On a more serious note

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First they need to shut down the isis and other terror groups social media presence completely, it's not a first amendment right to recruit American kids to murder Americans and citizens of the world. 25,000 went to train with ISIS this year, 7000 have returned, their job is to recruit and destroy American interests and take the lives of Americans whenever possible.
we are just starting to see effects of this in recent months.
Kids from single parent homes with no strong father or mother figure, to keep them on the straight and narrow, are going to be seduced by many things, and this is the Crack of the 2015 era.
But leaving guns around when your kids bring in other kids is a sure way to eventually have an issue. I know my dad was a strong leader of men, I was exposed to that at a young age when he started taking me to work with him at 12 years old and I saw how he was respected in the factory he worked his way up from bench worker to plant manager.
But other kids I knew had no such a figure in their lives and were screwed by the time they turned 15-18 years old, now even younger.
Stealing cars and doing drugs, "I am 67, and guns back when I was a kid, were around, but almost no one carried one unless they were a cop.
Now from a trip to the gun show yesterday, it is easy to see how many people who don't have the intelligence of a flea are carrying guns. I am pro gun, but anti stupid. If a person is an idiot they should not have the ability to own a gun, and here is why, my grandkid might be in that persons house when that person decides to shoot someone or leaves his or her loaded 357 on the table in a room where a half dozen kids are playing, Call of Duty, or some other game.
It's not a stretch for a kid to get excited and pick up the idiots gun, and shoot himself or another kid, or get into a tug of war trying to grab the gun from another kid.
That's how half this stuff happens, by accident, but an accident that could have been prevented.
Now you can yell and scream about second amendment rights all you want, I wrote more letters on the subject to more senators and congressmen than most ever did, I always say, "don't debate in a room full of people who already agree with you, go an try to change the minds of the ones who don't". But just like you take grandpa's keys away when he keeps hitting the side of the garage every time he pulls his car out, it's the same with guns. If you can't handle the responsibility of ownership, which includes storage and securing the weapon when not in use, than you shouldn't have one. If your kid brings your gun to school, you should loose your rights to carry a gun period. You are putting other people kids at risk and you have no right to do that.
Life is not all about any one person, it's about living in a civilized society, which we are quickly moving away from, due to a lack of fundamental leadership from the top down.
If a kid can't figure out that bringing a gun to school is going to cause a ****storm of problems for him and his family, then there are some damaged brain cells there. They watch enough TV to know what's going to happen if they get caught. Some may be that smart, that they know they're parents are going to get in a load of trouble for allowing this to occur, It might be intentional in some cases for a kid to act out like that to burn his mother and father.In any case if that gun was properly secured then the kid could not do this. Put a lock on the bedroom door, and put the gun in a locked drawer, that would be the least you could do if money was an issue. @0 bucks for a lock and your done, until you have enough for a safe saved up.
 
Can you explain how you know that all gun owners leave guns laying around our homes?

How exactly do you know that all gun owners bear that level of paranoia?

I don't think anyone can or should ever say all (all members of a group, race, gender, etc.).


But to answer your questions above, I would say every. Because every. single. gun owner. I have ever met. At a range, at a gun show, anywhere. Have all said the exact same things. Over. and over. and over.

And the common thread (as it applies to this discussion) has always been:

a.) I should be able to do whatever I want and own whatever I want and no one by God better tell me anything different.

b.) I should not be held responsible for what happens. If a kid gets my gun and kills someone with it, then it's everyone else's fault BUT mine. Because. 2nd Amendment.

c) no place is safe, people EVERYWHERE are out to get me, and I must be ready to instantly kill at a moment's notice (often times with zero training).

And what upsets me, and what upsets most of America is that, not all, but every single gun owner I've ever met, is so poop scared of even the most minute infraction of what they see as an absolute right (which, obviously, it's not) that they would rather let a kid get their gun and get hurt or killed, than just do the right thing. And then, when someone suggests a law requiring them to do the right thing, they go through the roof.

The ONLY place ANYONE wold argue against gun security is on a site like this, or at a gun range.

I think we're done here. I know I am.
 
I don't think anyone can or should ever say all (all members of a group, race, gender, etc.).


But to answer your questions above, I would say every. Because every. single. gun owner. I have ever met. At a range, at a gun show, anywhere. Have all said the exact same things. Over. and over. and over.

And the common thread (as it applies to this discussion) has always been:

a.) I should be able to do whatever I want and own whatever I want and no one by God better tell me anything different.

b.) I should not be held responsible for what happens. If a kid gets my gun and kills someone with it, then it's everyone else's fault BUT mine. Because. 2nd Amendment.

c) no place is safe, people EVERYWHERE are out to get me, and I must be ready to instantly kill at a moment's notice (often times with zero training).

And what upsets me, and what upsets most of America is that, not all, but every single gun owner I've ever met, is so poop scared of even the most minute infraction of what they see as an absolute right (which, obviously, it's not) that they would rather let a kid get their gun and get hurt or killed, than just do the right thing. And then, when someone suggests a law requiring them to do the right thing, they go through the roof.

The ONLY place ANYONE wold argue against gun security is on a site like this, or at a gun range.

I think we're done here. I know I am.

Well, I'm glad you're done here, because you certainly lost me with your three "common thread (s)" above.

Nice of you to flat out claim that I, and everybody else here, are some kind of delusional, paranoid anarchists with absolutely no sense of personal responsibility.

Way to go.

:scrutiny:
 
You said that you shouldnt say "all" , but in the next paragraph you say "every". Is there a difference between the two?

I dont think the other members are against gun safety measures, I think they are against others intruding into their homes and families with the liberal attitude of "I know better than you, so you have to do what I say". I can understand it, since Liberal politicians are constantly using it to push the agenda.

I think that people get upset over having their rights infringed is due to that fact that most of the infringements we have seen have been ineffective in their goal. They have been effective at hindering legal and law abiding gun owners. I think that we fear if we give up a little, they will take as much as they can. We know when they say words like "Compromise", they dont.
 
There is a clever saying, that I can't recall, but the gist of it basically says that if everyone else is wrong and you are the only right one then maybe it is you that is wrong.

Above you mentioned being called a Fudd. It is now obvious why you made that statement.

Probably should change my name to Mr. Fudd LOL. That's what people think of me, anyway. =)
 
larryh1108 said:
There is a clever saying, that I can't recall, but the gist of it basically says that if everyone else is wrong and you are the only right one then maybe it is you that is wrong....
On the other hand:

  • “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.”
    ― Mark Twain

  • “Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.”
    ― Leo Tolstoy, A Confession

  • “The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widely spread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.”
    ― Bertrand Russell, Marriage and Morals

  • “The only tyrant I accept in this world is the 'still small voice' within me. And even though I have to face the prospect of being a minority of one, I humbly believe I have the courage to be in such a hopeless minority.”
    ― Mahatma Gandhi, The Essential Gandhi: An Anthology of His Writings on His Life, Work, and Ideas

  • “In matters of conscience, the law of the majority has no place.”
    ― Mahatma Gandhi, Anthropology of Morality in Melanesia and Beyond, The. Anthropology and Cultural History in Asia and the Indo-Pacific.

  • “The majority is almost always wrong. The crowd is untruth. Scapegoating is demonic.”
    ― Brian Zahnd

  • “Nothing is good but mediocrity. The majority has settled that, and finds fault with him who escapes it at whichever end.”
    ― Blaise Pascal, Pensées

  • “The voice of the majority is no proof of justice”
    ― Friedrich Schiller, Maria Stuart

  • “Majority wins, but majority is not necessarily right and sometimes majority is awfully wrong.”
    ― Amit Kalantri
 
Four more kids arrested in a plan to kill students and teachers at their High school. Names are being withheld because of age. This one was caught in the early stages. But it's becoming a nightmare. I got it from Comcast, and my wife said she also saw it on CNN. What are we to do? Israel has not had one since they armed the teachers, they are always pro active, as they were with planes at their hanger in LaGuardia, I remember my uncle Mike was Operations Manager of Eastern Airlines, and they had this back in the late 60's early 70's.
The problem with it is cost, it was extremely expensive back then, but they did it anyway. It would preassurize the entire plane in a specially built hanger, but they have a lot less activity than any single American Airport that handles commuter/passengers.
We need to arm teachers or allow civilian volunteers, or pay retired cops or something else quick as this seems to be catching on even at a faster rate as of late with ISIS influencing kids to commit acts of terror.
 
I have heard from several sources that parents volunteer to patrol their children's schools in Israel. They are armed, concealed, 1-2 hour shifts, wear school supplied name badges. They walk the halls and perimeter doing door checks.

I dont think this would be a bad idea here, but it would be difficult to get everyone on board.
 
Because every. single. gun owner. I have ever met. At a range, at a gun show, anywhere. Have all said the exact same things. Over. and over. and over.
Then a,b, c.

Strange, I don't know any gun owners like that. I guess we hang out with differing selections of aquaintances. :rolleyes:
 
It just amazes me that after all the accidental kid shootings, I mean truly accidental things, nothing intentional, AND the school shootings by young people with their family members guns...that anyone ANYONE would suggest that locking up guns is a bad idea or too much of an inconvenience, or is some infringement on their rights.

It is not an infringement to suggest that someone should lock up their gun.

It is an infringement to make a law that says they have to.
 
Bingo.

Just like you don't hand power tools to a five year old, be smart with any piece of equipment you have. I have kids that I love very much, so I make sure they stay safe in their childish naivete and ignorance. But to have a law that states I must do such and such is both unenforceable without violating due process and protection from unreasonable search and seizure and abdicates personal responsibility to the whim of the state.
 
I totally agree. If your kid would bring a gun to school, there are some hidden issues. The gun didn't bring itself to school.

But it's not just your kid you have to worry about. It's every friend who comes over to play video games when you're not home. And don't say "My kid is not allowed to have friends over when he is alone." That's a cop-out. You know darn well that adolescents break rules. So even if your kid is awesome, let's assume he or she is, that isn't the only thing going on out there.

It just amazes me that after all the accidental kid shootings, I mean truly accidental things, nothing intentional, AND the school shootings by young people with their family members guns...that anyone ANYONE would suggest that locking up guns is a bad idea or too much of an inconvenience, or is some infringement on their rights.
People need to be prosecuted for allowing their kids access to guns and then the kid hurts others or violates the law with them.

Your kids brings your gun to school, felony for you. Making it so you never get to own guns again.

Your kid shoots another kid with your gun, manslaughter for you

Feel free to leave your guns out
 
I'll add that so far on this thread everyone has addressed mandatory locking of guns. We can all agree that is an infringement. But what about prosecution of something happens?
 
People need to be prosecuted for allowing their kids access to guns and then the kid hurts others or violates the law with them.

Your kids brings your gun to school, felony for you. Making it so you never get to own guns again.

Your kid shoots another kid with your gun, manslaughter for you

Feel free to leave your guns out

your kid steals the keys to your car and goes on a joy ride and runs someone over.......should you be charged with manslaughter?
 
People need to be prosecuted for allowing their kids access to guns and then the kid hurts others or violates the law with them.

Your kids brings your gun to school, felony for you. Making it so you never get to own guns again.

Your kid shoots another kid with your gun, manslaughter for you

Feel free to leave your guns out
Some thug breaks into your home and crowbars open your gun safe, steals your guns, and uses them to commit multiple crimes. Should you be held responsible?

Your kid steals your prescription pain meds, despite the childproof container any 4 year old can bypass, and OD's. Should you be help responsible? What if he sold those meds to another kid and that kid OD's? Are you going to be held responsible?

Recently in Grand Rapids, MI, a 13 year old boy was convicted of murder. He stabbed a 9 year old kid in a park, called 911 and confessed, then waited to be gunned down by the police. That never happened. His parents were not charged with the death of the 9 year old victim (although the mother was convicted of child abuse, neglect and endangerment based on the evidenced gathered during the murder investigation).

When our "justice" system starts holding people accountable for the actions of others, freedom and liberty are gone. We've (well, our government) been making the mistake of punishing the law abiding for the actions of criminals for far too long, and you want to increase that?
 
I had access to guns as a kid and so did my children but what they didn't have access to was violent video games, slasher movies and the Getto culture. We also hunted so there was no misunderstanding as to what a firearm can do.
I grew up with guns freely available inside the home, playing "violent" video games, and with the stupid, "being a thug is cool" culture.

Never brought a gun to school or committed a senseless act of violence. Never associated with scumbag losers, and certainly didn't bring them to my home. Neither did any of my siblings, cousins, or close friends - and we were all raised the same way, with guns around the houses, and with violent media and a stupid pop-culture around us. Stop blaming stupid crap. It's PARENTING. Some people do it properly. Others don't give a damn, or simply can't spend enough time, or genuinely don't think it's that important. And then there's the occasional kid with a legitimate mental illness.

Your kid is out committing crimes? If there's no mental illness present, then you failed as a parent. Maybe it wasn't intentional; maybe you tried your best. It doesn't help that our society values monetary wealth above pretty much all else. The average two-parent household has both parents working. That doesn't allow much time for being with your kids, which is as important in their teen years as it is in their single-digit years - if not even more important.
 
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Well in this case, you can call it accurate.

I'm not; I searched news sources and found nothing, so please provide a link to a credible source or this didn't happen. If it did happen, it would have been all over the news.
 
No.

When I was a kid there were loaded guns around the house, I was taught right and never touched them without permission. If I wanted to go shooting I'd ask and we'd step out in the back yard and shoot. Teaching your kids obedience and respect is how to keep them from taking a gun to school, not locking up your collection and hoping they don't get their hands on one of the other 300 million firearms in the country.

Is locking them up a good idea in addition the above mentioned? Sure, go for it. But plenty of kids know where the gun cabinet keys are too, if they want in they'll probably find a way.

But, you have your opinion, I have mine.
 
We had ad campaigns from MADD to tell people to stop drinking and driving.

I think America needs a similar approach to reach the public at large and say "Teach your children about gun safety, what to do if they find one, what to do if their friend has one. And keep them safely locked away from curious hands."

The question is - what organization or group or individual is going to fund those ads.

Remember, this isn't about the most mature and well taught among us. This is about John Q. Public and little Billy...and it never occurs to them to bother doing something about their loaded revolver, whether it's talking to Billy or locking it up, until Billy decides to show off the revolver to his friend and bad things happen.

An effort like this isn't for the responsible. It's to make the irresponsible more responsible.

And I agree with all who have said - this is personal responsibility, not something that should be mandated by law.

My local police department hands out free gun locks on request. So...why not use them for whatever is not readied for carry or self defense?
 
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