Consider the Baikal 161M. It is a modified (and I think improved) 10/22 inside. Unlike the other 22s discussed, it is polymer unibody style, like the beretta cx4. Another distinction is that the LOP, the cheek rest, and the iron sights are all adjustable. Prices vary but generally mirror the 10/22.
.22 Caliber rifle
- Thread starter JamesHarrison1212
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SleazyRider
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To what do you attribute this accuracy? What, precisely, is missing in modern "fancy" rifles that make this 60-year rifle superior?
Caliper_Mi
Member
Let's see, a CZ452 is a $400 or so rifle (per Buds Gun Shop) 10/22's are around $200... Yeah, the CZ had better outshoot the Ruger out of the box. Either is a good choice, just pick if you want a semi or bolt action.
Many people seem to like to replace everything Ruger in their 10/22 except the mag, but the 10/22 is a good rifle out of the box too. Only bad point out of the box is the sights they put on them. It's just not a setup that makes for an easy sight picture. Some sort of receiver mounted aperture sight (Tech Sights, Williams, Lyman) or a scope will fix that. A 10/22 with nothing more than a second mag, Tech Sights and a GI web sling will easily score Rifleman at an Appleseed if the shooter is up to it.
BTW: since you say you are a newbie to guns, whatever rifle you choose you should seriously think about attending a Project Appleseed event. I am an Instructor and have seen our instruction time and again shrink down the group size of even experienced shooters. Starting fresh like you are, you will not have any bad habbits to un-learn either.
Many people seem to like to replace everything Ruger in their 10/22 except the mag, but the 10/22 is a good rifle out of the box too. Only bad point out of the box is the sights they put on them. It's just not a setup that makes for an easy sight picture. Some sort of receiver mounted aperture sight (Tech Sights, Williams, Lyman) or a scope will fix that. A 10/22 with nothing more than a second mag, Tech Sights and a GI web sling will easily score Rifleman at an Appleseed if the shooter is up to it.
BTW: since you say you are a newbie to guns, whatever rifle you choose you should seriously think about attending a Project Appleseed event. I am an Instructor and have seen our instruction time and again shrink down the group size of even experienced shooters. Starting fresh like you are, you will not have any bad habbits to un-learn either.
mdauben
Member
My personal opinions:
- Bolt-Action - The CZ would be my first choice, with the Savage Model II a close second, especially if price is an issue.
- Semi-Auto - Despite the widespread popularity of the 10/22, I would pick the Marlin Model 60 for out-of-the-box accuracy, with the 10/22 as second choice (unless you are looking for a 'project' gun, in which case the 10/22 is what you want).
high country
Member
If you are considering a 10/22, you should definitely also consider a marlin, either a model 60 or a 795. They are good right out of the box, and a great value. I picked up a 795 a few years ago, and it makes an excellent all around plinker/small game rifle (although I agree with everyone else, .22lr is insufficient to hunt coyote at any significant range).
If you think you might do an appleseed event at some point, which you should, the 795 would be a better choice. Add a sling and some tech sights, pick up a few extra magazines and you will be in business. You could have the rifle, sling, sights, and a couple spare magazines for $250 if you shop for sales. You can mount a scope on it too if that is your preference. I have a model 60 with a little 4x rimfire scope on it and that thing is deadly on prairie dogs!
Good luck with your purchase
If you think you might do an appleseed event at some point, which you should, the 795 would be a better choice. Add a sling and some tech sights, pick up a few extra magazines and you will be in business. You could have the rifle, sling, sights, and a couple spare magazines for $250 if you shop for sales. You can mount a scope on it too if that is your preference. I have a model 60 with a little 4x rimfire scope on it and that thing is deadly on prairie dogs!
Good luck with your purchase
freewheeling
Member
The CZ512 is a semi-auto .22LR. Best of both worlds, or a suboptimal compromise? I dunno, but would love to have one to check it out.
X-Rap
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Of all my 22's the one that gets used the most is a 10/22 with 2 simple mods. It has a Butler Creek folding stock and a 2x7 Redfield scope. I have no trouble taking rock squirels out to 150 yds and it will ring the 3" dinger at 100 until the ammo is all gone.
They are hard to find now but in the past and hopefully the future they were available for $125 used on a regular basis.
They are hard to find now but in the past and hopefully the future they were available for $125 used on a regular basis.
StrutStopper
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If one of the primary uses of this gun is coyote hunting, I'd go with a .22WMR, not .22LR. Of course, you can get a CZ 455 with both barrels and swap them out accordingly.
non2os13
Member
I have several 22's and the jack of all trade 22 that i almost always use is a marlin 981t. Tube feed bolt action that will shoot anything from cb shorts to cci stingers.
If you want accuracy the CZ is the far better choice of the two rifles you mentioned. I love my 453. Extremely well built, beautiful and very accurate right out of the box. The 10/22 is not that accurate out of the box. It's ok but it's nothing like a CZ.
I sure know why he's heard that. It's because they aren't that accurate until they're modified. Once in a while you'll see one that shoots accurate out of the box or so people tell me. I've never seen one. I've seen them get embarrassed by Marlin 60's time after time and the Marlin's are a lot cheaper. BTW the Ruger is NOT the most popular rimfire rifle. It's not even close. Marlin sells twice as many 60's. They always have. The last count I saw was 12 million 60's sold to 5 million 10/22's sold. I believe that makes the Marlin the most popular .22 by a big margin.
If you want a good semi-auto get a Marlin 60 unless you want to spend the money to upgrade the Ruger. If you do that the Ruger can be made to shoot much more accurate. But it won't be cheap to do. If you want a bolt action either get that CZ or a Savage. My Savage is actually more accurate than my CZ and it's had a lot less problems. But in the long run I think the CZ will be going a longer time.
IMO the 453 is worth the extra money. The improved trigger is great. The thing is the 452 is no longer in production and the 453 will probably go out of production soon because they're going to make the single set trigger an option on the 455. I've heard mixed reports on that trigger. It's not as good as the 453 trigger but it doesn't cost as much either. I'd get a 453 if you can find one. Well in fact I "did" get a 453. I have a couple of Marlin 60's too. I don't own any Ruger 10/22's. I think other rifles are a better deal. Yes you can make a Ruger into a great rifle but it will cost you big bucks. I'd rather go ahead and buy a really good rifle based on the 10/22. It's cheaper that way and you don't end up tossing parts in the trash because you have better parts.
I sure know why he's heard that. It's because they aren't that accurate until they're modified. Once in a while you'll see one that shoots accurate out of the box or so people tell me. I've never seen one. I've seen them get embarrassed by Marlin 60's time after time and the Marlin's are a lot cheaper. BTW the Ruger is NOT the most popular rimfire rifle. It's not even close. Marlin sells twice as many 60's. They always have. The last count I saw was 12 million 60's sold to 5 million 10/22's sold. I believe that makes the Marlin the most popular .22 by a big margin.
If you want a good semi-auto get a Marlin 60 unless you want to spend the money to upgrade the Ruger. If you do that the Ruger can be made to shoot much more accurate. But it won't be cheap to do. If you want a bolt action either get that CZ or a Savage. My Savage is actually more accurate than my CZ and it's had a lot less problems. But in the long run I think the CZ will be going a longer time.
IMO the 453 is worth the extra money. The improved trigger is great. The thing is the 452 is no longer in production and the 453 will probably go out of production soon because they're going to make the single set trigger an option on the 455. I've heard mixed reports on that trigger. It's not as good as the 453 trigger but it doesn't cost as much either. I'd get a 453 if you can find one. Well in fact I "did" get a 453. I have a couple of Marlin 60's too. I don't own any Ruger 10/22's. I think other rifles are a better deal. Yes you can make a Ruger into a great rifle but it will cost you big bucks. I'd rather go ahead and buy a really good rifle based on the 10/22. It's cheaper that way and you don't end up tossing parts in the trash because you have better parts.
James;
I've got "several" .22 rimfire guns, of which there are a few CZ's and a few Ruger 10/22's. As a new gun, for doing what you stated, the CZ is a better match for your desires. Here's some basic differences amongst the CZ family. The 452 has a traditional barrel that's screwed into the action, just like most centerfire guns. The 453 is the same gun but with a single-set trigger. If the target shooting is most important to you, this would be a very useful feature. The 455's are built with a slip-in barrel, just like the Ruger 10/22. If, for some reason, the 452 trigger isn't what you want the extremely reasonable YoDave kit is available. I don't know what it sells for these days, but about $25.00 would be my guess. Go to Rimfire Central's CZ forum for all the latest & greatest data.
As I stated, I've got 10/22's also of all sorts even one personally built by a certain person in Carroll Iowa. However, if you do your ammo testing, and that's something that's needed with every .22 regardless of make or model once the word accuracy is mentioned, the CZ will outshoot the Ruger as an out-of-the-box gun just about every single time.
900F
I've got "several" .22 rimfire guns, of which there are a few CZ's and a few Ruger 10/22's. As a new gun, for doing what you stated, the CZ is a better match for your desires. Here's some basic differences amongst the CZ family. The 452 has a traditional barrel that's screwed into the action, just like most centerfire guns. The 453 is the same gun but with a single-set trigger. If the target shooting is most important to you, this would be a very useful feature. The 455's are built with a slip-in barrel, just like the Ruger 10/22. If, for some reason, the 452 trigger isn't what you want the extremely reasonable YoDave kit is available. I don't know what it sells for these days, but about $25.00 would be my guess. Go to Rimfire Central's CZ forum for all the latest & greatest data.
As I stated, I've got 10/22's also of all sorts even one personally built by a certain person in Carroll Iowa. However, if you do your ammo testing, and that's something that's needed with every .22 regardless of make or model once the word accuracy is mentioned, the CZ will outshoot the Ruger as an out-of-the-box gun just about every single time.
900F
The CZ will likely out shoot the Ruger no matter how much money you put into the Ruger too. Bolt action rifles are just more accurate. If accuracy is what you're looking for you will spend about $1000 trying to get the Ruger to match the CZ and most likely it never will. And the CZ is not the most accurate bolt action rifle going. We need to talk about Sako, Anschutz, and others. They cost a lot more too.
22-rimfire
Member
I want to handle one too. You seldom see them for sale. (Actually I have NEVER seen one.) They are made in both 22LR and 22WMR. I want a 22LR, but it is not at the top of my priorty list. But if I ran into one and it was priced "fair", I'd probably buy one tomorrow. It is hard to find "fair" right now.
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TexasPatriot.308
Member
guess I am just a good shot still at 59. grew up shooting iron sight .22s and in the military using irons too. this little Sears and Roebuck still shoots water moccassins heads off at 30 plus yards with no problem.
MasterSergeantA
Member
The CZ is a great rifle. I have a couple. But I also have eight 10/22s in varying configurations. And a couple of Marlin Glenfield 60s that have a bunch of years on them. All of them are good; just depends on what you really want. Different actions, different feeding, differing numbers of accessories. The 10/22 is THE most accessorized .22LR in the world. The CZ is a 'what-you-see-is-what-you-get' situation which, honestly, is a very good situation. Generally more accurate than the others and very well made. You really need to consider what you want and take the advice here for what it is worth.
And the .22LR is really marginal for song dogs. You might consider a .17HMR or .22WMR, if you don't want to move up to a centerfire. A CZ in .223 would be a good choice or even a NEF Handi-Rifle in that caliber.
And the .22LR is really marginal for song dogs. You might consider a .17HMR or .22WMR, if you don't want to move up to a centerfire. A CZ in .223 would be a good choice or even a NEF Handi-Rifle in that caliber.
It depends what you're comparing it to.
A 10/22 trigger is OK for a soda can plinking gun. I've owned a standard 10/22and a factory 10/22 Target. The differences between THOSE two triggers was HUGE Comparing the 10/22T trigger and that of my CZ452 Varmint or Win 52 makes the 10/22 trigger pretty crappy. Nothing a little polishing or aftermarket upgrade can't fix. That being said, comparing the CZ trigger to the Winchester, the CZ is worse.
A 10/22 trigger is OK for a soda can plinking gun. I've owned a standard 10/22and a factory 10/22 Target. The differences between THOSE two triggers was HUGE
Comparing the 10/22T trigger and that of my CZ452 Varmint or Win 52 makes the 10/22 trigger pretty crappy. Nothing a little polishing or aftermarket upgrade can't fix. That being said, comparing the CZ trigger to the Winchester, the CZ is worse.I really don't get this attraction to the 10/22 many people have. They're decent rifles that CAN be made into great rifles with money. But out of the box they are beat pretty much every time by Marlins and yes I've tried direct comparisons many times. Rugers aren't bad rifles but there are other rifles that are better no matter how you go. The only 10/22's that are really great IMO are the ones that people spend a bunch of money to make into great accuracy shooters. That is a good thing to have a semi-auto that shoots as good as they do. But the bling people want to hang on them is boring to me. I don't need a .22 that looks like a AR or a Buck Rogers ray gun. I need a .22 that will hit what I aim at.
Bolt action rifles are just naturally more accurate than semi-autos and CZ's are a really good choice. Yes they are more expensive than most Rugers but a person can buy a bolt action Savage that will be much more accurate than a Ruger 10/22 for about the same money as a lot of those 10/22's.
So that leaves buying a Ruger to build into a great shooter for me. And IMO a semi-auto is a fast action gun instead of an aim and fire gun. It's nice to have both of course but getting a semi-auto to shoot better than a really good bolt action rifle is going to be very hard to do.
Some people will swear the 10/22 is the best rifle ever made. That's the part I don't get. Yes they are decent rifles, even good rifles. But the "best"???? No freaking way they're the best at anything except maybe the most accurate semi-auto but it will take lots of money to make it that way. And it still won't shoot with something like a Sako or an Anschutz 54 series.
People just over hype those Rugers. They'll swear they're the most popular .22's and they're not. They'll say they're more accurate than any gun (yes I've seen that posted many, many times) and that's just wacky.
I don't have anything against Ruger. I own one. I did have something against the company years ago because of what Bill Ruger did but he's been gone a long time and mostly I've forgotten about that. It's just that some people really go overboard comparing them to much better shooting rifles like the CZ. A stock Ruger just will not shoot with a CZ. It won't even be close. I've tried that too. I own a CZ. I've shot several other CZ's. I've shots lots of Rugers. They are NOT in the same league as far as accuracy goes.
It gets to the point where I would avoid buying a 10/22 because I wouldn't want people thinking I'm one of those people that swear they're the best rifles made. They just aren't by a big margin. They aren't bad rifles. They're good rifles. But they are NOT super rifles. They get way more praise than they deserve IMO.
Bolt action rifles are just naturally more accurate than semi-autos and CZ's are a really good choice. Yes they are more expensive than most Rugers but a person can buy a bolt action Savage that will be much more accurate than a Ruger 10/22 for about the same money as a lot of those 10/22's.
So that leaves buying a Ruger to build into a great shooter for me. And IMO a semi-auto is a fast action gun instead of an aim and fire gun. It's nice to have both of course but getting a semi-auto to shoot better than a really good bolt action rifle is going to be very hard to do.
Some people will swear the 10/22 is the best rifle ever made. That's the part I don't get. Yes they are decent rifles, even good rifles. But the "best"???? No freaking way they're the best at anything except maybe the most accurate semi-auto but it will take lots of money to make it that way. And it still won't shoot with something like a Sako or an Anschutz 54 series.
People just over hype those Rugers. They'll swear they're the most popular .22's and they're not. They'll say they're more accurate than any gun (yes I've seen that posted many, many times) and that's just wacky.
I don't have anything against Ruger. I own one. I did have something against the company years ago because of what Bill Ruger did but he's been gone a long time and mostly I've forgotten about that. It's just that some people really go overboard comparing them to much better shooting rifles like the CZ. A stock Ruger just will not shoot with a CZ. It won't even be close. I've tried that too. I own a CZ. I've shot several other CZ's. I've shots lots of Rugers. They are NOT in the same league as far as accuracy goes.
It gets to the point where I would avoid buying a 10/22 because I wouldn't want people thinking I'm one of those people that swear they're the best rifles made. They just aren't by a big margin. They aren't bad rifles. They're good rifles. But they are NOT super rifles. They get way more praise than they deserve IMO.
SwampWolf
Member
The recently discontinued Remington Model 504 is a very well-made, accurate (at least mine is, equipped with a Nikon ProStaff, 4x, rimfire scope) and nice handling, .22 bolt-action rifle. They generally are selling new for around $400.00 or so.
Welcome to The High Road, JamesHarrison1212.
Welcome to The High Road, JamesHarrison1212.
robby04162
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- Mar 11, 2013
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I was lucky to pick up a Marlin 60 as my first rifle just before Marlin started to have trouble, didn't know it at the time either. The gun is well made and shoots extremely well. At the time I chose it because I was looking for simplicity and accuracy out of the box and it's exactly what I got. But as my tastes have changed with time I can definately see how a 10/22 could have gotten me by just as well if not better.
I'm just getting out of college and will be starting a new job soon, with that and a sudden increase in funds my next rifle will more than likely be a 10/22 that I can make my own and not worry about the cost going into the rifle.
That or hope Marlin starts making some higher capacity magazines for the 795
I'm just getting out of college and will be starting a new job soon, with that and a sudden increase in funds my next rifle will more than likely be a 10/22 that I can make my own and not worry about the cost going into the rifle.
That or hope Marlin starts making some higher capacity magazines for the 795
I agree with Cee Zee.
The older Marlin 60 is, IMO, a great rifle, and I'm always keeping a peeper open for good used 60s or it's more elusive cousin, the shorter barrel Marlin 75.
If you want to have a much larger offering of aftermarket accessories available for your rifle, get a 10/22 for sure.
I think the Marlin 60 is more accurate, comparing the two out of the box though.
The older Marlin 60 is, IMO, a great rifle, and I'm always keeping a peeper open for good used 60s or it's more elusive cousin, the shorter barrel Marlin 75.
If you want to have a much larger offering of aftermarket accessories available for your rifle, get a 10/22 for sure.
I think the Marlin 60 is more accurate, comparing the two out of the box though.
The Grand Baboon
Member
Go with a CZ-452. They are elegant, accurate (1/2" MOA @ 50 yards with bulk pack ammo), and superbly built (steel, walnut, and more steel). The quality on CZ firearms is next to none for the price.
I have to say my newer 60 is better in some ways than my older 60. It's more accurate by a good amount but it's more picky about ammo than the old one. That's probably an indication of a tighter bore. I'm not getting rid of either rifle though. They both have their uses. I really like both of them and most of the other Marlins I have too.
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