Hornady OAL gauges?

Status
Not open for further replies.
No. No. A thousand times no.

Measure fired case headspace then bump its shoulder back .002" or so from that number.

All chambers are not what a GO headspace gauge is. Some are a couple to several thousandths longer. Fired cases are typically .001" or so less than chamber headspace.

A headspace gauge is not required to ensure case shoulders are pushed back any amount. Just a comparator. Use a nylon bushing and calipers which is good enough. See post 9 in:

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/headspace.815278/#post-10440532

Comparators are exact difference measuring tools.
 
Last edited:
Bart B., you misunderstood what I meant. What I meant was that you use the Go-gauge only to set your calipers to an absolute known length. The length of the gauge has nothing to do with how much the shoulder is set back. If the caliper is zeroed with the gauge then you know for sure that the zero reading is exactly 1.630" (for .308). If I know that my chamber headspace is 1.632 and I want my cartridge headspace to be 1.627 (for example) then I set my die to give a sized case a reading of -.003 knowing that a reading of 0.00" would actually be 1.630". Then I know without a doubt that I have a setback of .005" from the chamber headspace. I'm very aware that the go-gauge isn't meant for this purpose but it's the one thing that I know the exact length of (datum to base).

The reason I used this example is because it's how the sizing die has to be set for the M14/M1A. You cannot use a fired case because in this rifle unlike others, the fired case doesn't give you an accurate reading of chamber headspace. The case continues to expand after ejection so you have to otherwise find out what the exact headspace of the rifle is and set the die accordingly. With the M1A, Springfield encloses a headspace tag.

Sorry, I may not have explained it well in my first post. My whole point was to say that the Hornady bullet and headspace comparators don't give a dead nuts on value because of wear, bevel, datum, ogive etc. They're used to measure more than one case, bullet, loaded round etc and COMPARE the values to find out the difference. I hope this made more sense.
 
so I just measure 55hp nosler varmageddon with the OAL tool and threaded the case on tight and inserted the bullet into the modified case and entered the case into the chamber and lightly pushed the rod forward until it stopped. I don't yet have a bullet comparator as they are backordered so I measured to the tip instead of OGIVE. I came up with the following below. this was 4 separate bullets measure several times. I'm taking it that I will need a bullet comparator for a better measurement but to me some of those are extreme spreads.

Another issue I noticed was Nosler calls for 2.260 for an OAL. all of these are very far from the recommended OAL.

whats your thoughts?

1)2.180
2)2.175
3)2.195
4)2.190
5)2.140
6)2.170
7)2.165
8)2.160
9)2.160
10)2.175
 
You need to improve your procedure from those numbers. They are all over the place. Either your not getting it chamber all the way or something is hanging up. Make sure your chamber is clean of all powder residue.

I assume your are measuring a 223R. Do you know what chamber you have in your gun? 556, Wylde, 223R Min Match chamber .... All are different. It does make a difference on where you bullet will contact. The 223R Min Spec Match chamber will have the shortest in my experience. If you do a search on 223 reamers you will find a pdf showing the differences in the reamers listed (6).
 
Blue68f100 said:
You need to improve your procedure from those numbers. They are all over the place. Either your not getting it chamber all the way or something is hanging up. Make sure your chamber is clean of all powder residue.

I assume your are measuring a 223R. Do you know what chamber you have in your gun? 556, Wylde, 223R Min Match chamber .... All are different. It does make a difference on where you bullet will contact. The 223R Min Spec Match chamber will have the shortest in my experience. If you do a search on 223 reamers you will find a pdf showing the differences in the reamers listed (6).
Click to expand...
its a savage axis heavy barrel 223rem. if I load v max it must be at 2.230 and book is 2.250 so I'm thinking its a short chamber. I bore mopped the chamber but will do it again and try it again. I guess the spread is because I used several different bullets from the box but it still doesn't explain the 65k spread from book OAL.
 
ohihunter2014 said:
so I just measure 55hp nosler varmageddon with the OAL tool and threaded the case on tight and inserted the bullet into the modified case and entered the case into the chamber and lightly pushed the rod forward until it stopped. I don't yet have a bullet comparator as they are backordered so I measured to the tip instead of OGIVE. I came up with the following below. this was 4 separate bullets measure several times. I'm taking it that I will need a bullet comparator for a better measurement but to me some of those are extreme spreads.

Another issue I noticed was Nosler calls for 2.260 for an OAL. all of these are very far from the recommended OAL.

whats your thoughts?

1)2.180
2)2.175
3)2.195
4)2.190
5)2.140
6)2.170
7)2.165
8)2.160
9)2.160
10)2.175
Click to expand...
That much of a spread among your bullets is believable if you're measuring base to tip but what isn't right is Nosler's OAL compared to the OAL you arrived at. Using the OAL gauge gave you the length with your bullet seated to the lands so you can't really seat your bullet any longer much less as long as Nosler recommends.
Are you sure that the Nosler OAL is with the exact same bullet that you were using? If so, I would think there's an error somewhere in your procedure.
 
I have a match chamber barrel in one of my AR's. Like you I find bullets that will not chamber at book OAL. I have the Nosler 55gr FBHP and have a note 2.202" Max OAL for mine. If you don't have the bullet comparator you can use a 22LR cartridge to contact the bullet near the rifling. This is old school but it will give you a more consistent reading.
 
Blue68f100 said:
I have a match chamber barrel in one of my AR's. Like you I find bullets that will not chamber at book OAL. I have the Nosler 55gr FBHP and have a note 2.202" Max OAL for mine. If you don't have the bullet comparator you can use a 22LR cartridge to contact the bullet near the rifling. This is old school but it will give you a more consistent reading.
Click to expand...
 
Blue68f100 said:
I have a match chamber barrel in one of my AR's. Like you I find bullets that will not chamber at book OAL. I have the Nosler 55gr FBHP and have a note 2.202" Max OAL for mine. If you don't have the bullet comparator you can use a 22LR cartridge to contact the bullet near the rifling. This is old school but it will give you a more consistent reading.
Click to expand...
could you elaborate on the 22lr? I'm a little worried now because the black marker test for 55gr v max said 2.230 but using the gauge its showing that's too long but ive never had an issue seating to 2.230.
 
Measuring point on bullets is on their ogive about .002" smaller than their diameter. That's the part that touches the rifling when fired.

Bullet tips touch nothing except magazine front walls from the rounds in the chamber causing recoil.
 
Bart B. said:
Measuring point on bullets is on their ogive about .002" smaller than their diameter. That's the part that touches the rifling when fired.

Bullet tips touch nothing except magazine front walls from the rounds in the chamber causing recoil.
Click to expand...
i get that part but with an OAL of 2.230 with coloring the bullet and being able to close the chamber without marks on the bullet or resistance how could the OAL gauge show me that OAL from base of case to tip of bullet being into rifling. I'm ordering a bullet comparator from another site tomorrow morning. my main concern with or without the comprator is why the OAL is 65k smaller than book spec.
 
As someone pretty new to reloading and very new to the use of the Hornady OAL gauge, I really want to understand what is going on with the data ohihunter posted in post #28. The thread has ventured off into various intricacies of ogive and when it hits the lands, but the big question on my mind is, even with bullet tip not being a very precise and consistent measurement, I'm stunned to see such variances in the data in post #28, AS WELL AS the fact it is so much shorter than the Nosler load data for COAL.

To me those are the real puzzlers. I'd like to understand what is happening, in case I'm not using the tool correctly.

Thx.

OR
 
What is the headspace length of your modified case compared to your fired cases? That'd be my first expectation troubleshooting your situation - meaning a smoked bullet and a comparator set bullet not giving the same result.
 
Varminterror said:
What is the headspace length of your modified case compared to your fired cases? That'd be my first expectation troubleshooting your situation - meaning a smoked bullet and a comparator set bullet not giving the same result.
Click to expand...
fireformed case measured 1.141-1.142. the modified case was 1.140. according to the hornady headspace comparator.
 
Bart B. said:
Why don't you seat bullets at an OAL that functions well?
Click to expand...
I would but imo that's a large difference of seating depth and finding out the 2.230 for the v max is over according to this tool I have to take a step back.
 
ohihunter2014 said:
fireformed case measured 1.141-1.142. the modified case was 1.140. according to the hornady headspace comparator.
Click to expand...
Those measurements can’t possibly be correct for .223 Rem if your calipers were properly zeroed to the comparator insert. You should be measuring in the neighborhood of 1.4xx”.
 
higgite said:
Those measurements can’t possibly be correct for .223 Rem if your calipers were properly zeroed to the comparator insert. You should be measuring in the neighborhood of 1.4xx”.
Click to expand...
I don't yet have a comparator. I am waiting on the single bushings to become in stock so I don't have to buy the whole kit as I only have one bottleneck rifle but I'm going to buy the whole kit now and be done with it. I was measuring off the tip not the ogive.
 
I have the Hornady .223 Rem modified case and using my (Hornady) headspace comparator I'm measuring 1.457".

FWIW - case length (just the case, no bullet) measures 1.751".

OR
 
ohihunter2014 said:
fireformed case measured 1.141-1.142. the modified case was 1.140. according to the hornady headspace comparator.
Click to expand...
higgite said:
Those measurements can’t possibly be correct for .223 Rem if your calipers were properly zeroed to the comparator insert. You should be measuring in the neighborhood of 1.4xx”.
Click to expand...
ohihunter2014 said:
I don't yet have a comparator. I am waiting on the single bushings to become in stock so I don't have to buy the whole kit as I only have one bottleneck rifle but I'm going to buy the whole kit now and be done with it. I was measuring off the tip not the ogive.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but I'm totally confused. How did you come to the conclusion that "the modified case was 1.140. according to the hornady headspace comparator" if you don't have a comparator? How did "measuring off the tip not the ogive" enter into a headspace comparator discussion?
 
higgite said:
I'm sorry, but I'm totally confused. How did you come to the conclusion that "the modified case was 1.140. according to the hornady headspace comparator" if you don't have a comparator? How did "measuring off the tip not the ogive" enter into a headspace comparator discussion?
Click to expand...
I have a headspace comparator but not a bullet comparator. someone asked me to make sure the modified case was within spec is where headspace came into play. I have a bullet comparator now and will take a few measurements but its still going to show me the bullet is super short.
 
higgite said:
Those measurements can’t possibly be correct for .223 Rem if your calipers were properly zeroed to the comparator insert. You should be measuring in the neighborhood of 1.4xx”.
Click to expand...
I zeroed the tool on the headspace comparator and bushing and then measured and got that number. ill check it again and make sure what I said above is right. :)
 
Well as one member a few weeks ago told me I needed to figured things out for myself and stop asking on here I took his advice and did just that and came to the determination that Nosler hasn't a clue what they are doing. Lol. I found several factory HP rounds I had stashed away in ammo cans that I haven't fired due to reloading so I measured both brands and hot dang I got what my barrel tells me is the OAL for the 55gr hp, it was way lower than Nosler suggested OAL. I also found a box of factory v max and oal is 2.230 what my barrel tells me I need. I used the hornady tool and bullet comparator and measured the same bullet 5 times and got within 1-2tho of the 5 readings with both v max and HP. I also crimped a fire formed case mouth just enough to hold the bullet and chambered it and entered it by hand and got the same readings at the OAL gauge. Reloadron suggested using a sized case with the bullet seated long so I'm trying that after dinner. Its good to have several tricks IMO.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

A
  • Locked
OAL Gauges-bullet comparators?
2
Replies
30
Views
1K
fguffey
F
S
  • Locked
Can you live without it?
Replies
10
Views
491
Afy
A
Point_Taken
  • Locked
Is there any point of adjusting seating depth if I use a Hornady OAL gauge?
Replies
16
Views
729
rkittine
rkittine
hoardingthemanual
  • Locked
Question about the Hornady Overall (OAL) Gauge
Replies
6
Views
217
txtaxman
T
Z
  • Locked
Hornady OAL Gauge, What am I measuring
Replies
16
Views
2K
Bart B.
B
Back
Top