Tell me about H&K Pistols

I worked for an employer that issued us the USP in 9mm, .40 and/or .45ACP. We finally went in another direction when the company no longer could nor would support us with both parts and service.

Decent enough pistols, totally unergonomic, oversized, possessed of average accuracy though fairly durable.

Overpriced. Not for me anymore.

I just want to say that Hk customer service is one of the best I have ever delt with. I know own three of their rifles, they are absolutly rock solid. My experience with their handguns is with the USP. I put nearly 3k rounds without a burp hick up or malfunction, just as expected. I honestly think the Hk barrels are that much better. Especially after going to Columbus ,Ga and seeing a 416 with over 120,000 through it. The only replacement part was the buffer spring at around 100,000 rounds. Kind of cool to see it beat to carp and still shooting.. Only wish they would have let me shoot it...

Your definition of "regular shooter" must be very, very different than mine.

Click to expand...

Yes, it is, by about a factor of ten, apparently. I would limit my definition to anyone who practices regularly, regardless of number of rounds fired. Quantity does not necessarily equal quality, but if you can afford a thousand rounds a month, more power to you. I wish I could.

Anyway, the high cost of ammo is exactly why someone might consider a less expensive pistol, or at least a .22 copy of their carry piece (or equivalent). Justifying an H&K by pointing out that the price difference is only the equivalent of 1,000 rounds is like comparing sparkling wine with Dom Perignon.

Insight on hammer forged barrels, they explode when they break.

Hk has been great for anything I needed[info, paperwork, etc]. As far as actual work on a pistol, one of my friends broke the safety off my early P9S. I sent them the pistol to have that fixed. When I got it back, it had 6 parts replaced in it that they considered too old[springs,buffer and such], and the safety lever. It was only 2 weeks, and FREE OF CHARGE. They did a detail cleaning while they had it apart. I've had 150-200 of their firearms, and that's the only time I've ever had to have them work on a single one. I did have a Model-4 break the frame, but it was because it had a bad buffer, and was in .380 caliber.

You've had 150-200 H&K guns? How in the world did you have time to shoot them all?

Yes, it is, by about a factor of ten, apparently. I would limit my definition to anyone who practices regularly, regardless of number of rounds fired. Quantity does not necessarily equal quality, but if you can afford a thousand rounds a month, more power to you. I wish I could.

Click to expand...

Proficiency with a duty/combat/defense pistol is attained through repetition and practice. If you're only shooting 1,200 rounds in a year, then in all likelihood the only proficiency attained is that of hitting a target at a casual snail's pace. When one practices engaging targets from various levels of readiness (from the holster, from low-ready, etc.) as well as magazine changes and target re-engagement, then 100 rounds a month is not going to be beneficial to maintaining all of those skill sets.

Anyway, the high cost of ammo is exactly why someone might consider a less expensive pistol, or at least a .22 copy of their carry piece (or equivalent).

Click to expand...

This thread isn't about rimfire facsimiles, it's about HK pistols, or as it seems...slamming HK pistols. If the cost of 1,000 rounds is the difference between you shooting this year or going completely without, then by all means, go straight to the bottom of the barrel if you'd like.

Justifying an H&K by pointing out that the price difference is only the equivalent of 1,000 rounds is like comparing sparkling wine with Dom Perignon.

Click to expand...

You've got it backwards. HK pistols need no justification. If the price difference between a Honda and an Acura is only a few fill-ups at the pump, why would you buy the basic Honda? To be able to say you spent less up front?

This board has a long-standing reputation of a cheapskate mentality. Some folks are adamant about buying the cheapest possible stuff, only to turn around and have to deal with the stress associated with the issues (*cough*Ruger*cough*).

HK makes excellent pistols. In the DA/SA category, they're one of the best production pistols you can buy. One can complain about the price, or they can try one for themselves. I'm not going to be buried with my money, so for me the choice is simple.

I have a P30L and a P7. Both have been rock solid reliable.

HK gets a real hammering on price... but compared to the amount of ammo you'll send through it, it's not that bad. There also isn't a HUGE amount HK can do about it as explained above with their costs and the exchange rate stinking. That being said I got the P30L for a hair under $800 and the P7 for $600. Both are very good deals compared to if I had to buy them now.

We can go back and forth on fit and finish or other things, but I mostly like that HK is offering stuff that others aren't. I like a hammer fired gun on my P30L. I like the myriad of hand variations I can change it to. I like the magazine release and would put one on every pistol I own if it were possible.

It's an option and what's worht the extra $$$ to me may not be to you. For example I couldn't justify the HK45 price when I paired it with my dislike for a manual safety.

One can complain about the price, or they can try one for themselves.

Click to expand...

Certainly so. If your one and only gripe about the HKs is the price, then you're doing yourself a disservice. Going cheap is no better "value" in the end than buying the expensive option just because of its rumored reputation.

There is nothing at all to say that shooting one, even giving one a real workout over a period of trial testing, will convince you that they're a better option than many of the big name makes.

Try lots of guns and pick the one you actually make the most accurate hits with, the fastest. If on the off chance that does happen to be an HK, well, save your pennies.

I bought a used USP45f in '98, and recently picked up a used HK45. The USP was reliable, accurate and required no maintenance with 10,000+ rounds through it. It would go long intervals without cleaning, and ate up all my reloads, most of which were lead. The gun was big and blocky, with a rubbery feel to the trigger. Recoil was light. It's an easy gun to shoot. I sold it a couple years ago. Bummer

The HK45 is similar, but drastically more ergonomic. It's been reliable. Its accurate. Mine came with both the DA/SA and LEM trigger groups. I prefer the DA/SA for range work. The SA trigger is very nice, right about 4.3#

I own several other handguns in 45acp, Sig P220, M&P45, 4 1911's and a revolver. I like them all (that's why I own them!) and shoot them in local steel plate matches.

I've been shooting for only about 21 years, but I've found that the cheapest option is seldom the best option, and often it ends up being not-so-cheap in the long run.

A few hundred bucks isn't the deal breaker for me. I want a good gun and hate to get something just because it's cheaper, unless its also BETTER. I "save" money regarding my shooting addiction by reloading...well, not really, I just shoot more for the same expenditure!

how about a picture?

boricua9mm said:

Your definition of "regular shooter" must be very, very different than mine. A case of 1,000 handgun rounds (to the tune of $400) would only last me a month. A month's worth of shooting and associated costs is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Click to expand...

I shoot about 600 a month and it only costs me about $75.

To answer the question, HK pistols are reliable, accurate, come with excellent warranty and support. Triggers are mediocre, initial costs is high, as are the cost of spare magazines.

One thing I've seen is no one complains about their reliability or durability

I shoot about 600 a month and it only costs me about $75.

Click to expand...

Now that is compelling information.

Buricua9mm's last post

Click to expand...

Ok, I take your points. Myself personally, I've shot a lot on the government's dime this year, so I have to concede the point of cost analysis, since I didn't pay for the ammo. And I'll also concede that bringing up a .22 may not have been relevant.

However, the Air Force's M9 pistol qualification course is reasonably dynamic, and only requires 90 rounds. Similarly, the Adjutant General's competition also involves several dynamic pistol iterations, and clocks in at less than 200 rounds total (not counting the rifle portion).

I stand by my notion that proficiency does not require hundreds of rounds, but rather a challenging course of fire, good instructors, and the willingness to learn.

boricua9mm said:

Your definition of "regular shooter" must be very, very different than mine. A case of 1,000 handgun rounds (to the tune of $400) would only last me a month. A month's worth of shooting and associated costs is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Click to expand...

If you are spending $400 on 1000 rounds you are obviously not reloading. Which for someone that claims to shoot as much as you do so you can be proficient and accurate that surprises me. Since handloading can give you much better ammo than the shelf. It seems a waste to spend all that time training and all that money on HKs and then shoot substandard ammo out of it.

boricua9mm said:

This board has a long-standing reputation of a cheapskate mentality. Some folks are adamant about buying the cheapest possible stuff, only to turn around and have to deal with the stress associated with the issues (*cough*Ruger*cough*).

.

Click to expand...

It also seems obvious you have never heard of Ruger P series, MK series, or any Ruger revolver.

TennJed said:

It also seems obvious you have never heard of Ruger P series, MK series, or any Ruger revolver.

Click to expand...

this board also has its share of Ruger hate and hyperbole

preface: I own 5 handguns currently...
2 P30's 9mm... one bought new, one bought used
2 P2000sk's 9mm... one bought new, onw bought used
1 Ruger SR22... bought new

my first ever was one of my P30's. When I went looking I reseached a lot of guns, I handled a lot of guns, and I shot as many as I could. My requirements came down to the following...
hammer fired
da/sa
10 rounds or more
ergonomics
ambidextrous... i'm left handed
no manual safety
reliability

When it was all said and done once I picked up the P30 it was all over for me. I love the way it feels. I loved the way it points. I love the way it shoots. I even love the way it looks.
I've shot Sigs, Glocks, Berettas, Ruger P and SR series and a couple 1911's whose makers left no memorable impressions on me. I can shoot them all effectively. The only ones that have ever put a smile on my face are the HK's I wound up buying. The SR22 comes close but it's more of a "fun" gun. Are they expensive? yes. Are the worth it? They are to me without question. There's a spot in my safe waiting for a pair of HK45's to show up.

Sgt.Murtaugh said:

The dealer was asking $1199 for it.

Click to expand...

Way cheaper to order one online:

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/21_47/Handguns/Heckler+&+Koch

Find a local guy to do the transfer for $10:

http://fflgundealers.net/

Interesting reading so far. I need to do some more fondling.

You've got it backwards. HK pistols need no justification. If the price difference between a Honda and an Acura is only a few fill-ups at the pump, why would you buy the basic Honda? To be able to say you spent less up front?

Click to expand...

Any product that costs more money than a similar competitor requires justification.

What will an Acura do that a Honda won't? Whether the price is $5k more or $5 more isn't relevant. We aren't talking about a Honda and a Maserati, where the difference is obvious.

Similarly, what will an Hk do that a Glock won't? Shooting an extra thousand rounds per week doesn't make the Hk a better gun, nor does it widen the gap between the Hk and Glock. Is the Hk better? Yeah, it probably is. It damn well better be. But is it twice as good? I can't see how that would be possible. Therefore, the price isn't justified.

I have been very satisfied with my H&K firearms.

For me the following were decisive factors:
USP I absolutely adore the safety/decock setup.
P30 and H&K 45 In my opinion, ergonomically the best pistols.
Elite, Expert and Match Excellent for target sports.
Mk 23 If you are collector you must have one. You will be surprised how well it shoots. Reliability and accuracy are super.

People generally complain about price. To me thats a very subjective issue. When it comes to personal preference price of a gun is irrelevant. One would pay in excess of $100,000 for an English shotgun, whereas a purpose/utility of a shotgun can be achieved with shotgun worth under $1000.

There is no end to this debate. If H&K prices were ridiculous they would have long gone out of business, but they have not. This means people are willing to pay to own a product they want to have.

Thank heavens we dont live in a world where the only handgun available was model grey, in grey color and in .X grey&grey caliber, and made by grey, grey & grey, and so on so forth.

When you buy a German HK, you're getting burned on the currency exchange rate.

Click to expand...

I hope you realize that the Euro is not synonymous with Germany??
After all Beretta, Glock, FN are all produced by Euro countries with that same exchange rate.

EVERY Glock I've been in contact has malfunctioned.

Click to expand...

Wait, what? I thought I was the only person on a forum to experience this phenomenon. we are certainly rare birds.

I concur entirely with post #4. I think SIG is a better compromise for the money, and I don't feel the need to kiss the ring of the H&K "we also sell to civilians when we feel like it" attitude.

The people who pooh-pooh HK prices are the same people who end up spending hundreds 'upgrading' their Glocks to run right or trying to find a 1911 mag that works reliably.

False economy.

and I don't feel the need to kiss the ring of the H&K "we also sell to civilians when we feel like it" attitude.

Click to expand...

I think you mean the internet hype, not attitude.