Wilson and Baer

Thanks for sharing. I've always wondered about Baer guns. Sounds like they're nice, but there are nicer out there to be had.

Pictures would really help here, but I won't fault you if you can't or don't have the capabilities to post said pictures.

I'm not saavy enough to post pictures...or I'm just lazy and uninterested when it comes to computer nitty gritties.

If both pistols are about equally accurate I would let it slide.

Then again neither are exactly toys from a 25 cent vending machine and if you feel the Baer is lacking in quality and workmanship, send it back and have them remedy it.

Baer was caked with what may have been powder residue however, I tend toward it came from the factory that way - powder caking or bench dirt or both, just not sure but there was lots of it.

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So you took them both shooting right out of the box without cleaning the factory pacing oil out of them first???

OK, never mind.

Wish you would buy an Ed Brown now and tell us how it compares to the two you shot without cleaning first.

I really like that engraved Ed Brown Signature Edition!!

rc

Always been the case with Baer. If you wanted a shooter buy a LB, you wanted something pretty to look at buy something else.

Wilson doesn't want you to clean their pistols during break in.

Isn't there about $1,000 difference in price between those two pistols?

You could tell us how well the two guns hit the targets relative to each other, although I'd be surprised if they both didn't shoot very well. I'm always concerned about performance over cosmetics.

Wilson has a 1.5" guarantee at 25 yards, ahich is impressive. Baer's standard accuracy guarantee is 3"@50 yards. Their optional 1.5" guarantee is at 50 yards, and it still costs less than a Wilson. I couldn't care less what the inside looks like if it shoots like that!

I had a Nighthawk, came with the 1" guarantee test target at 15 yards. If I was going to down that 1911 road again, I'd get a Les Baer. But I've moved on from 1911s.

Seriously, guys. Do you wish to admire the inside of the slide or the target?

At the level of Wilsons and Baers, you are buying what you want and not what you need. Follow your hear and do not look back.

I love Wilson Combat...i hope to one day have a 1911 and a Beretta by them...they are just an awesome company

-Matt S.

I have admired these Limited Production 1911 guns and their producers for a long time, and I hope to own one of these someday. But for now, and on my own dime, a Dan Wesson Valor, an STI Trojan, or a Springfield TRP gets me close enough to the quality of the Wilsons, Baers, and Browns for a lot less $! The law of diminishing returns does apply here!

I'm a little envious that you have two such fine pistols, and I'm sorry you feel that the Baer was overpriced. Even at the less expensive of the two it's not cheap. But did I read that correctly that you had those guns for THREE YEARS before you even field stripped them? I don't know whether to shake my head in disbelief, or admire your restraint. I usually have a new gun field stripped before the NICS is done.

As a Baer fan I can somewhat relate to the rough interior finish when compared to a Sig 210. I don't know about Wilson, but my 210's are nicer finished in the inside then most commercial guns are on the outside. It is really hard to explain.

But.

At the range, my 1.5" Baer's will hold their own with the 210's. Some day I think the 210's are more accurate, some day my Baer's. In the end, I will forgive the Baer's rougher finish for the fine accuracy at around $1500 cheaper then the 210's.

Having worked for Les for 21 years (retired two years ago) I feel a few words in his defense are in order.

If your pistol is rough on the inside, you must have gotten the worst one we ever made. I have seen plenty of other people's pistols that far rougher on the inside than ours. If you want to see rough as a cob on the inside go look at a Winchester 97. Or a Luger. Most of them have machining marks on the inside that would make a buzzard puke. And I don't mean the late war guns, either. Any one here want to call a Luger a low quality gun?

Our guns cost far less than a Wilson for the same features. The same can be said for all of the other custom shops. Les keeps the cost down through a combination of efficiency, tight control over his supply (as in, make it yourself) and small size. He could be five times the size that he is now, but managing a small shop is easier.

Personally, I don't give a rat's rear end about interior finish on a gun. It's not what you look at when you pick the gun up. How it shoots is another matter.

I'm not a 1911 guy but if the difference is something it took 3 years to notice... I think I'd go with the less expensive LB.

HexHead:

Wilson has a 1.5" guarantee at 25 yards, ahich is impressive. Baer's standard accuracy guarantee is 3"@50 yards.

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Not picking a fight, but......isn't that the same thing?? Twice the sized group at twice the distance?

Sam

Steve S. said:

Also failed to mention that the Baer was a &@?$% !!!!! to tear down and reassemble - the Wilson was like handling butter both apart and together.

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What's really cool is in about 30,000 rds when your Baer is still nice and tight. I've got a little over 30K though one of mine, still zero play, still nice and tight and accurate.

Try taking it out of battery about .25", I use an old shok buffer between the barrel hood and breach face. Then the bushing turns by hand. As one of the posters pointed out, it's the only paying attention to the important surfaces that helps them keep their prices reasonable.

Chuck

I have to wonder if SteveS is trying to pull apart his Baer the same way you strip a G.I. 1911, by turning the bushing with the slide fully in battery, as the first thing you do.

NEVER ATTEMPT TO TURN THE BUSHING ON A HARD FIT CUSTOM 1911 WITH THE SLIDE IN BATTERY!!!! The barrel on our guns is enlarged , for the last 1/4" near the muzzle. This requires a carefully hand reamed and fitted bushing, first to the slide, and then to the barrel. This takes the barrel man quite a bit of time, but the result is a barrel that goes into battery with exact uniformity, every time, for tens of thousands of cycles. Turning the bushing when it is locked into the barrel while in battery can lead to all sorts of problems. It can score the metal on the barrel ever so slightly, leaving concentric wear marks around the barrel. They may be barely visable, but they will lead to trouble, induce wear, and eventually ruin the hard fit. The gun may continue to run just fine, but accuracy will slowly suffer.

ChuckRs idea is a very good one, but the bushing should STILL require a bushing wrench to turn. Your gun, if you bought it new, came with a blue widget. That little thing is perfect for Chucks method.

However, it is still best to strip the gun as instructed in the directions.

Baer & Wilson

Absolutely nothing I've owned (including several model Les Baer's and one Wilson 1911) was superior to the Les Baer Monolith Heavy in any respect. The Les Baer pistols I've owned were all good pistols as were the other Customs.

However, the Mono Heavy was a GREAT pistol. Not even the Springfield Professional FBI pistol I had was as good a pistol. Neither was the Cylinder & Slide. Neither was the Yost. Neither was the Clark. Neither is the Ten X. Les Baer can build a pistol on par with anyone and anything I've owned. Based on my personal experience (caveat "your mileage may vary").

If you want to see what a gun with rough machining on the inside looks like - look at any Colt made prior to the last 10 years on the old worn out machines they used since WW I. Compared to those a Les Baer (or even a Springfield from IMBEL) looks like it was machined at a Ferarri or a BMW plant. Personally I really don't care what the interior looks like either if the barrel is properly fitted by someone who actually understands how the gun works. I really do like the way Baer finishes his guns. And that checkering work is to die for. After you have checkered a few pistols you will appreciate the quality of that checkering. I cannot even begin to imagine doing hand checkering all day every day - and doing it that nicely. Tark - I bow to you.

Les Baer also offer's a 1.5in package at 50 yards