Looking for a 357 handload without stuck cases

[Durango_Dave]

I have a Ruger Blackhawk with a 4 5/8 inch barrel.

When I handload for 357 Magnum my maximum velocity is 1200 feet per sec. Most of these are slow burning handgun powders. I am shooing 158 grain jacketed bullets (or sometimes plated but always 158 grain).

Some of these the cases are stuck so bad I cannot use the ejector. Instead I removed the cylinder from the gun and insert a dowel to tap each brass case out.



Who handloads for 357?
What powder and charge do you use?
What velocities do you get?
Does anyone else get cases stuck when following manufacturers load data?

I don't have the problem with 44 Mag. My 44 mag handloads have heavier bullets (240 grain) and higher speeds.

 

[.45Coltguy]

Hmm. I've used that same bullet with 2400 and Universal powders only. Your 2400 loads all look fine. Why the stuck cases, no answer. Perhaps the cylinder needs to be looked at to be sure those chambers are correct. Thats just my thought, hopefully others may chime in with a different/better answer. Dang.

 

[Shooterbob]

Does this happen with factory loads? Have you shot a lot of 38 special maybe a crud ring? I have never had problems shooting 38 special then shooting 357 but apparently some people have .is the pistol new?

 

[.45Coltguy]

Does this happen with factory loads? Have you shot a lot of 38 special maybe a crud ring? I have never had problems shooting 38 special then shooting 357 but apparently some people have .is the pistol new?

Good point.^^^

 

[Durango_Dave]

Have you shot a lot of 38 special maybe a crud ring?

I was thinking this might be a possibility. I shoot mainly 38 special. Before posting this I cleaned the cylinder and the rest of the gun thoroughly. It didn't help. Not that this possibility is ruled out.
I handload all my ammo. I haven't bought factory 357 for five years. I don't think I had the problem then.
This gun was made in 1983

 

[AJC1]

First step of every problem is always a deep clean. I shoot 14.1 with 2400 no problem. If it's not dirt then your cylinders need to be honed/polished.

 

[Durango_Dave]

I don't know if it's related but this Blackhawk shoots at lower velocity than my other guns.
I shot 38 Special cowboy loads in both of these guns:
Blackhawk with 4 5/8 inch barrel shot 646 feet per second
Service Six with a 4 inch barrel shot 743 feet per second with the same handloads.

Otherwise I love this Blackhawk. It's a tack driver.

 

[Kaldor]

I was thinking this might be a possibility. I shoot mainly 38 special. Before posting this I cleaned the cylinder and the rest of the gun thoroughly. It didn't help. Not that this possibility is ruled out.
I handload all my ammo. I haven't bought factory 357 for five years. I don't think I had the problem then.
This gun was made in 1983

I hate (with a capital "H") buying factory ammo, but I keep a few boxes around just for stuff like this where something that doesnt make sense is happening and I want to rule out an ammunition problem.
I dont claim to be a revolver expert, but it sounds like a cylinder issue. It either needs to be cleaned or possibly honed as @AJC1 stated.

 

[AJC1]

I don't know if it's related but this Blackhawk shoots at lower velocity than my other guns.
I shot 38 Special cowboy loads in both of these guns:
Blackhawk with 4 5/8 inch barrel shot 646 feet per second
Service Six with a 4 inch barrel shot 743 feet per second with the same handloads.

Otherwise I love this Blackhawk. It's a tack driver.

You probably have excessive cylinder gap dropping pressure and loosing velosity.

 

[Durango_Dave]

You probably have excessive cylinder gap dropping pressure and loosing velosity.

But the stuck cases make me think I've got high pressure.
The symptoms are confusing.
Low pressure would give low speeds.
High pressure would produce stuck cases.

EDIT: But a restriction would produce stuck cases and reduced speeds.

 

[AJC1]

But the stuck cases make me think I've got high pressure.
The symptoms are confusing.
Low pressure would give low speeds.
High pressure would produce stuck cases.

EDIT: But a restriction would produce stuck cases and reduced speeds.

Pressure and speed only correlate in a sealed system. A cylinder gap is a vent... the two problems may not be directly related... are you the first owner.... a cylinder gap is easy to check with feeler guages or valve shims and a micrometer

 

[Bearded Phil]

Were it me I'd bite the bullet and buy a box of factory FMJ 357 and shoot them to see if the cases still stick.

If so you may ask over the in the revolver area of the forum for ideas on diagnosing the issue.

If they don't stick with factory that will eliminate the gun as the issue and we can examine the hand loads as the problem.

 

[W.E.G.]

You cannot shoot .38 special, and then come behind it with .357 that's anything more than warm.

If you want to shoot mild loads in a .357, load mild loads in .357 brass, or shoot ONLY .38 Special.

Yes, you CAN clean the bejeezus out of the cylinders, and get them to the point where you can shoot hot .357 without sticking cases. But your'e signing up for a lot of work.

I have a 686. It sees NOTHING but mild .38's.

I have ANOTHER 686. I won't shoot .38 in it.
Not. Even. Once.

 

[W.E.G.]

If you do clean up the cylinders, use lots of KROIL and copper crack-pipe screens with a Lewis Lead Remover kit.
Then don't shoot any more 38 in it.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I have a Ruger Blackhawk with a 4 5/8 inch barrel.

When I handload for 357 Magnum my maximum velocity is 1200 feet per sec. Most of these are slow burning handgun powders. I am shooing 158 grain jacketed bullets (or sometimes plated but always 158 grain).

Some of these the cases are stuck so bad I cannot use the ejector. Instead I removed the cylinder from the gun and insert a dowel to tap each brass case out.

View attachment 1190992

Who handloads for 357?
What powder and charge do you use?
What velocities do you get?
Does anyone else get cases stuck when following manufacturers load data?

I don't have the problem with 44 Mag. My 44 mag handloads have heavier bullets (240 grain) and higher speeds.

That Berry’s plated bullet with a max charge of H110 has me a little concerned. There’s a big difference in strength between a plated bullet and a jacketed bullet. But, it’s a lesser issue, I think. I’d just be careful about max charges of hot powders like H110/W296 and plated bullets.


I think you’re on the right track with deep-cleaning and possibly de-leading the cylinders. Try a good copper-fouling eliminator, too. It’s possible those plated bullets are leaving crud behind.

 

[Durango_Dave]

I can clean out the lead but how? I can't seem to find the Lewis Lead Remover. Brownells and Missouri Bullet Company are out of them. There are also chemical solutions but they are pretty harsh.
I do have some Chore Boy copper scrubbers.
Actually that crud ring isn't lead so maybe I won't have such a hard time with it.

Berry's Plated bullets say they are good up to 1250 feet per sec.

I can also test this weekend with factory ammo. Maybe chronograph it to see if it's slower than advertised.

 

[Durango_Dave]

Hey I found this SliXprings-Scaper!
It sounds like just the thing to get rid of the crud ring.

 

[eddiememphis]

Hey I found this SliXprings-Scaper!
It sounds like just the thing to get rid of the crud ring.

Flare a .357 case to the inside diameter of the chamber and use that as a scraper. Save $25.

 

[Durango_Dave]

Flare a .357 case to the inside diameter of the chamber and use that as a scraper. Save $25.

No that's not going to ... well, maybe that's not such a bad idea after all.
Actually I think I'll try that right now. I sometimes flair a 357 case by mistake with the expanding die when I get them mixed in with the 38 Special.

 

[dcarr]

I've got a blackhawk, on a range visit i always shoot the .357 mag first followed by the .38 spl. My wrist prevents hot .357 loads and if I shoot .38spl first and then .357 the .38spl crud ring will interfere loading the .357 in the cylinder.
The earlier advice about trying with factory sounds good to me. Yeah I know how expensive .357 mag factory can be. I always leave the blackhawk loaded with factory at home so always have a partial box on hand .

 

[gwpercle]

Hey I found this SliXprings-Scaper!
It sounds like just the thing to get rid of the crud ring.

Dave ... Clean the chambers really well and then polish them ... a brass brush wrapped with 0000 steel wool ( a brass bore brush is a little too small hence the steel wool wrap) and any fine metal polishing paste ... J-B Bore compound , Flitz Metal Polish , Turtle Wax Chrome Polish and Rust Remover ... turn the brass brush/steel wool/ polisher by hand or slowly in a hand drill .
Once perfectly clean and polished and as slick as and smooth as a baby's bottom ... the cases will slide right out . And keep the chambers clean and polished ... and they will no longer stick !
Gary

 

[243winxb]

Your brass being used? Old well used nickel plated brass sticks for me. No spring back left in it.

Cylinders get cleaned with a chamber brush. They are larger then a bore brush.

Trim length? To long?

 

[AJC1]

Your brass being used? Old well used nickel plated brass sticks for me. No spring back left in it.

Cylinders get cleaned with a chamber brush. They are larger then a bore brush.

You mean that isn't what that useless 40 cal brush in the kit is for

 

[ms6852]

Great suggestions on cleaning the cylinders just in case there is crud built up. Another thing you could do if you do not want to buy factory ammo, is too drop your load data to minimum loads per the manual you use. If the case still gets stuck it is not pressure related. Shooting .38 special only out of a ..357 could be the issue as the gap is wider, plus a revolver is vented so I doubt it is pressure related.

You can shoot 38 special loads but I too would recommend you use .357 brass to shortened the gap. I like to use Bullseye about 4.5 for milder loads as my hands are getting arthritic and my EDC is a 686. As for cleaning the cylinder, many may frown upon my suggestion but I use a drill with a 40 cal copper brush or a .410 ga copper brush. Just a little over sized which to me creates enough friction to remove lead or copper build up. Any solvent will do and also use oil after the solvent and repeat the process with the 40 cal brush attached to a drill.

 

[W.E.G.]

The fouling that is hardest to remove is CARBON.

The flared cartridge case won't do much against case-mouth carbon rings.

You gotta solvent the carbon. KROIL and others do OK as a carbon solvent. Still gonna need elbow grease. If you can't get your hands on a Lewis Lead remover kit, a brass pipe-screen on a bore-brush works too.

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