Looking for a 357 handload without stuck cases

Just an additional note: I loaded up some 158 gr coated SWC, 8.0 gr of BE-86 and S/A primers. They chronographed an average of 1306 fps out of my 6” GP-100 and the cases literally fell out of the cylinder when I opened the cylinder and tipped the barrel up. Might try that load, pretty good velocity, apparently decent pressure and half the powder of W-296/H-110…
 
2ndtimer said:
Just an additional note: I loaded up some 158 gr coated SWC, 8.0 gr of BE-86 and S/A primers. They chronographed an average of 1306 fps out of my 6” GP-100 and the cases literally fell out of the cylinder when I opened the cylinder and tipped the barrel up. Might try that load, pretty good velocity, apparently decent pressure and half the powder of W-296/H-110…
Click to expand...
Thanks for some real world experience. I don't have any BE-86 and I've never used it but it's a relatively fast burning powder. If you're using less of it and getting higher velocities, I think it's safe to say you've got higher pressures. All this tells me that I should be able to exceed 1200 feet per second without stuck cases.

I hope to have an update soon.
 
Palladan44 said:
At the end of each range session of shooting lead, I always fire at least a cylinder or 2 of Jacketed magnum rounds. lead-b-gone.
The carbon "38 ring" will be there if you shoot a lot of 38s in a 357 wheelgun, it can't be avoided.
Click to expand...
The only time I hear of 38 issues is with people who shoot a lot of 38s and don't clean like they should... it's a straight up maintenance issue...
 
Durango_Dave said:
Thanks for some real world experience. I don't have any BE-86 and I've never used it but it's a relatively fast burning powder. If you're using less of it and getting higher velocities, I think it's safe to say you've got higher pressures. All this tells me that I should be able to exceed 1200 feet per second without stuck cases.

I hope to have an update soon.
Click to expand...
Today is range day, results expected tonight 🤣
 
Soonerpesek said:
I can only speak for myself.
I fire both out of multiple firearms, never had the “crud ring” issue arise…
But, I also kinda enjoy cleaning my guns… :)
Click to expand...
The only time I had a problem with the crud ring was in the mid-70’s; my first gun, a 4-5/8” Blackhawk .357Mag. The load was 2.8gr Bullseye and the old 148gr Speer HBWC that’s been around since the wadcutter was invented (practically). Soft lead, hot nitro, back then I think Speer was using Alox or something like it on their bulk lead bullets, made for a stubborn carbon ring.

I used to scrub it clean with Hoppe’s and a bronze brush. The problem went away when I started cleaning and chamfering the case mouths inside and out when loading HBWC.

I don’t know why it was only that combination of components. I shot 158gr LRN .38’s all the time and didn’t get a crud ring.
 
I did a very thorough cleaning of the cylinder and now I can shoot the magnum loads without the brass sticking.

When I was cleaning it I really didn't think it was going to make much difference. The carbon fouling and crud ring didn't seem bad at all. I used flared brass like what eddiememphis and Rule3 were talking about. First I used Chameleon Gel and Eliminator. Both cleaners are made by Bore Tech. Chameleon Gel is made to remove extreme fouling. It's expensive but it's not meant to be used alone. After one pass with the Eliminator Bore Cleaner you apply the Chameleon Gel and let it sit.

I just happened to have my reloading die setup for 38 Special. I took a 357 Brass and ran it up the expanding die. I had to be careful to expand it just the right amount so it would scrape each chamber in the cylinder.

I then continued my cleaning with patches and a brush.

THAT DID IT! No more stuck brass.

Even though I proved to myself the issues that a crud ring can cause I'm still going to shoot both 38 and 357 in this gun. I shoot a lot more 38 special than 357 and I've got a bazillion 38 special brass cases. I don't have much 357 brass.

I have 4 guns that shoot 38 Special but this Blackhawk is the only one that can also shoot 357.

It's a different situation with my 44 Mag. I have never once bought any factory ammo for my S&W model 29. I only bought 44 Magnum Brass. I handload mild loads and powerful 44 Magnum, all using the same 44 Mag brass. I'll never have crud rings on that gun as long as I never shoot 44 Special.
 
Durango_Dave said:
I did a very thorough cleaning of the cylinder and now I can shoot the magnum loads without the brass sticking.

When I was cleaning it I really didn't think it was going to make much difference. The carbon fouling and crud ring didn't seem bad at all. I used flared brass like what eddiememphis and Rule3 were talking about. First I used Chameleon Gel and Eliminator. Both cleaners are made by Bore Tech. Chameleon Gel is made to remove extreme fouling. It's expensive but it's not meant to be used alone. After one pass with the Eliminator Bore Cleaner you apply the Chameleon Gel and let it sit.

I just happened to have my reloading die setup for 38 Special. I took a 357 Brass and ran it up the expanding die. I had to be careful to expand it just the right amount so it would scrape each chamber in the cylinder.

I then continued my cleaning with patches and a brush.

THAT DID IT! No more stuck brass.

Even though I proved to myself the issues that a crud ring can cause I'm still going to shoot both 38 and 357 in this gun. I shoot a lot more 38 special than 357 and I've got a bazillion 38 special brass cases. I don't have much 357 brass.

I have 4 guns that shoot 38 Special but this Blackhawk is the only one that can also shoot 357.

It's a different situation with my 44 Mag. I have never once bought any factory ammo for my S&W model 29. I only bought 44 Magnum Brass. I handload mild loads and powerful 44 Magnum, all using the same 44 Mag brass. I'll never have crud rings on that gun as long as I never shoot 44 Special.
Click to expand...
Thanks for reporting back!
 
Yes, thanks for reporting back. Glad things are in good working order now. Even more glad you didn't drive yourself crazy doubting your reloads..

I'll say it one more time. These brushes from Brownells do the job (all six chambers) in under 30 seconds. They don't show the 38/357 in stock now but I have bought them in the past.

www.brownells.com

BROWNELLS REVOLVER CHAMBER BRUSH | Brownells

Tough stainless steel to get heavy fouling/leading out of revolver cylinder chambers beautifully. Especially useful when going back to full power loads after firing wadcutters. SPECS: 8-32 thread. Recommended only for chambers.
www.brownells.com www.brownells.com
 
I've had good luck with lead removing cloth for cleaning stainless revolver cylinders. Just don't use it on a blued gun, it will remove the finish.
 
Durango_Dave said:
I did a very thorough cleaning of the cylinder and now I can shoot the magnum loads without the brass sticking.

When I was cleaning it I really didn't think it was going to make much difference. The carbon fouling and crud ring didn't seem bad at all. I used flared brass like what eddiememphis and Rule3 were talking about. First I used Chameleon Gel and Eliminator. Both cleaners are made by Bore Tech. Chameleon Gel is made to remove extreme fouling. It's expensive but it's not meant to be used alone. After one pass with the Eliminator Bore Cleaner you apply the Chameleon Gel and let it sit.

I just happened to have my reloading die setup for 38 Special. I took a 357 Brass and ran it up the expanding die. I had to be careful to expand it just the right amount so it would scrape each chamber in the cylinder.

I then continued my cleaning with patches and a brush.

THAT DID IT! No more stuck brass.

Even though I proved to myself the issues that a crud ring can cause I'm still going to shoot both 38 and 357 in this gun. I shoot a lot more 38 special than 357 and I've got a bazillion 38 special brass cases. I don't have much 357 brass.

I have 4 guns that shoot 38 Special but this Blackhawk is the only one that can also shoot 357.

It's a different situation with my 44 Mag. I have never once bought any factory ammo for my S&W model 29. I only bought 44 Magnum Brass. I handload mild loads and powerful 44 Magnum, all using the same 44 Mag brass. I'll never have crud rings on that gun as long as I never shoot 44 Special.
Click to expand...
A simple and cheap answer is always the best answer in my book. Now go get it dirty again 🤣
 
Russ57 said:
Yes, thanks for reporting back. Glad things are in good working order now. Even more glad you didn't drive yourself crazy doubting your reloads..

I'll say it one more time. These brushes from Brownells do the job (all six chambers) in under 30 seconds. They don't show the 38/357 in stock now but I have bought them in the past.

www.brownells.com

BROWNELLS REVOLVER CHAMBER BRUSH | Brownells

Tough stainless steel to get heavy fouling/leading out of revolver cylinder chambers beautifully. Especially useful when going back to full power loads after firing wadcutters. SPECS: 8-32 thread. Recommended only for chambers.
www.brownells.com www.brownells.com
Click to expand...
I gota get those Revolver Chamber Brushes. Bigger than the barrel. They'll help.
I think I'll wait till Brownells also has the Lewis Lead Remover.
 
Last edited:
Having bought both I wouldn't bother with the Lewis lead remover. YMMV.

The Lewis didn't do much more for me than chore boy wrapped on an old brush. Same thing didn't cut it for the chambers though.

Full disclosure. I was shooting .357 diameter 148 gr Remington HBWC, in a .38 special Colt OMM, that I should have been shooting a .359 bullet in. Also good chance a lot of the leading was from previous owner as the gun was old and bought used.

Hoping comparing notes will save other economic pain and time on the reloading bench and range.
 
I have a couple 357 mags ,what I have found to cause this is brass that is close to separating ( Incipient Case Head Separation) as several others have said old brass. I was having the same issue wW296 and Blue Dot my brass was sticking in the cylinder quite bad and I don’t shoot 38 special in my 357 mags. Then I had one separate on me scared the hell out of me I was not hurt just embarrassed. Check your brass just ahead of the rim if you see a circle on the brass forming you need to get rid of it eventually it will separate, plus it causes hard extraction.
 
If you are having case head separations in .357 mag you are likely running too hot, which can be exacerbated by rough chambers that hold onto cases.

Straight walled cases shouldn’t be doing that.
 
I use Sharpshooter products and they are very effective at copper removal, lead removal and carbon. I also use paracetic acid as a lead removal product. Slip 2000 is probably the very best removal product I have used for carbon removal. Soak and brush away. I was also wondering if you had a set of cylinder gauges to get a sense of what the actual dimensions are. I have great success with the 357 mag in my Uberti. I have many loads from light to hot. Never even once did I get a stuck cylinder even with primer flattening on hot loads. You may want to check cylinder pressures based on your loads and seek out a powder that generates less pressure and yet gives you the performance you want. I hope you can get out in front of this so shooting is more enjoyable to you.
 
BRatigan said:
I use Sharpshooter products and they are very effective at copper removal, lead removal and carbon. I also use paracetic acid as a lead removal product. Slip 2000 is probably the very best removal product I have used for carbon removal. Soak and brush away. I was also wondering if you had a set of cylinder gauges to get a sense of what the actual dimensions are. I have great success with the 357 mag in my Uberti. I have many loads from light to hot. Never even once did I get a stuck cylinder even with primer flattening on hot loads. You may want to check cylinder pressures based on your loads and seek out a powder that generates less pressure and yet gives you the performance you want. I hope you can get out in front of this so shooting is more enjoyable to you.
Click to expand...
No I don't have cylinder gauges for 357, only for 45 Colt.
My problem is now solved. I posted it in post #82. I know in a thread that spans 4 pages it's hard to read everything.

Durango_Dave said:
I did a very thorough cleaning of the cylinder and now I can shoot the magnum loads without the brass sticking.

When I was cleaning it I really didn't think it was going to make much difference. The carbon fouling and crud ring didn't seem bad at all. I used flared brass like what eddiememphis and Rule3 were talking about. First I used Chameleon Gel and Eliminator. Both cleaners are made by Bore Tech. Chameleon Gel is made to remove extreme fouling. It's expensive but it's not meant to be used alone. After one pass with the Eliminator Bore Cleaner you apply the Chameleon Gel and let it sit.

I just happened to have my reloading die setup for 38 Special. I took a 357 Brass and ran it up the expanding die. I had to be careful to expand it just the right amount so it would scrape each chamber in the cylinder.

I then continued my cleaning with patches and a brush.

THAT DID IT! No more stuck brass.

Even though I proved to myself the issues that a crud ring can cause I'm still going to shoot both 38 and 357 in this gun. I shoot a lot more 38 special than 357 and I've got a bazillion 38 special brass cases. I don't have much 357 brass.

I have 4 guns that shoot 38 Special but this Blackhawk is the only one that can also shoot 357.

It's a different situation with my 44 Mag. I have never once bought any factory ammo for my S&W model 29. I only bought 44 Magnum Brass. I handload mild loads and powerful 44 Magnum, all using the same 44 Mag brass. I'll never have crud rings on that gun as long as I never shoot 44 Special.
Click to expand...
 
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