What distance to practice

My father is 73, worked with his hands his whole life, has sustained multiple serious injuries through the years, including some requiring surgery, and is currently on heart medication that has some nasty side effects. It doesn't keep him from being fit, though he was lamenting the fact that he's had to cut his bench press back to a mere 200 lbs when working out these days.

I'm 46, have done desk jobs since I got out of the Army in 93, and have sustained multiple serious injuries, including some requiring surgery. I wish I could work out with a 200 lb bench press.

One of us has a better mind set. Your guess as to which. I'm working on it, though. I intend to be as fit as my 73 year old father by the time I'm 50. Of course, he'll be 76 by then, so that should make it easier.

Practically speaking, a lot of martial arts training can be hard on someone with lower back issues and other joint issues. But getting fit, and building up all the tiny supporting muscles throughout your body -- not talking Ahnold here, just generally not being a couch potato -- will greatly help.

So, my advice is to first get fit. Then seek out some form of close combat training that your body can handle. It can be a formalized martial art or it can just be taking some weapon retention training. Doing some form of close combat training that's targeted at getting someone off of you so you can employ your weapon is important if you're going to carry one.

Here's a video of an older gentleman (Jeff Quinn from Gunblast) getting some force on force training. Basic techniques like the one taught in this segment shouldn't be beyond most folks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWleJXC88Eg

I should point out that my father's clearly some kind of mutant, and that I don't expect most older gentlemen (or ladies) -- or middle-aged ones -- to be ashamed of not being in that kind of shape.

The example was just meant to say "keep a positive mindset."

BLB68 said:

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But getting fit, and building up all the tiny supporting muscles throughout your body -- not talking Ahnold here, just generally not being a couch potato -- will greatly help.
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The bold part is key. I forget who said it but a good fitness quote is "Bobybuilding is the worst thing to ever happen to fitness in America."

Bodybuilding methodology is so pervasive I estimate that 90% of what people do when they lift weights is based on it. Isolation exercises, mostly on machines. This is not how the human body works.

Weights are great, but lift free-weights mostly standing on your own 2 feet (compound multi-joint exercises). No machines! This will build all of your stabilizing muscles and core and burn more calories and be a faster and more efficient workout than body part split routines.

Even if you like the bench press, OK, sub a burst-proof stability ball for the bench and grab a pair of dumb bells. Sit on the ball and walk out until the ball is supporting your back, tense your glutes and abs and flex your quads, grab the floor with your feet. You are making your body as rigid as a bench.

Now, our bench press works the core stabilizers, the chest of course and works the stabilizing muscles in the shoulder to a much greater extent with the 2 independent weights to stabilize over head.

I like to do free-weight circuits with little to no rest between exercises. Full body workout in ~20 mins including anaerobic cardio.

Trainng class is a good start. I would guess ten yards and in for majority of practice. However I think it's important to try different things. How about shooting from retention position at your side (don't do it without being trained lest you shoot yourself or weak hand); from the ground, sitting in a chair, out to 59 or 100 yards, on your side, weak hand, moving targets, targets at odd angles, etc. the more things you,try including close and far distances the better you will know your limitations.

I sure would not want a threat no closer than 30 yards the reason is if u can see him sweet ur way to closer dead if u see all of him and two cars on either side to far away u could be dead, why ur paying attentionto the cars not the threat if I were u id be safe at 35 to 40 yards that way ur eyes r on him at all times u have a chance to react

I shoot my handguns up to 75 yards from a supported position. I have fired at 100 yards before with some of them, particularly my SIG P-220. I have never fired my LCP at those distances though. I would recommend that you be well practiced in shooting handguns up to 25 yards while standing. At that distance, you should be able to easily keep all your shots on a man target, regardless of caliber or gun.

If I remember correctly 7 yard's is the averaged distance So 1/2 closer 1/2 longer I think need to practice at least to 25 yds. Even with a pocket pistol.

The instructor in my CCW class stated that since most gunfights happen between 3 and 7 yards, that more practice needs to be done close and the Tueller Drill is no longer of relevance. You gets to pick yer own poison, but regular practice to 25 fits me better. I find that I can do ok at 3 yards, passable at 7, but my precision and accuracy start to fall off past about 10 yards. 10 yards isn't very far....I'd rather be ready at a bit longer distance.

david58 said:

more practice needs to be done close and the Tueller Drill is no longer of relevance.

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It was my understanding that the main point of the Tueller Drill was to teach the student that someone can close distance quickly, so I don't know how typical engagement distances would make it any less relevant.

You understand correctly. That was just many of the statements that this fella dropped on the class. I just kept my mouth shut, endured the two days, and got my training certificate.

I hope I can detect the threat much further than 21' away.

David

I practice from 10 yds to 150 yds. with .41 mag, .44 mag and .38 spl. or .357 mag. .380's or markorov's not very good at 25 yds. YET.

I won't practice shooting at less than 7 yards. I take martial arts classes to prepare for those scenarios, because I might not be able to draw my revolver and get enough shots off before an attacker is on top of me.

That sounds like a good policy. Well, until I recall all the guys I've run into who could whup my butt and the zero I've run into who are bullet proof.

I won't practice shooting at less than 7 yards.

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Why not? Are you of the belief, as some others here apparently are, that the bad guy(s) will give you a warning prior to closing distance upon you and remain outside the magical 7 yard barrier?

Just my experience, but the bad people with bad intent whom I've encountered haven't let me know of their intentions until we were within speaking distance ... sometimes within bad breath distance.

We shoot our advance pistol qual courses at three yards, five yards, seven yards, ten yards, fifteen yards and twenty-five yards; all stages through fifteen yards incorporate movement and twenty-five yards is barricade shooting. I like to close sessions by having shooters attempt one shot only at fifty yards -- specifying either head or center of mass -- the "can you make the shot?" portion. More fun after having the shooters do twenty push-ups or run fifty yards immediately prior to taking the shot ...

Just my personal bottom line: there's no minimum or maximum distance for handgun practice. Gotta play around and run through scenarios.

You need to push your limits when you practice and always know what those limits are, don't settle for just being good enough for the average gunfight because if your only good enough for average 1/2 of the time you're not gonna be good enough.

Hammer059 said:

I won't practice shooting at less than 7 yards. I take martial arts classes to prepare for those scenarios, because I might not be able to draw my revolver and get enough shots off before an attacker is on top of me.

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You also need to think in opposite terms of your current view. I have tons of hand to hand training and wouldn't take the time to draw in close quarters either, but equally likely is drawing at distance and they close collapsing the distance. The gun is already out, might as well keep shooting while moving and bringing the gun in to a closer hold, then retention, then H2H.

I forget the trainer, but I read an article where the author stated the point of the retention position is not to draw into it, but you collapse back to it when the distance closes.

The actual data sample is small, but logic and common sense support his assessment

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Logic & Common Sense????, that's the problem with small samples.

zuman
That having been said, it's extremely unlikely that anyone is going to be able to charge me from even 10 ft and beat my ccw draw, from under a t shirt.

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10ft!? Have you actually tested this under pressure? I doubt you can reliably draw and fire with someone charging at 10ft, if you can more power to you. Of course, a charging person isn't just gonna stop because a puny handgun bullet hit them unless it hits the spine or brain.

From ten feet, the time would be three quarters of a second. Can you draw and fire from concealment in that among of time?

10ft!? Have you actually tested this under pressure?

First shot is about .8-.9 seconds from concealed here, it's not easy to make that 3/4 second mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyWas59ANQ8

My point is we were discussing a charging threat, starting at 10ft "if" you get a shot off under that pressure the bullet will slam into them as they slam into you. It won't stop them, backpedaling wouldn't help a whole lot either, they can move forward quicker than you can move backwards.

If someone was charging me from 10ft, I wouldn't try to draw no matter how fast I was, I'd lunge in (which would mess up their timing and give me more force) and go H2H.