Two legged dangers in National Parks

I've been working as a fishing guide now for about 15 years, pretty much full time down here in south Florida. Since I trailer a small skiff I'm pretty mobile but work most of my charters in Everglades National Park out of either Flamingo or Everglades City. The Park is a big place, roughly 90 miles by 90 miles all told and it covers a large area that's been a smuggler's paradise since civilization finally got down that far (after the Civil War). I rarely tell my anglers about the bloodier parts of that history but it's part of an area that I'm very fond of.... I personally consider nearby Miami and all of that 70mile long urban area a bigger hazard but it's just part of the scenery when you've lived down here long enough.

I make a point not to tell my anglers about my police days (any time you do that's all anyone wants to talk about...) and I'm sure I've had one or two aboard that wouldn't be there if they knew.... I never carry a weapon on the water (saltwater and guns mean high maintenance problems) and haven't noted the need. There are some un-spoken rules about that area though... You're smart not to inquire into anyone else's business in that area or get curious if you see a boat's behaving strangely or meeting in secluded areas. Just like any backwoods area, if you make a friend he/she might just walk through fire to help you. If you make an enemy things can get ugly long term since you'll also be dealing with their friends and family. As far as Park rangers go I can count on seeing one on the water in the areas I run... no more than two or three days out of every hundred (that's on the water, road patrol vehicles are working every day...).

I'm glad that an armed citizen can now carry in the Park if they want to. I do have a weapon nearby but never on my person. With my cranky ways and short temper that's probably a good idea for me...

committed a felony in the process

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I'm not sure I agree with what Ghost did

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So y'all made all the right moves with flawless judgement when you were 19? You held your temper & obeyed every law under violent, rapidly evolving circumstances? Then I surely am envious. Hell, I don't know that I "agree" with what I did. But it IS what I did, at the time, with the all judgement I had to muster at the moment. If you disapprove, fine by me, go get my "victim's" side of the story . But remember, never judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. 'Cause that way, you're a mile away from him...and you've got his freakin' shoes!

i didnt judge in any way! i simply made an observation and said "wow"....not for me to judge, but yes...when i was 19 i did make some bad descisions...armed robbery wasnt one of them , i was actually at the Naval Academy when i was 19 and you dont have much time for camping etc...btw i do still have a north face ve24...at the time i got it they were the top of the line and as i recall i paid something like 300 or more bucks for it in about 1975...he was a well equipped assailant

Yep, I've still got that VE24 ($300 is about right) & the Lowe backpack as well. It's TOUGH to wear-out good equipment. I've often wondered if he didn't get that high end gear the same way he was about to...take mine? He didn't strike me as type to save from a tight budget or work two jobs to BUY that gear. But heck, I only knew him for about 10 minutes, and after the first three, he didn't seem too chatty.

The guy who planted the bomb at the Atlanta Olympics spent most of his time in hiding in and around the Great Smoky Mountain National Park. I seem to recall the Unabomber lived in a remote area of Montana but I'm not sure if it was near any National Park or National Forest land.

Well I'm going to back up Ghost Tracker for his actions. Kudos to you for giving the skank exactly what he deserved IMO. I can't say that if I was in the same situation I wouldn't have shot the bastard. BTW, being threatened with a knife is lethal to the extent that deadly force is warranted as a response. The fact that the perp was vertical at the conclusion of the event is a better result than what he had coming to him (again, IMO).

At 62 y.o., if anyone pulled a stunt like that on me, the next thing I would be doing was getting within cell range to call the coroner. He wouldn't be lucky enought to walk out naked and barefoot.

Dan

The guy who planted the bomb at the Atlanta Olympics spent most of his time in hiding in and around the Great Smoky Mountain National Park. I seem to recall the Unabomber lived in a remote area of Montana but I'm not sure if it was near any National Park or National Forest land

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And they killed how many hikers?

Ghost Tracker, that's the sort of thing that you never know whether you made the right decision or not, but I recognize your discreation. Many, less restrained, would have removed a threat to their kind. Thanks for sharing.

Ghost Tracker, He's lucky you didn't knee cap the SOB. He initiated an attack with a deadly weapon you were most considerate in my opinion, good job!!!

I've always been cautious of parks and forests since watching Deliverance.

This may qualify although it was off of a dirt road which was the boundry of Pike National Forest and private property. My friend and I were shooting clays, I had just bought a Browning Citori 20 ga and was anxious to try it out. We set up a thrower about 25 yds from the road. Shortly after we started shooting a rent a cop pulled up and told us we were on private property and we were to hand over our shot guns. This was pure B.S. as I had lived in the area for 15 years and absolutely knew he was wrong and I told him so. He started to move his hand towards his side arm so I leveled my shot gun at him and told him there was no way he was taking my shotgun. He threatened to call the cops and I agreed that was the right thing to do. He walked to his truck got in and left, we thought it best to leave also. end of story. Nope, not sorry about it in the least, he had no authority to take my shotgun.

To sound trite....better to have it and not need it........If it is a park stating no guns I comply (reluctantly) and have bear spray and a big knife, otherwise I carry a handgun.

Years ago I carried illegally while remote camping in national parks.

Two legged dangers

As an SBI agent in NC working crime scenes, I had the unfortunate opportunity to work a triple homicide in a small federal park just outside of Morganton several years ago. Individual walked up on 3 campers, shot and killed all 3 of them. Complete strangers. Tracked him and finally arrested him in Uwarria Park (sp?) in the central part of the state. He was tried and convicted in Federal court in Asheville.

Just a pure scumbag. Some people don't need a reason. Some will kill you just to watch you bleed. Like I tell my friends now when they ask if I am carrying. I just tell them, if I've got my pants on I'm carrying. Just like an American Express. I don't leave home without it. And have it sitting by me now as I type.

We had a two people shotgunned to death, resulting in unsolved muders for over 30 years. This was a COUNTY park, rural, and not near a city, but in NE OHIO, I only mention it, because the the crimes were solved just recently by the deathbed confessions of an inmate in another state. The killer was a drifter, had no real motive (although I think he raped the 17 year old girl after killing her boyfriend, then killed her). Drifter, with a shotgun. Unprovoked. He drifted in and out so fast, the cops had nothing. I could see that happening in ANY national park.

This is why I raised this issue on another thread about carrying. It was mentioned by a member that he only carried when he was going into a dangerous area, I'm just re phrasing it as I don't remember the exact verbiage. But this is a prime example, you are never safe anyware. You carry a gun as a lifestyle not as a hobby. Similar to exercise or diet. It's the way some of us live our lives. It would be terrific if there were no reason for me to carry all the time. But until "guns" somehow won't be able to shoot good people and know the difference between right and wrong, I will continue staying armed all of the time.
I would hate to explain this to St. Peter, when he asks "what the heck are you doing here early", well, I went to a safe area for dinner, you know the place with the good veal chops. And there was this guy.
If you ever saw this happen, you would never leave your gun at home, a Police Captain was shot and killed in my favorite Restaurant, "back in the day", while eating dinner celebrating his sons engagement. A drug dealer accused him of staring at his girlfriend and shot him in the head. Enough said, Forests, restaurants, anyware, you can't call the spot, only prepare as best you can.

Sniper 51 said:

As an SBI agent in NC working crime scenes, I had the unfortunate opportunity to work a triple homicide in a small federal park just outside of Morganton several years ago. Individual walked up on 3 campers, shot and killed all 3 of them. Complete strangers. Tracked him and finally arrested him in Uwarria Park (sp?) in the central part of the state. He was tried and convicted in Federal court in Asheville.

Just a pure scumbag. Some people don't need a reason. Some will kill you just to watch you bleed. Like I tell my friends now when they ask if I am carrying. I just tell them, if I've got my pants on I'm carrying. Just like an American Express. I don't leave home without it. And have it sitting by me now as I type.

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You mean Uwharrie National Forest?


That hits home for me... Me and my wife have gone camping and off roading there a bunch... Nice place.

Uh, I live next to a couple giant national forests and a national park, and a few more are close by too. Those areas are just like rural areas anywhere else but with less people. The national parks are like any other tourist destination, they are actually pretty nice. I carry when I go, but I carry everywhere else too, so it isn't anything new. Worst that has happened to me all the years I've been going is that a chipmunk once took a stand behind a rock and wasn't giving up the crumb of food between us. He stood his ground, and I ended up backing down and he victoriously claimed the spoils. Looking back, I guess I could have pulled the Glock faster than he could have pulled whatever he had (because the way he was holding out, you could just tell...) but hindsight is 20/20. Look, the wildlife sometimes comes close to get a look at you, but they usually don't get too close, and then bear spray is better than a firearm in worst case scenarios. Most people in national parks are not there for trouble, they are on vacation, and in national forests, pretty much the same thing but far less people.

As for concern, I'm far more concerned going to grocery stores, Walmart or into town, and traffic bothers me even more.

Killer pot growers, nonsense. BS propaganda. Maybe in the North Mexican State of California, they have a real drug war going on in Mexico, but not around here. Not anything violent anyway, because if it was it would make the news and I would have seen it.

Google "national park" and key crime types such as murder, rape, robbery, assault, etc. and you will see that national parks have many of the same threats as you find anywhere else there are people.

You can also Google "national park marijuana field" and find several examples of said fields being dealt with in nationals parks, not just national forests. According to this article... http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=5565144&page=1

Marijuana is being grown illegally on national park land in seven states: California, Tennessee, Washington, Oregon, Kentucky, Hawaii and West Virginia, according to the Office of Drug Control Policy.

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First of all, kudos to Ghost Tracker. After all these years, you might be ashamed of how you handled things, but you certainly weren't embarrassed to tell us the tale.

And who's to say you didn't handle it right? You were the one who was there, and what you did allowed you to live to tell about it.

Anyway, I routinely walk in the woods with my dog, in areas often within city limits that are nevertheless pretty wild and remote (the metropolitan area in which I live is said to have "more urban green space per capita" than any other in the country). There's cell service, but if I called 9-1-1 I'd be hard-pressed to tell the dispatcher how to find me, and the cops would have a hard time getting there.

I've stumbled on signs of habitation, sometimes tents and sometimes rather sophisticated shelters, tucked away where no "normal" person would ever discover them; not pot fields (as far as I can tell), just folks living in the woods, maybe hiding out.

I don't look for trouble, and I usually announce my presence (with a shouted "Hello-o-o!") and give them a wide berth. Just the other day my dog was ahead of me on a trail and alerted on a guy sleeping under a blanket, in the middle of the day, surrounded by trash. I quickly called the dog back and we retreated without making any contact. But I was glad I had the dog (without whom I'd have no reason to be out there!) and my Combat Commander, which I try not to set foot in the woods, or anywhere else, without.

anecdotal, but still

it is worth noting that Yosemite NP has its own courthouse and jail.
When the park is full up, the jail is just as busy. Mostly alcohol and assault charges, some sexual assaults.

My wife and I hiked to Havasu Falls for our honeymoon a few years ago. From the village to the falls is about 2 miles. We somehow took the wrong path and ended up near the village dump. I heard voices from the woods and went toward them. We came upon a meth production lab. My wife and I both played dumb and pretended we didn't see it. I asked directions and the surly men there quickly ushered us out of the area. I was not packing anything more than a pocket knife at the time. It could have been really bad....thank goodness they let us go with no problems.

I find no fault to anyone who had had to anything in the woods, I live near a large army base in central Texas, and have walked into several pot fields, all times I have backed out and left with the feeling thAt I was being watched, and I'm sure I was, I just saw, and turned around, nothing further happened and I wasn't going to give a reason for any action, not worth it in my mind. It is what it is, people do what they need to, and I'll do what I have too

Is there any reason not to carry protection against criminals in a National Park?