357 Sig Can Penetrate Kevlar Vests?

I doubt it has any potential to penetrate a vest that is rated to stop pistol rounds and isn't worn out.

If it's loaded to it's upper ends it's about an exact match for the factory full-house 125 grain .357 Magnum loads. Handloaders and Buffalo Bore-type manufacturers can wring much more speed out of the .357, and often do, but the load they are trying to duplicate typically ran between 1350-1450 feet per second out of a 4" revolver.

They weren't known for penetrating vests any more than other pistol calibers and loads, so I don't see why the .357 Sig would. It's all physics, just a projectile of a given diameter, weight, and construction flying at a given speed. The vests are designed to stop projectiles that deliver a given amount of force to a given cross-section of vest safely.

.357 Sig is a cool round, and people who own them have a lot of good things to say about them, but it's just another service-caliber pistol load, it doesn't do anything special.

If the 9mm can penetrate, I don't see why .357 sig can't.

Keep in mind, you can't just talk about the generic cartridge, you have to talk about the specific load, too.

A .357 Sig is a 9mm on steroids (not that there's anything wrong with that.) It is less than a .357 Magnum, but in some loads it can get close. I think for trying to defeat body armor, it may come down to bullet selection more than anything else.

It worries me when people probe on what or how to penetrate a protective vest. I'd like to think that vests are primarily worn by the GG's and if the BG's have 'em, you should be buggin' out of there for sure. But no flaming on this please. Just an editorial.
Regardless, I believe that the best cartridge for such potential penetration is the 5.7x28mm that fires from the FN Five-seveN pistol. The true steel core jacket penetrating cartridges are sold only to LEO's and the like, but the civilian rounds come closer than most other handgun rounds. Or so I've read.
B

I would have to agree with B!ngo on this one. The .357 Sig round was adopted because SS could use it to penetrate vehicles better, ie go through windshield glass better due to the plastic layer inbetween usually throwing the 9 mm round off target but not the .357 Sig.
I also agree that if you are trying to defeat body armor the 5.7x28 is superior and comes in blue, black, and grey rounds with grey being the most supperior penetrator IIRC.

If I were to look for these capabilities, I would pass on the .357 SIG. Now, the 9x25 Dillon might have possibilities.... (9x25 is to 10mm what .357 SIG is to .40)

Remember, they are bullet RESISTANT, not bullet PROOF. They are LIKELY to stop a certain class of projectiles. not GUARANTEED. With this understanding, ANY bullet has the potential to penetrate a vest.

standard load fmj 125 grain defensive round

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No such thing. A "standard" 9mm defensive round is an HP. FMJ is a standard military round (if NATO pressure), or a standard practice round.

Perhaps we should shout from the roof-tops how many different handgun rounds can defeat Level II and IIIA vests? We all realize, right, that .223, .308, .45-70, etc. are chambered in handguns, and that even so mundane a handgun round as .44 Mag will do likely penetrate, too?

So why the hype?

Normal citizens wouldn't need to worry about that.

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Doesn't matter that what we "need to" worry about--we should be able to buy what ammo we want. However, as hard-alloy-bullet handgun rounds are now illegal for private citizens (with very small allowances for collectors), we should worry about the law, and obey it.

And the law has NOTHING to do with standard-composition rounds that can defeat kevlar.

Even if hard-alloy bullets were legal for private-citizen use, they present tactical hazards for the user, as well as benefits.

I have a Sig P226 in .357 sig (it should really be called .355 sig, doesnt sound as cool tho) and i have been very impressed at its ability to penetrate. using 125gr FMJ Ive shot mine through 2 chest freezers, through two car doors. Also through one side of those huge steel garbage containers you see outside resteraunts. Obviously these are not scientific like tests but i was still impressed, haha

Also through one side of those huge steel garbage containers you see outside resteraunts

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Find any road signs while you were at it.

X-Rap said:

Find any road signs while you were at it.

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yah i just drive around and shoot random things that i see, ya know to check the penetration powers of my sig. <-- joke

It was an old junk one a friend brought to the range to shoot. Chill out and dont judge me.

I seem to remember the reference to more penetration through cars being an objective of the .357 sig, but I've never heard it mentioned that it was designed (or procured) to penetrate body armor.

It was an old junk one a friend brought to the range to shoot. Chill out and dont judge me.

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WTH??? your friend drive a garbage truck or a fork lift? What kind of range lets you haul junk out on it so you can do your pen tests???

LibraPMC said:

B!ngo I'm sorry if I gave out the impression of wanting to own a round with capability to penetrate bulletproof (or bullet resistant) vests. Normal citizens wouldn't need to worry about that. I simply wanted to know if 357 sig is somewhat exaggerated than its actual performance not merely on its armor piercing capability. Thanks for the input!!!

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This is just a personal opinion, but it is something normal citizens need to worry about. At least those who plan to wear body armor. If you (anyone) do, you're likely to rely on it to save your life and as a result it should be of interest to you what can/cant penetrate it. Not so you can use it to fight LE, but so that you know what it's limitations are.

All information is useful. Whether its good or bad depends on how you intend to use it.

I think it's important to point out that vests are not magical or secret, the way they work and what they are rated to defeat is very much public knowledge.

Also, they are not made out of metal or glass, the reliability of a handgun JHP's performance after passing through metal or glass doesn't have any relevance in regards to a vest's performance against it.

.357 Sig is a neat round, but it is still loaded with normal service-caliber bullets, in the normal service caliber weight and sectional density range and construction, and pushed along at normal service pistol speeds. It's on the fast end of the service caliber range, but it is absolutely not extraordinary. It behaves in basically identical fashion to every other pistol cartridge available.

X-Rap said:

WTH??? your friend drive a garbage truck or a fork lift? What kind of range lets you haul junk out on it so you can do your pen tests???

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wrecker and a winch

the shooting range that's behind my house, lol. Which is in the middle of the woods.

The original 38 Super load (130 pointed FMJ at 1300 FPS) can defeat lightweight vests worn under shirts.

I'd like to think that vests are primarily worn by the GG's

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The true steel core jacket penetrating cartridges are sold only to LEO's and the like

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So if it's mostly the Good Guys wearing vests, then why do the LEOs need AP rounds? And if the LEOs are convinced they need them then might there not be times when I might need them against a savvy home invader?

Plan2Live said:

So if it's mostly the Good Guys wearing vests, then why do the LEOs need AP rounds? And if the LEOs are convinced they need them then might there not be times when I might need them against a savvy home invader?

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They need AP rounds for penetrating car doors / windows etc. And your right i think anyone should be able to have ap rounds

PLan2live,

People don't like you asking such questions. It tends to point out the obvious answer that is not to be talked about.

If a .357 SIG is a danger to vests?

They better watch out for .22 WMR.

Velocity & SD penetrates vests.

The .22 Mag Rim-Fire out of a rilfe is going faster then the .357 SIG out of a pistol.

rc

rcmodel said:

If a .357 SIG is a danger to vests?

They better watch out for .22 WMR.

Velocity & SD penetrates vests.

The .22 Mag Rim-Fire out of a rilfe is going faster then the .357 SIG out of a pistol.

rc

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That may be the most ignorant thing i have ever read.......