What Happened?

Just guesses..

Do you lube your cases just before loading?
Do you liquid wash your cases?
Do you tumble just before load with course walnut media?
Have you recently serviced/lubed your dies?

To me this would be a powder contamination problem from the start..Bill.

is that a stock 686, or does it have a "trigger job"? a light mainspring can give light strikes to thick cupped primers like cci.

murf

8th said "poof" and locked the cylinder up.
^^^With this, to me the primer did ignite, the powder did not??

On ""Light Strikes" on my S&W's I just get a "Click" on the first attempt..

Could the bullet have jumped crimp from firing previous rounds. If the bullet moved forward, the powder may not burn correctly.

12 grs 2400 is a lot of powder for a 158 gr lswc in 38 special.

That is a hot load. Way past max for 38 special 146 gr bullet load. No data for 2400 powder in 158 gr on hogdon site. I would like to see some chronograph data. Must have been a bad primer.

I had a .38 round fail to fire, twice, the other day. I have misplaced the round but am betting on a bad cci primer

Magnums level loads in 38 special cases is a bad idea. Eventually one will end up in a 38 special with potentially dangerous results.
Sounds like the primer went off which forced it to back out which locked up the gun. I would suspect a clogged flash hole since the older didn't ignite
I don't understand how it could stick a bullet in the barrel and have to tap it back in. Then pull the bullet and you still had the propper powder charge? Bullet blew out but powder didn't? Pounding and pulling but didn't spill any? Did bullet lodge in barrel or just come part way out of the case and extend into the forcing cone?

e rex said:

"poof" and locked the cylinder up ... dropped a wood dowel down the barrel and tapped the bullet back ... proper powder charge was in the case. The primer had a small dimple but it had to have gone off, just didn't light the powder ... powder ... burned just fine.

Click to expand...

Since there was powder charge inside the case that burned just fine and bullet was pushed into the barrel, I would suspect primer contamination or failure to flash hot enough to ignite the powder. Apparently, enough gas expansion pushed the bullet out of case and into the barrel.

My latest-edition Lyman Pistol and Revolver Handbook lists the max for a 158 gr cast bullet as 8.8 grains 2400, giving 953 fps and 17,300 chamber pressure, for .38 Special. You are loading WAY beyond the max. I doubt that is "very close to factory high-speed loads (what you are doing)", and if your cylinder blows up then Elmer Keith is not around to apologize. I really don't think it's a "good bit lighter than Skelton or Keith". Wherever did you get your load data? If it is shot in a .357, then the results would be much less catastrophic than in a .38 Special-only revolver.

Disregarding the hot load, I always use magnum primers with 2400. Spherical powders can be difficult to ignite fully.

make sure the mainspring screw is tight. other than that, i'd suggest switching to winchester primers.

luck,

murf

Stop squealing at him guys. It is a well established 38-44 load that he is using in a .357 magnum. While I do not choose to load such loads in 38 spl cases it is not dangerous or insane so long as he keeps up with them and they stay out of the wrong firearms.....and that load won't blow up a sound 38 spl...(it is well under proof levels).
As to what happened.....that is unusua.l Obviously there is flash hole in the case since the primer pushed the bullet out.....I wonder if there was a bit of something that clogged things enough to shield the powder from the flash? Weak primer? Weak crimp that let the round depressurize before ignition? Weird. I recently had a factory 7mm-08 round fail to fire. Pulled it down. The primer had priming compound and an anvil but it failed to ignite despite numerous strikes. In thousands of rounds I don't recall any centerfire primer failing when well struck....until that one.

FYI, from a 1933 Remington ammo catalog: (All velocities from a 6" barrel.)

#1. 38 special, 158 grain @ 860 fps

#2. 38 special, 158 grain @ 960 fps

Some of their ammo is listed as 38 Colt Special and some as 38 Smith and Wesson Special, showing the same bullet weight at the same velocity.

#3. 38 Colt Special Hi-Speed, 158 grain @ 1125 fps
Note in description of the 38 Colt Special Hi-Speed: Adapted to Colt's Shooting Master Revolver and other Colt's and Smith and Wesson revolvers chambered for 38 Special cartridges, if in good condition. Recoil will be heavier, however, in lighter arms.

#4. 38/44 Smith and Wesson Special, 158 grain @ 1125 fps
Note in description of the 38/44 Smith and Wesson: Adapted to new 38/44 Smith and Wesson Special revolvers: also safe to use in Smith and Wesson and Colt revolvers chambered for the 38 Special cartridge if they are in good condition. In these lighter models the recoil is noticeably heavier. May also be used in the Colt "Shooting Master".

It may have been a blessing mate?

Thewelshm

From your description (the relatively weak report and bullet stuck in bore) I would suggest a partially or fully blocked flash hole. Could a bit of tumbler media have snuggled up the flash hole? Is that flash hole smaller than others?

This sure is perplexing.

Primer cup had a small dimple yet bullet was pushed into the barrel so primer must have gone off.

Yet powder charge did not ignite ... when 7 other rounds fired, so can we reasonably rule out powder.

So I think we are back to primer and/or obstruction under the powder charge to prevent powder ignition.

Considering the bullet exited enough to tie up the cylinder, it sounds like the primer did ignite. Enough pressure was generated to move the bullet slightly forward but the powder didn't burn. I'm guessing the column of powder closest to the primer upon ignition was contaminated somehow. The other possibility is that something lodged over the primer hole inside the case after priming but before charging.

e rex said:

I loaded some .38 Special cases with 12 grains 2400 (for my S&W686 .357), CCI standard primers, 158 grain cast bullet. First 7 rounds shot fine, the 8th said "poof" and locked the cylinder up. I thought I had left the powder out of that one. Came home, dropped a wood dowel down the barrel and tapped the bullet back, opened the cylinder, pulled the bullet and the proper powder charge was in the case. The primer had a small dimple but it had to have gone off, just didn't light the powder.
Spread the powder on the bench and put the lighter to it and it burned just fine.
Never had this happen before, I'm a little goosey now.

Any Ideas???????????

Click to expand...

First of all, I'll tell you what didn't happen.

1. It has nothing to do with lubing your cases or how you cleaned your cases or dies.
2. It has nothing to do with a trigger job or light hammer strike.
3. You don't need any chronograph data.
4. It was not a bad primer.
5. It was not primer contamination.
6. Winchester primers will serve you no better and you don't have to check the mainspring screw.
7. The flash hole in the case was not clogged.
8. It's not "perplexing."
9. The powder was not contaminated.

Now what did happen. He who said too light a crimp may have been on to partial truth. One apparently read the first post and understood that though 38 Special cases were used, the cartridges were to be shot in a 357 Magnum. Depending on how deep the bullet was seated, 12 grains of 2400 wouldn't necessarily be an overload in a 38 Special case. Twelve grains is suitable for a 357 Magnum load with a JACKETED bullet and our man was loading CAST bullets. The signs of a locked up cylinder go along with an overload but that's not what this was. Overloads DON'T leave unburned powder in a case. Alliant 2400 is a slow pistol powder; faster than a slow rifle powder but slow nevertheless. The problem of "e rex" was not too high pressure but too low pressure to give a proper powder burn. A magnum primer may have helped but only because it would have raised the pressure a little. In general, you don't need a magnum primer with 2400.

I would recommend using 2400 with the bullets and cases it was intended for. I sometimes push the limits on loads and even work up loads with no published data but I have probably been reloading for longer than most of you and I would not push loads to the maximum in most revolvers.

But 7 rounds fired fine ... and 8th round went "poof".

So something was different with the 8th round.

That's what's perplexing me.