Maverick223
Member
Thanks gunny, I feel you. No offense Gamera, but that is what scares away many would-be members. I know several forums that are very effective at doing just that, and thankfully THR is not one of them. 
22. sniper rifle
- Thread starter Silent Ninja Lord
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turkeythigh
Member
+1 for the savage mkII. i like the acu-trigger though.
welcome to THR, hope you stick around. there is much knowledge to be shared.
welcome to THR, hope you stick around. there is much knowledge to be shared.
Well, young man, at least you are honest and told us old folks up front your real age. I suspect (hope) you are honest with your parents as well.
I think a .22LR rifle is a good first firearm to consider. I wouldn't get hung up on the 10-round magazine, though. Think carefully about the bolt actions with 5-shot magazines.
But I might also suggest you consider a good quality air rifle as a starter if you are serious about learning to target shoot at a higher level. Air rifles are legal in most states to take small game (squirrels in particular), but check your local hunting regulations. Air rifles, too, can be endlessly customized with some really nice stocks and accessories. They are not only a good way to get started in competitive target shooting, but also a pretty good way to learn some basic gunsmith skills. Just something to consider.
I think a .22LR rifle is a good first firearm to consider. I wouldn't get hung up on the 10-round magazine, though. Think carefully about the bolt actions with 5-shot magazines.
But I might also suggest you consider a good quality air rifle as a starter if you are serious about learning to target shoot at a higher level. Air rifles are legal in most states to take small game (squirrels in particular), but check your local hunting regulations. Air rifles, too, can be endlessly customized with some really nice stocks and accessories. They are not only a good way to get started in competitive target shooting, but also a pretty good way to learn some basic gunsmith skills. Just something to consider.
P.B.Walsh
Member
Where are these stocks for air rifles?
gvnwst
Member
Here is one, really nice:
http://www.mec-shot.de/produkte/schaefte/mark1/index.html
There are other similar companies all over the place that do the same thing.
custom stocks for air rifles
Look here:
http://www.woodsandwateroutdoors.com/
http://www.ginb.it/index.php?lang=en
http://www.springgunning.com/
http://www.bentaylorandson.co.uk/images/ad_0306.pdf
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=11782&mid=92524
http://www.airguns.citymax.com/stockinfo.html
And MANY more. At the high end of airgunnig, you can easily spend as much or more on a custom air rifle than on a powderburner. And I can shoot 500 rounds of match grade pellets for around $10 bucks.
Here are a couple of my Olympic grade target rifles dressed in German walnut -- pretty nice for a couple of "BB guns", eh?
Look here:
http://www.woodsandwateroutdoors.com/
http://www.ginb.it/index.php?lang=en
http://www.springgunning.com/
http://www.bentaylorandson.co.uk/images/ad_0306.pdf
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=11782&mid=92524
http://www.airguns.citymax.com/stockinfo.html
And MANY more. At the high end of airgunnig, you can easily spend as much or more on a custom air rifle than on a powderburner. And I can shoot 500 rounds of match grade pellets for around $10 bucks.
Here are a couple of my Olympic grade target rifles dressed in German walnut -- pretty nice for a couple of "BB guns", eh?
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gvnwst
Member
TEC--what rifles (or stocks, if you changed it) are those? I have seen them before at matches, but i have never gotten the maker/model.
P.B.Walsh
Member
Yea, I'll stick with my stock, it's already nice and painted anyhow
The top rifle is a Walther LGR single pump pneumatic in .177. I found this one used for $800, in perfect condition. It has a beautiful RH German walnut stock. The bluing was perfect and the rifle looked almost new. The bottom rifle is a Walther LGR-Universal in a LH German walnut stock. Exceedingly hard to find, but I shoot lefty. The action on the LGR-U had some wear and the bluing had some rough spots. It was definitely a veteran of many matches when I bought it a year ago for $750. I swapped the like-new action off the RH LGR stock, and had the wood on the LGR-U refinished. The same fellow made the spacers for me and fitted the gun to my 6'4" wide-body frame. It fits me like no other rifle I have ever shouldered. Both actions shoot at 575 FPS with very little variation, and both are ridiculously accurate. I gave the swapped out right hander to my brother. I shoot my LGR-U almost every day, in the upstairs hallway at 10-meters, standing, off-hand. I have learned more about shooting in the last year shooting an Olympic match rifle than I learned in the 55 preceding years.
If you want to get serious about shooting off hand, read, re-read, and re-re-read this book, and keep it under your pillow when you aren't reading it:
http://www.mec-shot.com/images/waysrifle.jpg
If you want to get serious about shooting off hand, read, re-read, and re-re-read this book, and keep it under your pillow when you aren't reading it:
http://www.mec-shot.com/images/waysrifle.jpg
Painted stocks?
Well, it so happens I know a guy who paints stocks on BB guns, too. Here is a Gamo Hunter Elite .177 with a fall/winter custom camo job. It is my squirrel slayer. BTW, Ed never does the same camo job twice. They are always a one-of-a-kind work of art.
Ed Ehrisman. Heck of a nice guy! [email protected]
Well, it so happens I know a guy who paints stocks on BB guns, too. Here is a Gamo Hunter Elite .177 with a fall/winter custom camo job. It is my squirrel slayer. BTW, Ed never does the same camo job twice. They are always a one-of-a-kind work of art.
Ed Ehrisman. Heck of a nice guy! [email protected]
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Bob R
Member
Hmmmm.....
The Israeli's consider the .22 to make a fine "sniper weapon system"
A fairly interesting article with a few more pics.
http://www.ruger1022.com/docs/israeli_sniper.htm
bob
The Israeli's consider the .22 to make a fine "sniper weapon system"
A fairly interesting article with a few more pics.
http://www.ruger1022.com/docs/israeli_sniper.htm
bob
spiroxlii
Member
I personally own a Ruger 10/22 (my first rifle), a Marlin 60, and a Savage Mark II.
The Ruger and the Marlin are semiauto. The Marlin is MUCH more accurate in unmodified form. The Ruger CAN be highly customized to make it more accurate than the Marlin, but the Marlin starts out as the more accurate and more affordable rifle. The Marlin has a higher ammo capacity in its tube magazine than the Ruger does in its factory rotary magazine; however, the Marlin's tube magazine is not detachable. For small game hunting, this would not bother me, since marlin 60s come with a magazine capacity of 14 to 18 rounds, depending on how old they are. If you can't stop to reload after hitting (or missing) that many squirrel or rabbits, you should review your hunting habits.
The Savage Mark II is also VERY affordable and VERY accurate without any modifications, but it is a bolt action rifle. You may not get as high a rate of fire out of it, but you really should not be doing any rapid-fire while hunting for small game. Mine came with a 10 round magazine from the factory, so it at least meets that requirement. The thiing I really love about my Savage is that it isn't picky about ammo. Semiautomatic .22 rifles are notorious for being perfectly reliable with one type of ammo and awful jam-machines with others. A bolt or lever action rifle will eat whatever ammo you feed it, since the action is cycled manually and not dependent upon the ammo.
For the use you described, I'm guessing what you really want is a .22LR rifle or possibly one of the .17 caliber rimfires. You mentioned in your original post that .223 would be okay, but .223 is a very very different round from .22LR.
.223 Remington and .22 Hornet use bullets that are roughly .22 caliber in diameter, but they are centerfire rounds with a lot more power than typical rimfire cartridges used in small game hunting. The sporting use of .22 centerfire cartridges is generally varmint hunting (coyotes, groundhogs, etc). It is technically legal to use them on deer in some jurisdictions, but they are not considered ideal deer cartridges by many hunters. They are probably overkill for squirrels and rabbits.
.22LR is cheap enough to practice with A LOT. It is also up to the task of taking small game. Other rimfire cartridges that are common for small game actually use smaller diameter bullets that go much faster for a flatter trajectory than .22LR. You may have heard of .17HMR or .17HM2. These may offer some advantages in terms of long range accuracy, but they also cost much more than .22LR ammo.
.22WMR (commonly called .22 Magnum) is another common rimfire round. It looks like a longer version of .22LR, and it packs a slightly higher punch. Once again, though, it's more expensive to practice with than .22LR.
Final verdict: A good rifle chambered for .22LR will do what you want cheaply enough and accurately enough.
The Ruger and the Marlin are semiauto. The Marlin is MUCH more accurate in unmodified form. The Ruger CAN be highly customized to make it more accurate than the Marlin, but the Marlin starts out as the more accurate and more affordable rifle. The Marlin has a higher ammo capacity in its tube magazine than the Ruger does in its factory rotary magazine; however, the Marlin's tube magazine is not detachable. For small game hunting, this would not bother me, since marlin 60s come with a magazine capacity of 14 to 18 rounds, depending on how old they are. If you can't stop to reload after hitting (or missing) that many squirrel or rabbits, you should review your hunting habits.
The Savage Mark II is also VERY affordable and VERY accurate without any modifications, but it is a bolt action rifle. You may not get as high a rate of fire out of it, but you really should not be doing any rapid-fire while hunting for small game. Mine came with a 10 round magazine from the factory, so it at least meets that requirement. The thiing I really love about my Savage is that it isn't picky about ammo. Semiautomatic .22 rifles are notorious for being perfectly reliable with one type of ammo and awful jam-machines with others. A bolt or lever action rifle will eat whatever ammo you feed it, since the action is cycled manually and not dependent upon the ammo.
For the use you described, I'm guessing what you really want is a .22LR rifle or possibly one of the .17 caliber rimfires. You mentioned in your original post that .223 would be okay, but .223 is a very very different round from .22LR.
.223 Remington and .22 Hornet use bullets that are roughly .22 caliber in diameter, but they are centerfire rounds with a lot more power than typical rimfire cartridges used in small game hunting. The sporting use of .22 centerfire cartridges is generally varmint hunting (coyotes, groundhogs, etc). It is technically legal to use them on deer in some jurisdictions, but they are not considered ideal deer cartridges by many hunters. They are probably overkill for squirrels and rabbits.
.22LR is cheap enough to practice with A LOT. It is also up to the task of taking small game. Other rimfire cartridges that are common for small game actually use smaller diameter bullets that go much faster for a flatter trajectory than .22LR. You may have heard of .17HMR or .17HM2. These may offer some advantages in terms of long range accuracy, but they also cost much more than .22LR ammo.
.22WMR (commonly called .22 Magnum) is another common rimfire round. It looks like a longer version of .22LR, and it packs a slightly higher punch. Once again, though, it's more expensive to practice with than .22LR.
Final verdict: A good rifle chambered for .22LR will do what you want cheaply enough and accurately enough.
P.B.Walsh
Member
Well I ain't sending my air rifle off when I can do it myself, nice rifle though.
Maverick223
Member
+1, you need a .22LR for your first gun. Cheap to shoot, fun to shoot, easily controlled, and easy gun to learn/teach with.
deALPHAmale
Member.
If you're not afraid of a slightly higher price tag, might I recommend a Winchester Wildcat bolt action .22
You can get the regular edition for $259 and the Target/Varmint edition with a heavy contour barrel and drilled and tapped for scope mounts for $309. I have a different model Winchester .22 that is no longer in production, but I have fired the regular edition Wildcat and it is a fine gun. Bolt action rifles are my personal favorites, and the Wildcat will treat you well, even if you don't treat it well (though it looks so nice you can't help but want to). Very sturdy, adult looking rifle that will take a beating and still work; definitely not "just a plinker," though it makes plinking feel important.
You can get the regular edition for $259 and the Target/Varmint edition with a heavy contour barrel and drilled and tapped for scope mounts for $309. I have a different model Winchester .22 that is no longer in production, but I have fired the regular edition Wildcat and it is a fine gun. Bolt action rifles are my personal favorites, and the Wildcat will treat you well, even if you don't treat it well (though it looks so nice you can't help but want to). Very sturdy, adult looking rifle that will take a beating and still work; definitely not "just a plinker," though it makes plinking feel important.
rangerruck
Member
the guy above with the marlin 880 sq is right on, it is the best, cheapest, most accurate stock bolt 22 you can get, and spend less than 300 on. Marlin actually makes a bunch; new or used.
the 880 sq, the 795, the 7000, the 2000, even the mod 60 and the mod 981, with laminate stocks, would really do it.
oh yeah, the new savages, the btvs and varmint versions, are very, very , good.
check any of the Mark II rifles, f series, or B series.
http://www.savagearms.com/markiifvt.htm
the 880 sq, the 795, the 7000, the 2000, even the mod 60 and the mod 981, with laminate stocks, would really do it.
oh yeah, the new savages, the btvs and varmint versions, are very, very , good.
check any of the Mark II rifles, f series, or B series.
http://www.savagearms.com/markiifvt.htm
turkeythigh
Member
if you want accuracy and reliability out of your first rifle i would suggest a .22lr bolt or lever gun. the savage mkII is a very good gun but if you want a gun that is easily upgraded and has tons of aftermarket options i would go with the ruger 10/22, yeah it isnt that great out of the box but there is some cool stuff you can get for it. one thing i have been looking at for a while is this one. it allows you to use any AR fore grip, stock and pistol grip for your 10/22. and alows for aftermarket triggers designed for the 10/22 as well as bolts.
http://www.rbprecision.com/id120.htm
http://www.rbprecision.com/id120.htm
scythefwd
Member
SNL,
A .22 is a whole different league than a .223. One is a rimfire, the other is a centerfire. Are you open to all .22X calibers like the 22-250, 220 swift, .222, .223, .22lr, .22 mag or are you specifically looking for a purpose?
If you are looking for accuracy, at what range do you expect to be shooting and how big of a group would you like to get down to? That will narrow the options a lot. Also, have you looked at the 17 HMR? There is a guy who just posted a 10 shot group mostly under 3 inches at 300y with this rifle and that is very accurate.
A .22 is a whole different league than a .223. One is a rimfire, the other is a centerfire. Are you open to all .22X calibers like the 22-250, 220 swift, .222, .223, .22lr, .22 mag or are you specifically looking for a purpose?
If you are looking for accuracy, at what range do you expect to be shooting and how big of a group would you like to get down to? That will narrow the options a lot. Also, have you looked at the 17 HMR? There is a guy who just posted a 10 shot group mostly under 3 inches at 300y with this rifle and that is very accurate.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
I had already been shooting my grandfather's .22 rifle when I was given a Daisy Red Ryder BB gun as a Christmas present. That was Christmas of 1941.
I got my very own .22 rifle at age 11. A Marlin bolt-action. At 16, I started handloading for my .30-'06 in 1950.
As y'all might imagine, I've been in this general discussion a time or two through the years, and from looking back on my own experiences I do have some opinions about starting out.
So here's an old guy's opinion: A bolt-action .22 with iron sights is, I think, the best learning tool. Sight picture knowledge carries throughout one's shooting career. The "thinking time" when cycling the bolt helps one's self-discipline to avoid the temptation to spray-and-pray that is inherent in a semi-auto.
After a year or two along the learning curve, a person can always trade up to the world of semi-autos and scope sights and all that more advanced equipment.
My 2¢, FWIW...
Art
I got my very own .22 rifle at age 11. A Marlin bolt-action. At 16, I started handloading for my .30-'06 in 1950.
As y'all might imagine, I've been in this general discussion a time or two through the years, and from looking back on my own experiences I do have some opinions about starting out.
So here's an old guy's opinion: A bolt-action .22 with iron sights is, I think, the best learning tool. Sight picture knowledge carries throughout one's shooting career. The "thinking time" when cycling the bolt helps one's self-discipline to avoid the temptation to spray-and-pray that is inherent in a semi-auto.
After a year or two along the learning curve, a person can always trade up to the world of semi-autos and scope sights and all that more advanced equipment.
My 2¢, FWIW...
Art
Hopefully your parents are supportive of your interest in guns. Keep in mind that it's always easier to start small (or cheap) and build up a little at a time.
Here's my "Tacticool Precision Sniper" .22, it started life as just another Savage MKII BV. You could put something similar together for a reasonable amount of money and a little effort.
Here's my "Tacticool Precision Sniper" .22, it started life as just another Savage MKII BV. You could put something similar together for a reasonable amount of money and a little effort.
IndianaBoy
Member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2005
- Messages
- 1,551
CZ 452 Lux.
I can engage a target at any range from 5 feet to 200 meters.
Due to the trajectory of the 22lr, there isn't an option with a scope that is so versatile.... unless you are good at fast turret adjustments.
I regularly shoot steel at 200 meters with mine.
I can engage a target at any range from 5 feet to 200 meters.
Due to the trajectory of the 22lr, there isn't an option with a scope that is so versatile.... unless you are good at fast turret adjustments.
I regularly shoot steel at 200 meters with mine.
Acera
Member
This one works good for me, reliable, accurate, and easy to get parts and accessories for.
P.B.Walsh
Member
WC, and Acera, NICE .22s. NICE
Funderb
Member
help! hep! runaway thread!
P.B.Walsh
Member
He's right, let's get back to the main OP question.
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