How dangerous is a chambered Kahr to a gun with safety? CCW.

I carry a Kahr P9. It's always in a holster -- either a FIST kydex pocket holster or a Milt Sparks IWB leather holster. No concerns.

I understand the trigger, but what do you mean "ergos"?

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The ergos (ergonomics) when speaking of guns refers to how well it fits your hand. This varies from person to person, as hands are shaped differently after all. The Kahr CW9 (and kahrs in general) have great ergos. I find the grip to fill my palm just enough and the angle to be just right.

There isn't anything I can add to this discussion, but that has never stopped me before, so why start now? I carry a Glock 27 in a leather Blackhawk IWB holster in the Apex position. I also carry a Taurus TCP in a Nylon Blackhawk holster in my front pocket. Both guns have one in the pipe and both are pretty much aimed at the most treasured appendage on my body. I was a little leary at first, but after a week or two I never gave it another thought. BUT there is an extra incentive to be safe when the guns are aimed where they could do instant sex change surgery. (Bang, you're an it ) A gun is only as safe as you are. If you want to learn how to be safe with your gun, just aim it at your crotch all day. I guarantee you that you will find a way to keep your finger off that trigger.

Inebriated said:

Booger hook off the bang switch.

Every firearm should be carried in a proper holster... With a good holster, that trigger will never be pulled. And if you exercise basic gun-handling, you'll never touch the trigger.

I don't like safeties on defensive handguns, and feel 100% safe carrying a gun with out a physical safety.

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100% correct imo.

I pocket carry a Kahr PM9 every day in a DeSantis Nemisis Holster

The gun always has a live round chambered. The key to gun safety is the operator. Always carry in a holster that covers the trigger and keep your fingor off the trigger until ready to fire. An external safety will not protect from careless handling of a firearm.

Bam, good answer for those who are Delta Force-level operators or their equivalent in skill and in assumption of risk. Perhaps not a sufficient answer for the layperson and those surrounded by them.

Orion8472 said:

But, I believe that the operator of any gun is the best safety. Be smart and there should never be a problem.

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Same is true with cars. But there are many accidents every day. We don't say "my driving skills are my seat belt" and rip those out of cars, do we?

Just playing devils' advocate a bit here. But just as I buckle up every time I get behind the wheel, despite my intention to (and record of) driving safely, I only buy guns with either external safeties or with long, delibate trigger pulls (wheelguns). Others can make their own choices.

I carry this one and it has a safety....



I carry this on and it has a safety...



Carry this one with a safety.....

ATLDave said:

Bam, good answer for those who are Delta Force-level operators or their equivalent in skill and in assumption of risk. Perhaps not a sufficient answer for the layperson and those surrounded by them.

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You don't have to be special forces to have COMMON SENSE.

I have carried the last 10 years round chambered, safety off without a single un intentional discharge and special training had nothing to do with it.

BamAlmighty said:

You don't have to be special forces to have COMMON SENSE.

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And you don't have to be some sort of imbecile to have ever done something less-than-brilliant, or to have had a moment of fumble-fingered imperfection. You've never done something that, looking back, was a violation of "COMMON SENSE"?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that a no-safety gun is necessarily a bad choice. Just recognize that you're working without a net, and doing so by choice. I'll take the net, personally.

Orion8472 said:

I like the seatbelt thing, but though I wear mine all the time, it is more about the other driver. The gun thing is all about me and my ability to keep smart for my own safety. Finger off the trigger and taking special care when holstering.

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The only instance where a seatbelt came into play for me was a result of another driver. But I still wear mine on deserted road where I'm the only car around. Anyone can have a momentary lapse. Keep the car between the ditches. But wear a seat belt in case you don't. Keep your finger (and any other object that could pull it) off the trigger. But consider a safety, or at least a long heavy pull, in case you don't?

ATLDave said:

But consider a safety, or at least a long heavy pull, in case you don't?

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I've gotta ask, have you ever shot a Kahr? It IS a long, relatively heavy pull.

Scimmia, I have never shot a Kahr. I haven't really been trying to argue against Kahr's, just playing devil's advocate in favor of the OP's brother, and responding to the glib "my finger is my safety" stuff. My point is that it's easy to say "don't make a mistake and there won't be a problem," but mistakes are made every day.

For my guns, I either want the mistake to be very difficult to make (long, heavy pull as in a revolver) or multiple mistakes to be made (safety switched off, trigger pulled). I don't think having those preferences makes me a sissy, nor do I think they are an implicit admission of incompetence.

That's cool, Orion. Everybody has to make their own decisions as to the risks. I was just trying to point out that the brother in the OP was hardly being crazy or speaking without basis. Forgoing an external safety does remove one barrier to an ND. Is it the only barrier? Nope. But you're removing one.

As for the poll, I doubt that many/any of the people who had a no-safety ND are posting here today. They might be in jail, they might have sworn off guns, they might have lost their rights to own guns, they might have sold them all to pay a judgment in a lawsuit... No harm in asking, but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence in this case.

Opinionated, illogical, biased,

and admitedly ignorant, I don't have any reservations about IWB access for most platforms.

I just can't warm up to a 'safe action' system where the 'safety' in in the face of the trigger. The G 36 is fun to mess around with, but its kinda doubtful that I'll ever get all warm and fuzzy with IWB/pocket carry with it.

We all have preconceived notions about stuff. I guess thats one of mine.

salty

It is difficult for me to see how one could pull the trigger of a Kahr any way other than purposely.

Most of the nd's I've read about on here happened because the operator forgot the gun was loaded. I don't see too many cases of the trigger catching on something and being pulled all the way. It does happen without a good holster. in the one incident where some guy posted on here about his glock nd. He had a complete crap holster that he shouldn't have been using.

As for the poll, I doubt that many/any of the people who had a no-safety ND are posting here today. They might be in jail, they might have sworn off guns, they might have lost their rights to own guns, they might have sold them all to pay a judgment in a lawsuit.

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So when did you stop beating your wife sir? So anybody that disagrees with you is either wrong, embarrassed to admit their ND, in jail, sworn off guns, lost their rights to own them or sold all their guns to cover a law suit.

No harm in asking, but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence in this case.

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Well now that's a strong argument.

Whatever you choose to carry practice practice practice.

Not at all, franco. Not even close. I freely acknowledge that many people who disagree with me on this point are ND-free. My point was solely that, when the poll results come back that 50 THR'ers carry a no-safety gun and haven't had an ND, that's not very good evidence that there aren't NDs with no-safety guns. It would merely reflect selection bias in the sample.

The "what if" of a manual safety and fumbling it during a highly stressful situation.

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It really doesn't make much difference if its a manual safety or not. If you want to use a manual safety, then you need to practice with it all the time. Just like a new gun or a new car, you need to learn how it works.

Also by practicing, drawing from the holster and having to unengaged the safety so it is first nature and it becomes a habit. If the only time you disengage the safety is the one time when you start shooting at the range and do not engage the safety when you holster, your defeating the purpose.

During a hi-stress situation , you are not going to have time to think. You will react like what you do in training. Practice, practice drawing and disengage the safety.

Good luck