7mm-08

The local Cabela's has a couple of Ruger No.1 rifles in 7mm-08. How does the cartridge do in that rifle?

Just think of it this way anything the .308 can do the 7mm-08 can do it better.

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Does that include 250-grain bullets? Such bullets have done very well in long range matches shot from a .308 Win. case.

When the 7-08 was first used in high power match rifle competitions, users quickly noticed barrel life was less than that of the .308. Therefore, the 7-08 looses in the barrel life events.

The local Cabela's has a couple of Ruger No.1 rifles in 7mm-08. How does the cartridge do in that rifle?

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It'll be identical in any rifle with the same barrel dimensions as far as muzzle velocity is concerned for a given load. But the Ruger No. 1's have never been all that great in the accuracy department compared to good bolt action rifles.

Bart B. said:

Does that include 250-grain bullets? Such bullets have done very well in long range matches shot from a .308 Win. case.

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If you're talking about the 250gr. SMK, it's no longer in production so .308 won't be doing that either. The 240gr .308 SMK has a lower BC than the 183gr .284 SMK, and of course is 57 grains heavier so it can't be driven nearly as fast.

So yes, 7mm does it better.

The 7mm-08 has slightly slimmer bullets with better BC per weight.

The .308 pushes bullets of similar weight slightly faster than the 7 mm.

The .308 also does not have a stupid name. I shoot .308 and I'm happy with it. They are for all intents and purposes very, very similar.

Llama Bob,

None of the 28 caliber bullets weigh 240 or 250 grains like some of the 30 caliber ones do. I mentioned bullet weight only for comparison, not lighter ones BC's. Woodleigh makes a 240-gr. Power Point 30 caliber bullet (http://www.custombrassandbullets.com/wb65g.html) that'll do well in a 1:8 twist barrel. They can be shot out at 2100 fps from a .308 Win case.

For most people 7-08 and 308 are ballistic twins. Take your pick. On paper the 7-08 with "Normal" hunting weight bullets shows a slight edge in trajectory and energy. But we're talking about 2" less drop at 500 yards and less than 100 ft lbs energy. You're talking about 1 ft lb less recoil. No one will ever notice the difference.

I can't say how the 308 does with 250 gr bullets. But I've seen the results of some 215 gr bullets with BC's right at .7 that were impressive. The load I saw a guy using was being shot at 1800 yards and held 1500 ft lbs of energy to 800 yards. The better TARGET bullets in 7mm might match that.

There are some 200-215 gr 30 caliber HUNTING bullet options with BC's hovering around .7 that will turn the 308 into a legit elk load out past 500 yards. Not sure if there are any 7-08 loads that will do that.

I still say that for most people it is a tie. But I already own other 30 caliber rifles and choosing 308 over 7-08 just keeps things simpler for me from a loading perspective.

Bart B. said:

Llama Bob,

None of the 28 caliber bullets weigh 240 or 250 grains like some of the 30 caliber ones do.

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That's all well and good. It just doesn't equate to superior long range performance. In fact the situation is the opposite.

If your sole goal is to use a heavier bullet, then yes, larger diameter calibers facilitate that.

just for reference....

The Hornady .284 dia. 165 gr. A-max has a BC of 0.63

I am an avid fan of the 7-08. I choose it over the .308 for less recoil and I like 7 MM's. But I would not say it is better than the .308. The .308 has more velocity and energy and a proven record as a 1000 yard competition round and big game round.
The 7-08 is near ideal as a deer round and I like it. A .308 is just a little more of the same. If you like one you will like the other.

I agree it's unfortunate that the 7mm-08 was named the way it was. I have been of the opinion for over 20 years now that it's about as ideal a deer round as could ever be invented. I own a 7x57 because it is basically a 7mm-08 with a cooler name and history, and I like historically significant calibers. Otherwise, I'd own a 7mm-08 for a lot of reasons.

I have a .308 for sale at the moment, mostly because I find it very boring.

What velocity would a 308 get, shooting a 240 grain bullet? Just curious

I know a family that standardized 7-08 as their deer hunting round. Locally ammo can be hard to find at times so one either reloads or stocks up. It does have a steady following so it should be around for a long time.

According to 7-08 fans one advantage it has over the Mauser round is a standard chamber throat dimension whereas the later varies from maker to maker.

I've become comfy with my hunting rifles but a Rem. M7 in 7-08 might be the near perfect whitetail piece. I wouldn't feel under gunned.

What velocity would a 308 get, shooting a 240 grain bullet? Just curious

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According to Bart in post 30 about 2100 fps. Bart knows his stuff and I've never found him to be wrong. I've never seen the results of shooting bullets that heavy. I've read results from some long distance shooters using bullets up to 215 gr loaded a lot faster than book loads (2600 fps) that did some incredible things at extreme distance.

I stated earlier in the thread that for the majority of shooters and hunters they are identical. But for the hand loader willing to push the envelope there are more options for extreme use with a 308. But very few people do that.

As a hunter I'd hunt anything in North America with either. I'd feel better with a bigger gun if hunting the larger coastal brown bear in Alaska, but 30-06 and 7 mag have killed them. The same bullets in a 308 or 7-08 running 150 fps slower should still do the job.

scottbird said:

I am going to be shooting at the 500 yard mark over the summer, at the range. is there any good info you can offer. I have a bdc scope for the 7mm-08, but for the 140 grain, I am shooting the 120's. have any idea how that will affect me?

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You should be able to get the scope maker to tell you what the subtensions of the scope are in MOA or mills (hopefully it's on the website), and then compare that to a ballistic solution computed for your rifle using JBM ballistic or similar and determine what ranges your BDC hashes will work at. They won't be the same ranges they were originally intended for with the 140gr.

scottbird said:

Llama Bob

I am so glad to have guys like you to lean on when I need information, that beeing said, I really have no Idea what you said. I am sorry if I sound ignorant, but this is the first bdc scope I have ever owned. it is a BSA.

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That's OK, there is a learning curve. This is what Llama Bob is getting at in part. Most scopes are measured in MOA (Minute Of Angle) and 1 MOA is about 1" at 100 yards so if a scope has 1/4 MOA clicks each click will move the strike of the bullet about 1/4" at 100 yards or 1/2" at 200 yards. There are also Milliradian-Adjustable Scopes which rather than MOA are calibrated in Milliradians. While gaining in popularity I doubt that is what you have.

This all comes down to you becoming familiar with your scope and how to setup and use the scope. Like anything else there is a learning curve.

Ron

scottbird said:

Llama Bob

I am so glad to have guys like you to lean on when I need information, that beeing said, I really have no Idea what you said. I am sorry if I sound ignorant, but this is the first bdc scope I have ever owned. it is a BSA.

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No problem

I'm not at all familiar with BSA scopes, but here's the basic process. First you mount the scope. Then you zero the rifle at whatever distance the scope manual tells you to to make the BDC work. Usually that's 100y. Then per the manual, each line down on the BDC will be the drop for some farther distance - 200y, 300y, etc. So if you want to shoot at 300y you just hold at the intersection of the 300y line and the vertical line, and you'll be on.

Now, that works perfectly if the load you're using is exactly the load they made the BDC for at exactly the right altitude, temperature, etc. But of course it never is. Your 120gr load probably shoots flatter than the 140gr load it's made for. So the line the manual says will work for 200y will still work, but it'll be right for say 237y. Of course the question is how you find out what that distance is.

The way you do it is with a ballistic calculator. You chrono your load (if possible, or use what's on the box if not) and plug that plus what the bullet type, the altitude, temperature, scope height above bore, zero distance etc. into this website:

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi

And that will tell you what your trajectory is, at least plenty good for 500y. One of the things it will tell you is the drop at each distance measured in MOA or mills (both units of angle) rather than inches. Now you need to know how much angle there is between the center point of your scope and each BDC line. This is what you need to get from the scope maker. The technical term for those angles is "subtentions". Then you compare those to the angles given by the ballistic calculator, and that tells you what distances the drop lines will work with for your load.

Then you go shoot

jimro says on 240's shot from 308's:

According to Bart in post 30 about 2100 fps.

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David Tubb shot Sierra 250's out of his Palma rifle to shoot the high qualifying score on the 1988 US Palma Team. He told me his 28" barrel had a 1:8 twist and a longer leade so those bullets would make room for enough powder to shoot 'em out at 2150 fps as measured on his chronograph. So, I figured more normal length and chambered barrels would shoot Sierra 240's out a bit slower

Regarding scottbird's comment

I have a bdc scope for the 7mm-08, but for the 140 grain, I am shooting the 120's. have any idea how that will affect me?

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A given load for the 7-08 can have almost a 2 foot drop difference at 600 yards going from sea level to 6000 feet above it. As much as 6 feet difference at 1000 yards over the same change in altitude. Bullet drop compensators are set for one altitude and atmospheric conditions, so to see what your scope really needs with your ammo to make a good first shot placement on game, I think you should get zeros for altitudes you'll shoot at.

scottbird said:

bsa emaild me a chart for the mildot scope.

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I'm confused. Generally bullet drop compensation (BDC) reticles and mildot reticles are mutually exclusive - you'll have one or the other but not both.

This image illustrates the difference:
http://precisionrifleblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/scope-reticle1.png?w=645

Now I'm not sure which we're talking about...