Compare Wilson,baer,Ed Brown

[cerberus]

I found this on the 1911 Forum. I think it's a really good Compair report.
================

quantico
1911 lover

Registered: Sep 1999
Location: Wisconsin

I had a chance to compare Wilson,baer,Ed Brown 1911's in a gun shop...

I have been looking to buy a single high end 1911 for some time as I wish to concentrate on shooting one gun type. Hopefully I can improve my IDPA skills and overall confidence in making fast shots on the move and in a hurry. I have been shooting 1911's for 25 years... but also shoot glocks , sig's , and HK's . I like the other guns and tend to shoot one then another for a while. I decided that going back and forth between different triggers and grips and sights was keeping me from achieving whatever skill level I might have if I really spent time with one gun type.

Over the last couple years I evaluated my skills and the ergonomics on several different gun types, I finally chose the 1911 as the single best handling / most comfortable / most rounds fired and most instinctual pistol for me. I have considered Wilson / ed brown / and les baer pistols , but have not had an opportunity to examine all of them. Finally a local gun shop started to specialize in some high end 1911's and I got a chance to compare back to back / gun to gun the triggers and overall feel of each. here is what I found...

The Wilson guns seem to have good fit and finish, but I feel that they are overpriced a bit. The CQB was a nice machine for the money, but I did not like the looks of year old CQB's as the paint usually was falling off or in rough shape in the high wear areas. I have fired wilson pistols... and decided that the best bet for me would be the all stainless protector / 5 inch.. The outside of the wilson looked good, but the inside machining had some rough areas and the barrel bushing fit was not good. The trigger had some creep but the pull weight was about right. There were some sharp edges left in the slide around the barrel ... and the lockup was a bit loose.


The Les Baer TRS really dissapointed me. The gun had many parts that seemed to not fit well. The grip safety bump hit my hand in a way that was very uncomfortable, the hammer safety sometimes worked and sometimes was impossible to move despite being dripping in oil. The trigger pull was too heavy for my taste and the slide to frame fit was loose and sloppy. The barrel bushing fit was also fairly loose and the metalwork was not polished well before the gun was blued. From all that I had heard about baer guns being tight this gun was not normal. The gun shop owner told me that baer stopped making guns that tight as it was making them unreliable. This unfired gun was not in the same class as the wilson... although it was cheaper ...it was not cheap enough to make me consider it.

Next I looked at an Ed Brown executive elite and executive carry ... these pistols were more expensive than the wilson or baer by quite a few dollars... but quality was evident in every area of the pistols. The fit and finish was perfect... just right. I could not find a rough edge inside or outside the pistol. The trigger pull was crisp and maybe a pound or two heavier than I would like, but then I like very light triggers. The metal work was polished with great attention to detail . I just loved the overall feel of the pistol and how everything worked. The executive has more traditional grooves cut into the grip frontstrap and it was not too sharp or too smooth. I will now need to check out the kobra in the full size and the carry version to choose between them for my final purchase. The kobra is 300 dollars less due to the amount of time it takes to cosmetically finish the pistol.

I have fired wilson guns... did not get a chance to shoot the baer or ed brown gun.... but the brown pistol really impressed me. I think my search for gun type is over... I think the brand is now selected... all that remains is to compare the kobra to the executive elite in feel.... and sell a couple more guns to fund the purchase. I hope to have a kobra or kobra carry / maybe an executive elite ... in a few months... It's hard to pick out a gun without shooting one... but it is impossible to pick one out without handling one to see for yourself what the product feels like in your hands.

__________________
member 1911 forum # 4545

 

[Dave Sample]

Ed Brown is the only 1911 I recommend. Aside from the fact that I have known him for 20 years and do business with him for parts, I know how he builds guns. His work is very close to mine and he knows 1911's. I was building 1911's from parts when he was tweaking factory guns and he used to think I was nuts, but times have changed for the better in the 1911 field. Like me, he never needs to test fire them because if you build them right, they have to run. They have no choice. They are worth every penny and I do not think you can buy anything better for any amount of money unless you have a Pistolsmith build you one from parts. I handled several of them at the Shot Show and they were as nice as it gets. He has different ideas about mainspring housing shapes, but if you look at the old Devel S&W's, you will see the shape of his new round butt mainspring housings. They are very nice to hold. If I had to buy a 1911 from anyone, it would be him. He is a great man to do business with and I have never had a problem with him in 20 years. You never hear anything negative about his 1911's on any forums that I know about. That says a lot. I showed him EAGLE ONE at the Shot Show and I think he liked it. At least he said he did. There were a lot of his parts in it including the hammer, sear, ambi thumb safety (Revised by me), beavertail, slide stop, and some other stuff like the sear spring. To build a great gun, you need the very best parts you can buy. That is what he does now, as I did back then.

 

[Rich357]

I bought a Les Baer TRS last Spring and so did a friend. We have not had had any of the problems mentioned in that comparison report. Our TRS are reliable, accurate and fun to shoot.

The slides on our two TRS are tight but smooth. The barrel bushing fits very well. No slop on anything. The trigger is a crisp 4 lbs.

I would prefer to have a white outling around the night sight capsules but that is the only nit I can pick.

Rich

 

[El Tejon]

Have owned all 3.

I now have 4 TRSs. With the exception of the 4th TRS (burr on barrel leg), all have performed exceptionally--heck, unlucky #4 runs like a champ, it just wouldn't go back together.:banghead:

 

[Kruzr]

I've got 2 TRS's and the one you looked at doesn't sound like any I've ever seen. That notwithstanding, I also have an Ed Brown and I'd rate it above both my Baer's and the Wilson's I've handled and shot. The workmanship is second to none and unlike my Baers, I can field strip my Brown with bare hands.

Like me, he never needs to test fire them because if you build them right, they have to run.

When I called Ed Brown, I was told Ed fires at least 4 magazines full through each gun.....just to make sure.

 

[1911WB]

Baer

After experiencing about 20 1911's over the years: mostly Colt's, several SA's & several Kimbers, I finally got a Baer full sized SS (Concept VI) about 5 years ago. It is tight (the only real complaint I've heard or read about Baers), extremely well-fitted, extremely accurate with any ammo I've tried (different factory ball & HP's, and my ball reloads), and has the best trigger by far on any 1911 I've had. It's never had any type of malfunction or bobble. To be fair although I've seen & handled Wilsons & Browns, I've never shot either. My next 1911 purchase is likely going to be another Baer or possibly a Brown.

 

[Mikul]

I have to agree to an extent. I've never handled an Ed Brown.

Wilson is leaving all kinds of burrs on their guns. I've seen hammer and grip safety burrs. The triggers have been showing up way too light (about a pound on one gun that I saw). People who have ordered custom features on their guns (and paid dearly for them) have had those features ignored or done improperly.

Les Baer makes a beautiful gun. They look perfect, they feel solid and beefy. They're a joy to behold. Just don't shoot them too much before you clean them. I've seen Baer's that wouldn't shoot more than 50 round before they would fail to feed. Wipe the inside of the gun down and they were good for another 50 rounds. One of these guns went back to Baer and they improved on the gun. The shooter could then run 150 rounds throught the gun before it would fail to feed. He sold the gun. They're tight, and perhaps with jacketed bullets and very clean burning powder they'd be okay, but I'd hate to have a gun that runs that close to the line.

Take a look at an STI. So far I like what I see from their single-stack line. I've seen mixed reviews on the double-stacks.

 

[Zardoz]

Don't overlook Rock River Arms.

There have been some complaints (on the 1911 board) of Ed Brown not excepting the fact that a gun has a problem and getting repair was a chore but all in all he makes great guns. And he DOE'S test fire them.

 

[Mylhouse]

cerberus....

What do you care about Wilson, Baer, or Brown? Less than a week and a half ago you were spouting off about how great your Kimbers are and how the semi-customs were overblown, overpriced hype! Do I sense hypocrisy or schizophrenia?

 

[ssr]

That doesn't sound like any TRS I've ever seen or heard about (loose and sloppy?).

I have 1911s from all three. I have 4 Baers, they are all terrific pistols that function flawlessly. My Wilson is also good, no complaints. My Kobra Carry is a beautiful pistol that is finished very well, but it has not been reliable enough to carry.

 

[halvey]

My Kobra Carry is a beautiful pistol that is finished very well, but it has not been reliable enough to carry.

What's been the problem? I've been looking long and hard at one, but have balked because of the price.

 

[HankB]

I have a Baer Premier II which is exceptionally reliable and accurate. The one malfunction I had - failure of the slide to lock back - was directly traced to a bad magazine. I mostly shoot my own lead bullet reloads, and have fired up to a couple of hundred rounds before cleaning with nary a bobble. The TRS mentioned at the start of this thread sounds very atypical.

I've seen Wilson guns in action at local matches and classes, and would describe them as "inconsistent." Some I've handled seemed comprised entirely of sharp edges, which is OK if you're only going to shoot a few rounds, but a lot of guys with Wilsons are wearing band-aids on their hands by the second day of a pistol class.

And the way Wilson prices are going up . . . no thanks, not for me.

Ed Brown guns - the few I've seen in action - all seemed to work fine, and appeared to be put together quite nicely. But in a side-by-side comparison with a Baer, I really couldn't see what the extra $700 was buying . . .

 

[halvey]

should I buy a semi-custom or not...?

I'll preface my question by saying this: I've shot Baers and RRA's, and handled Browns. They are super sweet.

But exactly what are you getting for the extra $$ of say a Kimber? OK, before you flame me, and I don't intend this to go that way, but I have a Kimber Gold Match (NOT II) that I get 1" groups @ 25 yards off a rest. I'm even thinking with a tighter bushing the GM can shoot better. Now I know the internals are better on the above and the finish is better. But really, am I paying twice the price for a better finish? I mean I know these can shoot 1.5" @ 50 yards, and I really want one, but will I ever shoot at 50 yards? and will I ever be able to hold that group?

I've had some others that quite frankly had disappointing groupings. 4" @ 25 yards is not for me. I want to know if the group is off it's my fault. That said, I can't outshoot my Kimber - and I'm a decent shot.

So if I'm not too fussy about a super nice finish and am willing to replace internals as they break, should I just maybe skip the semi-custom?

 

[BigG]

I've not checked out a mass produced Baer but when he was turning them out one by one I was agog at how the bbl locked up and the attention to detail.

 

[Guns_and_Labs]

I'd love to consider a Brown. They are truly beautiful and functional, etc. But they aren't available in the PRK!

Mr Brown, please have pity on us...send a sample or two into the Sacramento gnomes so that I can buy one legally!

 

[El Tejon]

In the interest of full disclosure, I sent my #4 TRS to Les Baer. Les fixed it without charge and it now snaps back together as it should.

 

[kcrowder]

I have owned guns from all of the above, so I have a pretty good point of reference. I now only own six Les Baer's, and some stuff from Ted Yost. The point about the TRS having a loose slide/frame fit, and the comment about a loose bushing fit, are about as far from anything I have ever seen. On the whole they (Baer's) are tighter (doesn't mean good or bad) than the other two makers.

Now, for the comment about not shooting them to much before cleaning them, get real. In the last two weeks i've put over 2000 rounds through one of my TRS', and it has not been cleaned. It looks like you know what, and from all the crap this particular gun has gone through I really need to get it reblued, but cleaning after 50-150 rounds, NOPE.

Would I recommend Baer over the others, no I would not. The TRS happens to fit me my hand better than the Wilson CQB's or the Kobras' I had. In fact any gun with a EB grip safety doesn't work for me, but that's me. Find a gun that fits, that has pretty good parts, and get over the name that somebody stamped on the slide. Heck, I just bought a couple of Glock 17's, now those are strange looking guns.

You can get a Kobra Carry in Ca. Reed's in San Jose has one on the shelf.

 

[Rinspeed]

What I don't understand, and maybe some of you can help me here, is why the majority of negative comments about Les Baer pistols come from those that don't own one. Yet most that actually do own one have nothing but very positive feedback on both accuracy and reliability. I don't have my TRS broken in yet but it has been 100% reliable so far and I'm quite happy with it. Only time will tell for me if I made the right decision.

Rinspeed

 

[farscott]

But exactly what are you getting for the extra $$ of say a Kimber?

Short answer is, "it depends". One thing that one surely is buying is the cachet of a semi-custom brand. The Baers, Wilsons, and Browns are sexy because they are relatively scarce, relatively high-priced, and marketed to a high-end niche crowd. They all have reputations as good performers and are marketed by famous smiths. Some of the price premium is the result of the marketing and the name of the smith.

A semi-custom SHOULD also show lots of attention to detail, some hand fitting, and the ability to choose parts/features. The latter needs to be true for a pistol to be "semi-custom"; otherwise, the pistol is "production", mass or otherwise. There needs to be some customization for a pistol to be "semi-custom". How much is a darn good question. The first two attributes result from the assumption that skilled smiths build the pistols as opposed to "assembly line" assembly. I suspect that the assumption may not always be true, especially on the lower-cost offerings of some of the semi-custom firms.

A semi-custom pistol almost always (an exception is Rock River Arms) uses as many of the manufacturer's parts as possible. One does not often see a Baer pistol built with Wilson parts, and one expects Brown's parts in one of his pistols. If you like a particular line of parts, a pistol built by that company may have lots of appeal. The parts make a large difference in a semi-custom and a "factory" offering. Very few semi-customs are shipped with MIM parts or other parts perceived to be poor quality.

Semi-custom pistols seem to be associated with lower volume and better customer service. Part of the price premium is that a customer with an issue can often speak with the owner of the company. Since the owner is a smith with an accomplished past, a customer expects that the owner understands the intricacies of making a 1911 run. Every semi-custom is supposed to run perfectly and shoot small groups while some factory guns may (perhaps, should) exhibit these attributes.

 

[lunde]

Guns_and_Labs, you wrote:

love to consider a Brown. They are truly beautiful and functional, etc. But they aren't available in the PRK!

Mr Brown, please have pity on us...send a sample or two into the Sacramento gnomes so that I can buy one legally!

As of mid-Summer, exactly one Ed Brown pistol is approved for California, an all-stainless Kobra Carry with night sights and ambi safety. I ordered mine in early May, and it got to my dealer at the end of July. Some photos of mine...

 

[C. H. Luke]

Never had the chance to own a Brown. Have a Baer PII with his 1.5" acc. and while it did have some teething problems it broke in fine after ca. 500 rounds.
As handload Les did provide some "Break-in loads and some practice or "power-factor" loads for after break-in. {The former were quite a bit stouter}

It will outshoot any of the other 1911's have/had and is exceptionally acc. even with generic handloads & plated bullets.

Only other 1911 have found that like as much is a used RRA Limited Match.

RR's are exc. choices as you may spec. them almost exactly as you want.

 

[Richard.Howe]

I have owned an EB EE and a LB SRP. The SRP is still in my possession, the EB is not. The differences between guns in this rarefied air are minimal, and often just come down to personal preference. Handle both, pick one, shoot much and often. You CANNOT go wrong with either.
Rich

 

[halvey]

And another thread raises from the dead!!

 

[Rinspeed]

And another thread raises from the dead!!

Funny how they come back isn't it. Wow nice pics of a purty pistol Lunde. What kind of camera were those shot with. How many rounds through the Kobra so far and have you had any issues.

Rinspeed

 

[C. H. Luke]

"Don't overlook Rock River Arms."

Not knocking Brown's but RR's are excellent guns in their own right and generally a bargin.