Recommend a 9mm load for Steel Challenge

FN in MT said:

NOT when You are accustomed to mouse fart loads....hence my "Gamer" comment. You will surely gain experience in gun handling, but REAL ammo will be a surprise.

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They are not *THAT* light! They still go bang like a "real" gun, have recoil, and actually propel a bullet out the front of the barrel at 1,000 fps. Almost like "REAL" ammo!

Hehe... I get what you are saying, but I have zero issues transitioning between my "mouse farts" and my "REAL ammo". Is there a difference? Yes. Is it THAT drastic that you are surprised by the recoil from REAL ammo? No. Sorry, not that much difference.

I thought there was a minimum power factor that was quite a bit over "mouse fart" loads. I would love to hear form the folks participating in it. When I hear them at the range I don't hear any poot, poot, poot going on.

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Yup. It all depends on exactly what kind of gun (or division) you're shooting, but a 9mm, for example has to be equivalent to 125 gr. bullet at 1,000 fps. (Or a 147 at 850 fps., and so forth. Bullet weight times velocity has to equal at least 125,000.)

For a .45 ACP the total is 165,000, (230 gr. x 717 fps. or 200 gr. at 825 fps, etc.)

Not +P+ loadings, certainly, but I've never heard a mouse fart quite that loud.

FN in MT said:

Gamers.

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Here's another couple of gamers:



I'm not eager to get in a real street fight with either of them.

Would WST be a suitable powder in place of 231 for this load? I would think so, but I haven’t found any data for 9mm WST. I think older Winchester manuals had it, but nothing in today’s website.

No.

Even 1999 Winchester load data does not have 9mm loads for WST - http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=159609&stc=1&d=1329800605

WST was/is popular with match shooters and many use it but there is no published load data for 9mm and WST.

Here's my 9mm testing with WST but note longer OAL to prevent powder compression and use my data at your own risk - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ick-plated-bullets.761471/page-5#post-9655361

Thank you BDS.

I had read that WST was a higher volume powder and cleaner burning than 231 AND I have plenty on hand for 40.

I only have a little bit of 231 but it is not hard to find right now. I will get some more. Besides, a pound will do over 1600 rounds at these weights.

Is there a discount code for THR at xtreme?

No.

The mouse fart 9mm loads won't make 125 PF for IDPA or USPSA.
Yes they are light for 9mm, really just a full power .380 load in a 9mm case.
Would I choose them for an SD round in 9mm, no, would I want to be shot by one no.
I can tell you from experience working at a gas station and being robbed and shot being shot with a .380 is not like stubbing you toe and will ruin your weekend.

Dudedog said:

Would I choose them for an SD round in 9mm, no, would I want to be shot by one no.
I can tell you from experience working at a gas station and being robbed and shot being shot with a .380 is not like stubbing you toe and will ruin your weekend.

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What??? You were shot during a robbery? Dang... So glad you survived.

If you are going to focus on Steel, light loads help.
Me? I shoot local Speed Steel with a .22 most of the time. When I shoot with centerfire, it is my regular IDPA ESP (Minor) ammo.

I'm shooting steel in competition a couple of times a month...everything from 6" steel to large poppers.
Distance tends to be about 30'...sometimes a bit farther.
In two 9 mm M&P Pro's (one being a CORE non-Ported) with 5" barrels, factory springs, I use the following:

RMR 124 grain RN plated and jacketed. (Whichever RMR has best pricing on.)
4.0 grains Titegroup.
1.145 (more or less a tad) OAL.

In the past I have used 4.3 grains HP38/231 with same specs as above.

I too avoid the lighter spring route as I have several M&P's and don't wish to have to keep track of all the springs.

These are also quite accurate.

These will not reliably function the slide on my wife's CORE Ported, FYI.

santacruzdave said:

Just got back from testing my 100gr Xtreem RNFP W231 loads. 4.2 gr. first round stovepiped, second round stovepiped. 4.4 gr. first round stovepiped, second round stovepiped. 4.6 gr. first round stovepiped, second round stovepiped. XD9 Tactical 5" barrel. So, I guess the choice is more powder or a lighter spring.

It appears that the stock spring is 17lb. Any XD9 Tactical 5" 9mm owners out there, who can recommend a lighter spring to use with the above load?

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Dang, that really sucks. My SIG P226 (4.4" barrel) ate them up just fine at 4.2 and 4.3 gr. of W231. A lighter spring might be in order...

santacruzdave said:

9mm load for Steel Challenge ... 100gr Xtreem RNFP W231 ...4.2 gr ... 4.4 gr ... 4.6 gr ... stovepiped

So, I guess ... more powder

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Yes, your powder charges are too low.

Hodgdon lists 5.1-5.5 gr as start/max charges for 100 gr Speer FMJ loaded to 1.050" - http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

100 gr Speer FMJ W231/HP-38 COL 1.050" Start 5.1 gr (1,218 fps) 25,200 CUP - Max 5.5 gr (1,282 fps) 28,400 CUP

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I tested 5.2 gr and 5.5 gr W231/HP-38 loads for my 9mm carbine with RMR thick plated 100 gr HM RN (only 100 gr plated bullet rated to 1500 fps I know) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...n-9mm-40s-w-45acp.799231/page-3#post-10245856

For your lighter steel challenge loads, I would suggest testing 4.8, 5.0 and 5.2 gr for X-Treme 100 gr RNFP bullets. BTW, X-Treme regular plated bullets are rated to 1200 fps so you may start to lose accuracy above 1200 fps - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ng-at-25-50-yards.808446/page-3#post-10470195

4.0 BE under a 95 grain RNFP coated lead Boolit is a very accurate and soft load. 3.6 of Clays or 3.8 TG all work as well for SC games.

Bummer, 4.0gr would function in my 1911, took 4.2gr HP38 for my P226 and XD Compact+Subcompact. to get 100% function.
I would have thought 4.6 would have been more than enough.
4.2/4.3 worked for me/Doublehelix and vaalpens in different guns, but of course all guns behave different.

Is the gun new/low round count? (spring that's in it still stiff)

Yes, Hodgdon's start charges are quite a bit higher, but it sort of defeats the purpose of using the 100s if you need to push them to 1200 to get function. (120PF)

Hard to say when they wouldn't function but if you liked the feel (lack of muzzle flip) it might be worth getting a lighter spring for SC.

Wolff has lighter springs
https://www.gunsprings.com/SPRINGFIELD/XD 5 INCH/cID1/mID60/dID271
Lighter springs from 9lb to 16lb in 1lb inc.
Might give them a call and see if they had a suggestion on how light you need to go.
I don't own a XD 5" but guessing (just a guess) you might try backing off a couple lbs to 15.
Springs look like they at $7.95 from Wolff but by the time you pay shipping it might be worth your trouble to order 2 different ones, say maybe 15 and 13.

Is the gun new/low round count? (spring that's in it still stiff)

Dudedog said:

Bummer, 4.0gr would function in my 1911, took 4.2gr HP38 for my P226 and XD Compact+Subcompact. to get 100% function.
I would have thought 4.6 would have been more than enough.
4.2/4.3 worked for me/Doublehelix and vaalpens in different guns, but of course all guns behave different.

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Also note, I am loading to 1.03"-ish rather than 1.05", not sure how much pressure increase that would cause.

It's very common for people to play with spring weights in games like steel challenge.... even without reliability issues forcing it. It's worth experimenting with for all kinds of reasons.

Just as an FYI, I find these loads to be very accurate in my gun. That was a *BIG* worry for me, you need accuracy with Steel Challenge matches, some of those 35 yd plates require a very accurate shot, and I found the 4.3 gr, W231 to be really nice, surprisingly so actually.

I will try to retest some when I have a chance in my 4" XD, not that it makes a difference for your gun.
It has a factory spring which should be 17lbs as well. Spring in it has a couple 1000s rounds on it but not lots.
Again I have no idea on what weight you might need, a couple lbs lighter was a pure guess.
Does your 5" tactical have a ported barrel? Didn't think about that to begin with, if it does that probably has an effect on how much is necessary for function.

So 4.6 was a no and 4.8 is ok, still .5gr higher than want DoubleHelix and I needed.
If you liked the way 4.8 felt you will love 4.3 if you can get the right spring. 4.3 was about 100PF in my gun so I don't know if that would help Wolff assist you in picking a spring.
The calibration pack they have has lighter springs than factory but not that much lighter, big range of spring rates from them.

Hope you get it worked out, sorry if I steered you wrong with the 4.3 load. (it did function in a couple other models of pistol however)(not saying there is anything wrong with yours just different)
Lyman does list a starting load of 3.7gr of W231 with a 95 which is less than Hodgdon so there are some listed starting loads that are lower. (this of course doesn't really make a difference to you just included it as a matter of reference)
Lyman 95gr FMJ W231 Start 3.7 1068fps MAX 5.1 1374 FPS


Messing with springs is sort of a pain, but might be worthwhile.


Edit:
Thought about it a bit. "Normal" 9mm load is about 330 ft lbs.
Light "mouse fart" with 100 gr is about 220 or 70%.
Don't know if it would be would be valid at all for a spring but 70% of 17lbs (normal spring) would be about 12 lbs.

Quite possibly a completely invalid line of reasoning but a thought.