How dangerous is a chambered Kahr to a gun with safety? CCW.

[Scimmia]

Other than a revolver, I wouldn't have a pistol on the place without a safety!

I think this statement sums it up well. People seem to be OK with DA revolvers not having an external safety, but have a problem with a DAO pistol not having one? This is probably where your brother is coming from. IMO, the Kahr is just as safe as a DA revolver, and maybe even more safe than a Glock, which thousands upon thousands of people carry.

True, the Kahr has a lighter trigger than most DA revolvers, but the Glocks are quite a bit lighter than a Kahr and have a much shorter pull length.

 

[ATLDave]

The question is how many discreet decisions/actions do you want to have to take before the gun goes bang? Some people want to only have to take two - draw and pull the trigger. Some people want a third step in between those two; those people either carry unchambered or use guns with an external safety. There are valid reasons to have either preference. (And some people use a long and heavy trigger pull as a way to make the two-step process more deliberate.)

Are you increasing the chances of an ND/AD by not having a third step? I think you are. Are you also increasing the chances that the gun will not go bang quite as quickly as you want? Equally, yes. Pick your poison.

 

[MCgunner]

I don't like short, light triggers for pocket carry in a soft pocket holster. I don't know about Kahr. The ONE Kahr I've tried was short and light and no safety, the K9, but that's not a pocket gun, anyway. I'd carry it as with a Glock, in a STIFF belt holster that completely covers the trigger.

Personally, I carry mostly a Kel Tec P11 in a number 4 Blackhawk pocket holster which also fits my snubby I often carry. It has no safety, but it has a proper DA trigger. And, please, if you don't like the P11s trigger, don't tell me I can't hit anything with it. I'd be glad to prove it to you if you lived near my range. I'm quite accurate with it. All it takes is practice, as with any revolver DA. If you aren't willing to do the practice and training, you probably don't need to be carrying a gun. I consider a gun as a knife or fists, requires training and practice or you're more apt to get yourself killed with it than not.

I don't care for single action guns with safeties because I carry revolvers a lot. I like revolvers. I wanna keep my practice and carry with the same sort of trigger, long DA pull, draw and fire, no safeties. I think keeping the practice to one type of trigger is important because when the SHTF, you're going to be running on your muscle memory and training. You ain't got time to think which gun you have and whether it has a safety. JMHO, though.

 

[JustSomeDude]

The safety issue has been sufficiently dealt with here, I think. In the end, you have to make your own decision, but there are a couple of points I want to mention:

1.) The magazines can be made to drop free

2.) Try before you buy if possible. The trigger is VERY different from the 1911 you are used to, and some people can't get past it. Better to figure that out with range time fees rather than purchasing the gun and deciding you can't live with the trigger.

 

[Skribs]

In a DAO/striker-fired system, you don't need a manual safety. I have 4 handguns, a pair of Springfield XDm, a Ruger LCP, and a Ruger SP101. NONE of these have a manual safety. All but the newer XDm (so 3 of my handguns) I keep loaded 99% of the time (except when cleaning) with 1 in the chambered (well, 5 chambered in the SP101) and none of them have fired unless I pull the trigger.

I'd go with a Ruger LCP or LC9 over the Kahr, personally (half the price and Rugers are nice guns), but if you get the Kahr and keep one in the pipe, you'll be just fine.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

I've got to say, this is the first I've heard of this about a Kahr.

It is as safe as you are. You have to pull the trigger with about 7 lbs. of pressure, through nearly a three-quarter-inch arc. Don't pull the trigger when you aren't supposed to, and it will be fine.

 

[Ben86]

my brother thinks it is a bad idea to get the kahr because it has no safety on it, . . . and could promote an accidental discharge far more easily than a gun with a safety. What is your feelings on this matter? For me, I think of it as, . . . the gun is as safe as you are with it. It won't discharge on its own.

Does your brother also think this about DA revolvers?

The Kahr is a DAO pistol with a long weighty (but very nice and smooth) trigger pull. As long as you practice proper trigger discipline and carry it in a holster that protects the trigger you should be fine. I have a Kahr pm9 and carry it this way.

 

[Skribs]

The way I see it, it just goes to show that an uneducated snaggle-tooth hillbilly can learn the safety rules. I think you're overthinking (pun intended) the saying. Smart people can use stupid words, too.

What's worse than a dumb person using dumb words? A dumb person using smart words and making a total jerk of themselves.

 

[DeepSouth]

I have a KAHR, carry it everyday in my pocket. It has never gone off without the trigger being pulled, that's pretty safe. Keep your finger out of the trigger guard and it want go off.

 

[27hand]

Kahr vs safety

I will not carry a gun with an external safety.
There is no need if you train well and often.

My daily carry guns happen to be Glock and Kahr

27

 

[AJChenMPH]

For what it's worth, I currently have a S&W 6906 on my hip with the safety off. I've never had a problem with my PM9, nor my Glock 26.

 

[Sgt_R]

I have a Kahr P380 in a Desantis Superfly in my left front pocket. It is loaded and there is a round chambered. I carry it this way everywhere I can legally carry.

I dislike manual safeties on handguns, and none of my handguns have one. I always carry with a round in the chamber. If I thought it was unsafe to carry the Kahr that way, I wouldn't own one.

R

 

[1911Tuner]

Let's not fight, gents. It's just the internet. I get a little bent when I hear "Shotty" and Remmy" myself...but it ain't worth spikin' my blood pressure over.

No loaded gun can ever be 100% safe. It's statistically impossible.

Pulling the trigger makes the gun fire. If you don't want it to fire...don't pull the trigger.

Be careful when reholstering that the trigger doesn't become entangled in an article of clothing, and be absolutely sure that your finger isn't in the trigger guard. That's why the US Cavalry asked Browning for a manual safety. Quick draw is sometimes necessary. Quick reholstering...not so much...unless you're charging into battle on top of a bucking, terrified horse.

Bottom line: Stay focused on what you're doing and be careful.

Is gun. Gun not safe. (Did I mention being careful?)

 

[Orion8472]

Well, thanks for the input. My point of view is, . . . with proper handling, any gun will be safe. I have a holster for my current carry [the EMP]. I put the EMP in the holster [after making sure it was unloaded] to see if the relatively soft leather magazine could actuate the trigger by pressing on the outside of the holster. After the test, I'm certain that this magazine would be a good choice for a CW9. So, I believe that I would still like to sell the EMP in order fo fund the lighter/thinner CW9. I prefer having a "one less step" type of carry gun and the CW9 is my first choice, due to the way it feels, quality of the trigger, and how low it sits in my hand. ALSO, due to the materials used in the CW9, there is far less probability of scratching/wear marks! Very important!!!

Seriously though, thanks for the input guys. If you have more to say, please do.

 

[harmon rabb]

The only thing I can add to this is that MOST people will shoot an EMP *much* better than a Kahr due to the 1911 trigger and ergos. I carry a Kahr CM9 to work, and an EMP outside of work. My choice of which I'd rather have with me if something bad went down isn't even a contest -- the EMP all day long, and twice on sunday. I'm very good with my EMP; you really don't want to try to mug me if I have it on me. The Kahr.... eh. If you're close to me, I'll hit you, but under stress and at a distance, I worry about making the shot with it.

 

[Orion8472]

I understand the trigger, but what do you mean "ergos"?

Where it is true that the EMP has a trigger that would prove a better candidate for accurate shooting, in a stress situation, few will have the time or the mental ability to make the accurate shot. As for ergos, I find the Kahr to be much more comfortable to hold.

 

[1911Tuner]

Some of you will no doubt notice that your posts have vanished or have been edited for content.

In the law enforcement profession, that there's known as...a clue.

 

[Control]

Be careful when reholstering that the trigger doesn't become entangled in an article of clothing

I'll second that.

There are periods of time when I wear a gun every day. I get up in the morning and on the gun goes. It comes off when I get home. One particular morning, the coffee was a little weak (not to spec for you tactical types).

On this morning, the 1911 came out of the small safe in the kitchen, a round was chambered, and the safety was put on. I swiped my shirt aside and put her in the holster like I’ve done a million times before.

The gun was riding a little sloppy in the holster so I just reached over to push the gun back down. I was thinking about bills, the crappy weather, and my stale toast I guess. .. half-awake because my kids were sick in the night.

The gun was still not holstered so I finally decided to look to see what the hell was happening. It was at that point that I realized my mistake… not looking at the gun through the entire act of holstering it. I swear my heart skipped a beat. The corner of my shirt had somehow worked its way into the trigger guard. Without the manual 1911 safety, the corner of the shirt crammed into the holster would have pulled the trigger. Bang…

On that day, despite how awesome I thought I was and how diligent I promised myself to be, I messed up. I’m not selling anything to anybody here. But for me, a manual safety is a very good thing… for that off day where the coffee isn’t 100% spec.

 

[MCgunner]

There's nothing wrong with redundant safeties IMHO. I don't own one, but appreciate the XDs and their grip safety. When reholstering, don't grab the gun around the grip safety, added security against entanglement in clothing. And, a grip safety is nothing you have to THINK about when you need to be doin' and not thinkin'.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Kahr does make some manual safety models. In pictures, at least, they look rather awkward to operate. They seem to have gone a bit too far, IMO, in the direction of blending them into the gun's contours.

I don't take issue with having or using safeties, per se, just the notion that one must have them to be "safe." If you do choose a firearm that has one, choose the mode you wish to carry it in and stick with it. A gunfight is not the time to remember which mode you left it in.

 

[JDGray]

I've had alot of carry guns, and my CW9 is by far the best one I've had! I have sold all the rest, or use for range guns....Its been beat into you brain by now about the manual safety, or lack there of, so we won't go there, but here is a list of guns I have gotten rid of and why....
1. P345, to dang big
2. G23, dont like 40s
3. P239, to dang top heavy
4. CZ P01, to fat in the nose
5. P11, nasty trigger
6. P32, too small, shot 8" low at 25'
7. LCP, again, too small
8. Kimber UCII, too heavy, manual safety
The CW9 is darn near perfect!! And carried IWB, in an "Adams Holsters" holster, you truly forget you have it on
http://adamsholsters.com/store/

 

[Orion8472]

Thanks for your input JD. And nice shooting there.

 

[Sgt_R]

Speaking of shooting, here's that P380 I was taking about earlier. My wife's PM9 shoots about the same.

R

 

[orionengnr]

I started shooting before Gaston Glock was a twinkle in his momma's eye.
Back then there were 1911s (and a few other semi-auto pistols) and revolvers.

Most/all LE carried revolvers. Revolvers have no external safety, and modern semi-auto pistols are similar in function if not in design. Not coincidentally, most/all modern LE carry a Glock or similar pistol. A modern trigger-action pistol is as safe as a revolver...if you are.

If you are a disciplined operator, you will have no problem with a Kahr, Glock, XD, etc. If you are a danged fool, you stand a good chance of having a problem no matter what you carry.

Remember...software first, then hardware.

 

[trex1310]

Thousands of cops, federal agents, citizens, etc. walk around carrying Glocks that don't have a safety without a problem. Why can't you?