. All anyone knows anymore are sound bites. "All guns are always loaded." "But what about the time you were dry firing it dad?" "Well son, daddy doesn't have to follow the rules, but you do."

since the weapon can discharge at any time...

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If this were actually true, or even possible, I wouldn't own a gun at all.

Here is the only change I would make:

1. Treat every gun as if it's loaded.
2. Keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.
3. Keep your finger outside the trigger guard until your sights are on the target.
4. Be sure of your target and what's beyond it.

The reason I suggest this is because I feel to new shooters is a much more clear way of saying "off the trigger". I came to this conclusion after spending a weekend being RSO for cub scouts (BB Guns), many of whom had never shot before. I decided that in the trigger guard behind the trigger, and any other variations of "off-trigger" didn't qualify as far as I was concerned.

Oh and on the topic of rule 2, I usually use my Television for dry-fire practice because it has a tiny LED on it that makes for a good target. I am not willing to destroy it because it costs too much but then I guess it's not too much harm done if it doesn't happen to become inoperable.

3. Keep your finger off the triger until your sights are on the target.

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But what about when I point shoot?

I started this thread and I hope this ends it.

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The Mods may hear you soon.

since the weapon can discharge at any time, and usually destroys anything in front of it, you are bound by this rule of safety (and common sense) to cover only those things you are willing to destroy.

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How about those gun owners that live in apartment buildings or condos, where they're literally surrounded by neighbors upstairs, downstairs, next door, and across the hall? Which neighbor or neighbor's property should a gun owner be "willing to destroy" in the event of an ND or AD whenever he/she handles a firearm?

There is nothing in my home or vehicle that I am willing to "distroy" or even put a hole in.

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If you dry fire, you have made a purposeful decision about what you're willing to destroy in the event of a negligent discharge.

Dry fire at the TV?

You have made a choice to destroy that television in case you ever ND. I rather like my 50 inch plasma, and couldn't afford to replace it, so I don't dry fire at it.

For this reason, I prefer to dry fire in my basement, facing a wall that doesn't have anything hanging on it. In the event that I screw up and have an ND, that wall will get a hole, but the round will be safely contained.

The four rules are all about indelibly instilling proper behavior, not splitting semantic hairs.

If this were actually true, or even possible, I wouldn't own a gun at all.

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It is true, insofar as a tremendous number of negligent discharges with tragic outcomes are the result of someone screwing around with a gun that, after the event, they swear up and down was not loaded. If you assume the weapon is loaded at all times, you have prepped yourself for the worst case, and hopefully engaged in behavior that will help to mitigate that worst case if it ever comes to pass.

3. Keep your finger outside the trigger guard until your sights are on the target.

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This is probably a good suggestion, actually. Rather than telling the shooter what not to do, which can lead them to fixating on "trigger" you're telling them what the actual proper behavior should be.

One of the things that has always stuck with me from reading Lanny Basham's book is that the mind doesn't see a negative, and will tend to fixate on the x when told "don't engage in x behavior." His suggestion is that you should always phrase things so that you are told what the proper behavior is, which gives your mind something positive to fixate on.

How about those gun owners that live in apartment buildings or condos, where they're literally surrounded by neighbors upstairs, downstairs, next door, and across the hall? Which neighbor or neighbor's property should a gun owner be "willing to destroy" in the event of an ND or AD whenever he/she handles a firearm?

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That's a choice that a person in that situation has to make, and it would behoove them to put some serious thought into just exactly what they're willing to do to mitigate tragedy in the event of an ND.

How about those gun owners that live in apartment buildings or condos, where they're literally surrounded by neighbors upstairs, downstairs, next door, and across the hall? Which neighbor or neighbor's property should a gun owner be "willing to destroy" in the event of an ND or AD whenever he/she handles a firearm?

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The Cornered Cat has some good advice about that. The end of a bookshelf full of books, a bucket of sand, a stack of phone books or magazines, etc.

You should be able to think something up that would work. There is no excuse not to.

I add a rule five.

"Go be a pedant somewhere else."

I think the 4 rules we used in the Marines were simple and effective. We recited them every day when we went to the range before we were given our ammunition.

NAVMC 42 (Rev. 11-06)

Safety Rules

1. Treat every weapon as if it were loaded.
2. Never point a weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot.
3. Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire.
4. Keep weapon on safe until you intend to fire.

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I'm not going to address all "what if" scenarios. I'll just state this to cover them all. The 4 rules are written so that as long as any 1 rule is followed there is a very low probability of having an accident even if the other 3 are broken simultaneously. Not saying it isn't possible, too many creative "what if" scenarios people can think of to say that, but if you try your best to follow all 4 and you are physically unable to follow one of them. For example in the apartment building scenario, rule number 2 is very hard to follow, but the other 3 are still a very good defense against accidents reducing them to a very low possibility of happening. I'd go as far as to say you would be more likely to cause an accident on the interstate than have an incident in that scenario. That's just conjecture though.

since the weapon can discharge at any time...

Mainsail said:

If this were actually true, or even possible, I wouldn't own a gun at all.

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Justin, the point I was responding to is the idea that cartridges can spontaneously combust and a weapon can ‘discharge at any time’. That is nonsense. The rules apply to the handling of firearms, not storage or holstered carry.

Like Rule 1, it was shortened so that people of weak intellect could remember it.

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Are there a lot of cases in which somebody who was abiding by the 4 rules as they stand today, followed all 4 and still had a negligent discharge that resulted in the life or injury of another human being? If not, we're arguing the semantics of a system that is achieving its objective. Is this something that we want to do to protect our rights? Protect human life? It seems to work as is.

I will take the lesser of two evils and point my pistol at the wall or floor before I point it at my foot or my wife.

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That's a reasonable interpretation of that rule. If you aren't comfortable shooting at it, don't point at it. Whether it be a 50" plasma screen TV or your wife, or your foot, simply don't take a chance with it. If me putting a hole in my sheet rock, or risking shooting and hitting a neighbor in a surrounding townhouse are things that I cannot live with, then perhaps I shouldn't point a gun at it.

That's why Rule 1 is "Treat all guns as though they are loaded until you have positively verified it is not.

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If you are on the range and you verify that your weapon is "unloaded" you are still the only person that can or has verified that. If you approach someone in the woods coming back from a hunting trip with an "unloaded" weapon it is still loaded to them. To anyone else, it IS a loaded weapon because they have not verified it. Would you trust me if I pointed a weapon at you telling you that the gun is unloaded? There's absolutely nothing wrong with rule 1. We're using precautions that are there to assume the highest level of danger or threat.

How many NDs were there last year? How many were with an "unloaded gun?" No offense to anyone that lost someone, but from the casualties that I personally know of, the "unloaded gun" accounted for more than a small percentage. If we had reworded the first, second, or any rule, would it have saved them or would it have still been disregarded?

The most dangerous gun is an "unloaded gun."