Glued To The Bench--a growing trend?

I am new to shooting rifles and have turned into one of those shooters who spend their range time at the bench, mainly for working up loads, but I haven't really thought about the importance of shooting from practical real life positions. I do practice defensive pistol shooting drills, so you would think it would be obvious.

Any good resources? I only have "hunting" accurate rifles no $4000 precision shooters in my gun cabinet:banghead:

Country Ugly defines a Shooting Bench - {common} a fallen tree about 30 inches off the ground {fancy} A well placed 5 gallon bucket positioned off the side of a Chevrolet tail gate with a field pack for stability, support and elevation adjustments.

I belong to a shooting club that has about 400 members and I shoot my rifles two or three times a month all year long. I never shoot from a bench and I use three shooting positions. Very seldom do I ever see another rifle shooter fire a shot except from the bench. They don't seem to know that unless you can shoot a rifle from the basic positions that in most hunting and defense situations a rifle is next to useless. To me it equates to the fact that 20% of the hunters take 80% of the deer, 20% of the fisherman catch 80% of the fish, and 20% of the single men catch 80% of the single women. If you read this note and want to join that 20% go down to the range and practice the basic positions. Prone is the least important because in real life it is hard to shoot over grass, weeks and brush but sitting and offhand are most important. BW

Stormin.40 said:

Any good resources? I only have "hunting" accurate rifles no $4000 precision shooters in my gun cabinet:banghead:

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Attend an Project Appleseed event. The Marksmanship they teach is all based on field positions and using the GI web sling.

There is nothing wrong or broken, people shoot for enjoyment. That can mean different things to different people. I can spend hours on end with my 700 mil spec or savage lrpv chasing sub 1/2 moa groups and still be bummed when it's time to leave. Shooting an sks capable of 2.5-3moa, offhand which probably increases the group size to 5-6moa, bores me to tears in about 5 minutes. TO each their own though, I don't feel a need to say all rifles not capable of at least moa should be scrapped, but personally I have little use for one.

They don't seem to know that unless you can shoot a rifle from the basic positions that in most hunting and defense situations a rifle is next to useless.

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I'm not against practicing from many positions, but I've shot 50+ big game animals, and exactly 2 were without some sort of rest(backpack, bipod, log, etc...) And both were at less than 50 yards. There is some dependence on the type of terrain you hunt, but certainly shooting offhand at long distances is not a requirement to be quite successful harvesting big game. And the statement is even more silly when applied to defense situations. Aside from fantasy apocalypse scenarios, "defense situations" will by definition occur at close range. Even 25 yards seems like it would be hard to defend in court as "self defense". And hitting a human size target at 25 yards(or most likely much less), does not require a great deal of actual marksmanship. Weapon familiarity, calm under stress, and common sense are much more important.

To me it equates to the fact that 20% of the hunters take 80% of the deer, 20% of the fisherman catch 80% of the fish, and 20% of the single men catch 80% of the single women.

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Very true, but these numbers have nothing to do with the ability to shoot from different positions.

Must have been ten years since I shot off a bench. Now across the truck hood, top of a rock, leaning on a tree, sitting braced up against something, yep, I'm guilty. But I do enjoy just walking and busting rocks offhand at varying distances, &c.

Four pages of posts that try to tell other people how to enjoy their shooting sports?

Really?

Stance training is not just about long range rifle matches, my friend. The training teaches you how to be more familiar with your firearm and how to actually use it under stress. There's a whole world of it out there, waiting. IF you get off the bench ;-)

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Shooting from a bench is not just about benchrest matches or being lazy, my friend. The training teaches you how to be more familiar with your firearm, analyze shooting technique, read wind, breath control, and trigger control all at a more granular level. You can verify and fully exploit the accuracy potential of your rifle/bullet combination, and test for better combinations for even greater accuracy. Shooting small groups at ranges from 100-1000 yards in the wind (or even without)is no more or less stressful than shooting standin' up. There's a whole world of ballistics, load development, wind reading, and shooting technique experience out there, waiting, IF you get ON the bench...
That being said, it matters not a bit to me what YOU do, as long as you enjoy yourself. We do this for fun, and many of us have limited range time due to work/family/life stuff. So if I do get an hour or 2 every other week to hit the range, shooting small groups at distant targets over a sandbag is where I like to spend my time. And I usually will break out the python and run a few cylinders downrange just to make sure I could defend myself should the need arise. OK I'll admit sometimes I even put that thing on a rest and see how small a group I can shoot at 100 If my range time were unlimited, sure maybe I'd shoot positions, compete in 3-gun, cowboy shooting, who knows what.

Bench vs. Positions

I will say without guilt or remorse that I belong to a club with an outdoor 200yd range, and for the 3 years since I joined ALL of my shooting has been from a bench. I have not shot handguns for 20 years, although I'm in the process of getting a permit and starting up again.

But I currently own 14 rifles, and after not reloading for about 20 years, I am again doing that. Five of the rifles are inherited from my Dad and Granddad, and all five needed an initial sight-in. Three of them also needed new load work-ups.

Three of the rest are new to me within the last 2 years, and also required sight-in and scope mount. Because of changes in powder properties and new bullet types, my favorite 2 hunting rifles have required multiple iterations of reload testing.

I have also been teaching my wife and my daughter to shoot, and the first steps are trigger and breathing, as well as basic handling, safety, and range etiquette. Bench is a good way to establish those things.

Since I work as a business consultant, I mostly spend 4 nights/week in a hotel somewhere in the US, and another day or so traveling. So my time on the range is pretty limited.

I learned to shoot offhand first, starting at age 8, and never went to a range until I was in my 30's. But today, it's where I can shoot. In spite of limited opportunities, the last 6 animals I took (whitetail, antelope, and muley) were all one-shot DRT kills. Would I like to do some offhand shooting? -Sure, but first I have to get all my equipment into the best shape I can, with the best rounds I can produce.

Someone from the club might see me at a bench and say, "I wonder why that guy doesn't shoot positions? He's always at a bench, punching holes at 100 and 200 yards." -Well, there are good reasons. This summer, I have encouraged my daughter to do Appleseed. My wife has already been hunting with me, and I hope we'll be able to do more of it.

But right now, on the odd weekend, I'm the old guy at bench 12, or 14, or wherever.

"They don't seem to know that unless you can shoot a rifle from the basic positions that in most hunting and defense situations a rifle is next to useless."

Seem to know? If you didn't ask them, you're just assuming they don't know. Heck, maybe they don't give a hoot about defensive use or hunting.

I'd been shooting for 40+ years before I had the chance (or paid the money ) to shoot somewhere with a bench. I'm not counting picnic tables btw.

John

I go to the range to use the benches. I can shoot on family or friend's property to practice (okay, okay play at) offhand, kneeling, prone, etc. shooting. When I go to the range, it is to zero my rifle, and when I do that, I want a bench to shoot off of.

The bench takes all athleticism nd physical effort out of shooting. It is suited to the average out of shape and over weight American.

The way i see it...if someone shoots from a rest, and shoots better than you because you want to be stubborn and shoot from a stance, do you get upset?

Just willing to bet that you are not here complaining about it because you are shooting better from a stance than they are off a rest...

I'm going to guess most of the people you see at the range are not in combat situations. There is no need to shoot from anything other than a rest. Even a military sniper will find some type of make shift rest. Look at longest confirmed kills and i doubt any of those guys were standing.

I shoot with either bags or a bipod from prone because it works, across the hood of a truck is fine too. I don't ever miss a target either due to it. i can and have shot standing, kneeling, as we learned in the military, i just have no need to. I actually don't think i ever shot from a bench rest. I like making consistent small groups. The only thing someone should be able to shoot from any position is a carry gun.

I understand "doing things the way you used to" but things change and people find better ways to do things. You wouldn't change parts on a gun or car out with new or better parts if the stock part was superior.

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For me when I'm using a rifle with iron sights or a red dot and other similar optics I always shoot offhand, but when I'm using a scope I'm always on the bench. When hunting I use shooting sticks, or if in a tree stand I prop up on the frame. Never had a problem, and I suspect I never will. To each his own.

I shoot off a bench all the time now. Legs are just about no good due to heavy duty back injury several years ago. At least I still get to shoot. What I don't understand are the people who come to the range with a AR and a semi auto pistol and a bucket full of loaded clips. Then they shoot it all as fast as they can pull the triggers and reload and never put a target up.

The way i see it...if someone shoots from a rest, and shoots better than you because you want to be stubborn and shoot from a stance, do you get upset?

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I dont get upset, especially when I shoot better than they do, and Im just resting on my butt shooting.

You dont need a bench to shoot tight little groups. You do need to have worked on and practiced your skills a little more.

Shooting off a bench is sort of like learning to drive on an automatic transmission. You can drive, but you really cant.

The bench takes all athleticism nd physical effort out of shooting. It is suited to the average out of shape and over weight American.

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A very true point, and not to be taken well Im sure. No one likes the truth, especially when it applies.

You dont need a bench to shoot tight little groups. You do need to have worked on and practiced your skills a little more.

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Why do I get the idea that what you think is a "tight little group" would come in dead last in every benchrest match that I've ever seen .....

Cosmoline said:

I have half a mind to print some cards with the stances on them and start passing them around. If you can't shoot in the stances, IMHO, you really can't shoot. And stance shooting requires constant practice to keep in form.

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Sounds like a great idea to me. I have no clue what "the stances" are. I'd definitely like to, though.

Why do I get the idea that what you think is a "tight little group" would come in dead last in every benchrest match that I've ever seen .....

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True "benchrest" is a slightly different animal from recreational benchrest or any other type shooting, as there really is very little input from the shooter other than the trigger.

Still, you can shoot pretty tight groups using field and improvised positions without the aide of a bench.


These were shot at 100 yards, prone, either off a rucksack or bipod....






These were shot offhand at 100 yards, with of all things, an AK with a red dot...



AR offhand...



AK with red dot, cross legged sitting...



AK, cross legged sitting, 200 yards, factory iron sights (the bottom group was fired from a rest to confirm zero)....

How someone shoots is of no importance to me.
That they are enjoying themselves and helping to keep shooting popular among the masses is very important to me.
Drive folks away by judging them and there will be less folks to ensure the continued existance of the shooting sports we all love and enjoy.
Instead of being critical and chasing folks off it may be wise to recruit even more folks and should they choose to shoot at a bench all day so be it. They dont offend me in the least.
T

Think I'm going to go with the classic answer:

My guns, my bullets, my time - none of which are your business.

With that said, if you would like to purchase me some guns, some bullets, and pay me for my time - I'll probably shoot however you want me to when you are around.

Other than that, pound sand - that is what the world is, a bunch of people different from one another.

Actually, I prefer prone unsupported shooting.. if one of you guys can get a range near me that will allow it I'd use it a lot. Bench only unless you're on the handgun range here.