.45 ACP Accuracy

Here is my 2 cents, my experience with the 45 is that it is very forgiving from an accuracy standpoint. Some loads are very accurate and most everything else you load in it is acceptably accurate from a target shooting perspective. The target 9mms for me take more effort to get an acceptable accurate load while many other loads just don't cut it in accuracy. My goal was generally to be in the 2" group range @ 50 yards when I was shooting matches and the 45, for me, is easier to do that with. YMMV

Saleen322 said:

My goal was generally to be in the 2" group range @ 50 yards when I was shooting matches and the 45, for me, is easier to do that with. YMMV

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I wish!

I was happy with 3" at 20 yds two weeks ago.... but hey i just got my last cataract done last week and we will see next week just how well this is gonna work out...... its been a long while where depending which glasses i had on, i could either see the sight or the target, but not both......... cant wait....

I know the difference isn’t as drastic between a .45 and 9mm, but a 2” group with a .22 sure looks worse than a 2” group with a 9mm just because there’s so much more space between the tiny holes a .22 makes.

So maybe it's all in your head?

Godsgunman said:

Good Monday all, just interested in your thoughts and opinions on why .45 ACP 'appears' to provide better accuracy than other handgun calibers. I've owned a couple 45s in my life and both have been extremely accurate. The first a Sig p220 and also an XD. I have had 40s and 9s which are appropriately accurate to but not to the level of the 45s with exception of my Astra 75 9mm.
Is the difference due to barrel quality? Bullet design? Slower speed of the heavier, fatter projectile? Difference in recoil? (45s back into hand Vs 9,40 more upward motion) Maybe they just fit my hand and eye better. What are your thoughts and opinions?

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I believe it's more a matter of the gun, the shooter and the ammo then it is a matter of caliber. In general most shooters will be more accurate with the lesser recoiling 9mm than with the more powerful 45 acp. This has been proven by the U.S. military and was a factor in the switch from 45 to 9mm in the 1980s. It must be noted though that this was in training raw recruits to shoot handguns. In general the 9mm is easier to shoot well for newer shooters.

For experienced shooters it makes little difference and the gun, the ammo used make more of a difference.

In your hands with the ammo you are using you shoot your Sig P220 better than your 9mm guns. Sig makes some of the best 45s out there in terms or factory production guns for accuracy. If you were to get one or more of their 9mm and tried various ammo from it your view may change.

Professional gunsmiths are building guns in 45 and 9mm that are equally accurate for Bullseye competition, based on stuff found on the web. Some even claim the 9mm is more accurate, but the difference is measured in fractions of an inch. This is based on data from shooting at 50 yards. Thus, it's probably fair to say that neither has a obvious advantage in accuracy.

My best shooting is with a 1911 in .45ACP, but I think that's more because of the trigger than the chambering.

I had a Browning BDA .45 (a.k.a. SIG P220), that with match ammo could readily keep up with a Colt Gold Cup. Two different designs but similar results. And this wasn't just me; several other shooters could do the same thing with both guns. Currently I have a Browning Hi-Power, SIG P229, and a CZ P01 which are all accurate in their own right but then again I have never tried match grade 9mm. ammo to see just how accurate they might be.

Thinking about 2" at 50Yds.The black on a 50Yd standard bullseye target is 8" diameter. Between myself, pistol and ammunition the combination there of was not 2" group potential on a regular basis. With that said I'll take my share of the blame. Putting shots into the black at 50Yds was not a problem but small measurement groups with in the black was not always constantly obtainable. I did qualify expert in the Marine Corps but that was a different course of fire. The best 1911 series pistol I had was a commercial Colt rebuilt by Flaigs in Millvale Pa a long-long time out of business.

To have a pistol and ammo combo that can do 2" @ 50 yards in a mechanical rest is not an everyday occurrence and I don't ever recall seeing anyone do that in a conventional pistol match. The shooter's error would be added to the limits of the pistol-ammo so even if the shooter broke every shot perfect (not likely), the best you could do with that pistol-ammo combination would be 2" @ 50 yards. I shot a little Free Pistol and even the best shooters that I seen, certainly not me, rarely shot groups close to the 2" range at 50 meters. Those pistols with the right ammo can do 0.5" or better @ 50 meters.

I can't explain it other than the fact that certain cartridges that have been around a long time seem to be the most accurate, provided they are housed in an accurate pistol or revolver. Seems like over the years development of such rounds has weeded out the bad traits the round may have possessed. The .22 L.R., the .38 Special, the .44 Special, and the .45 ACP all seem to bear this out.

Why? I have no idea.


Many years ago, when I was much younger, I shot a five shot, twenty five yard group, standing, that measured 5/8" extreme spread. That is .45 ACP, with this S&W Model 625:



Bob Wright

OP may have a good point. The .45 ACP gives a heavy "push" in recoil, where the other chamberings give a snappy recoil. It could be that the .45's recoil movement is affected less by slight differences in one's grip from shot to shot. One of the gun mags had an article on shooting from a rest - how to be most accurate for gun testing. The author emphasized having the same grip, rest point, pressure, etc. from shot to shot. My 2 cents.

THR rocks.

I believe there is some credence to the short-n-fat bullet being more stable (or easier to stabilize) than the relatively longer and skinnier one which can make the 45 fly more accurately. The ACP cartridge case is also superior to the tapered 9mm when it comes to chambering consistently and the velocity range of the common projectiles is narrower which might make more compatible with the rifling. Of course it's possible to make a very accurate 9mm...the SIG 210 comes to mind, but I think it's easier with the 45.

One thing that IS provable is that equal accuracy on a scoring target will always give the 45 a higher score being that the larger diameter cuts a higher scoring ring that the smaller one just misses. Sometimes bigger IS better.

Accuracy differences between the 45ACP and 9X19mm one could compare service grade semiautomatic pistols such as a Glock G21 & G17, S&W MP 45 & 9 and Ruger Rap 45 & 9. Testing the previously mentioned would be more of a apples to apples comparison than selecting competition target grade semiautomatic pistols. Instead of shooting off the bench stand up and shoot. As an example lets use the IDPA target with the 8"Dia scoring ring as an example or the target of your choice and time parameters.

Hangingrock said:

Accuracy differences between the 45ACP and 9X19mm one could compare service grade semiautomatic pistols such as a Glock G21 & G17, S&W MP 45 & 9 and Ruger Rap 45 & 9. Testing the previously mentioned would be more of a apples to apples comparison than selecting competition target grade semiautomatic pistols. Instead of shooting off the bench stand up and shoot. As an example lets use the IDPA target with the 8"Dia scoring ring as an example or the target of your choice and time parameters.

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That has nothing to do with inherent accuracy of the cartridge however.

I bet if you had a bench rifle in each caliber in a machine rest there would be no difference

Hangingrock said:

Accuracy differences between the 45ACP and 9X19mm one could compare service grade semiautomatic pistols such as a Glock G21 & G17, S&W MP 45 & 9 and Ruger Rap 45 & 9. Testing the previously mentioned would be more of a apples to apples comparison than selecting competition target grade semiautomatic pistols. Instead of shooting off the bench stand up and shoot. As an example lets use the IDPA target with the 8"Dia scoring ring as an example or the target of your choice and time parameters.

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Testing in the most accurate platforms available will allow for a true test of the cartridge.

There is something that exists that I call "inherently accurate calibers". I consider 45acp to be one of them. .222 Remington, 270 Winchester, and 30-06 comes to mind. And some more. I also know of some "inherently inaccurate calibers".

But it's too late to get flamed tonight.

One approach that people take when addressing the accuracy of different calibers is their experience with different guns, for example, gun A in 45 Auto is more accurate than gun B in 9mm, therefore the 45 is more accurate. You don't have to think about this very hard to see the problem with this logic.

A different approach is the accuracy potential of each cartridge in guns built for accuracy, such as those built for Bullseye competition, where extreme accuracy is the goal. In this case, accuracy is measured at 50 yards, and the usual standard is a 10-shot group. The holy grail is 10 shots in about an inch. My impression from stuff on the web, based on information from Bullseye gunsmiths and Bullseye shooters, is that the 45 and 9mm are equally accurate. Some folks have claimed that the 9mm has a slight edge. Differences between the two calibers are measured in fractions of an inch.

The better gunsmiths include the names David Sams, Joe Chambers and the late Jerry Keefer, and no doubt there are others. Mr. Chambers has posted on his website, "His 1911 style pistols in .45acp shoot 10 shot groups at 50 yards between 1.100” and 1.500”, with the average of 1.350”. The guns built in 9mm and .38 Super average just under 1.00” for 10 shots at 50 yards."

http://www.samscustomgunworksusa.com/
http://chamberscustom.com/

Obviously, ammunition has a lot to do with accuracy, but even this is difficult to nail down because different guns like different loads. In any case, if the 'experts' feel the cartridges are roughly equally accurate, and they have the data to support that view, their opinions are probably the ones that matter the most on this topic.

fxvr5 said:

One approach that people take when addressing the accuracy of different calibers is their experience with different guns, for example, gun A in 45 Auto is more accurate than gun B in 9mm, therefore the 45 is more accurate. You don't have to think about this very hard to see the problem with this logic.

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Addressing the subject from the point of view from the average person/shooter,yes the average person/shooter is not an expert of expertise but they have their experiences which they draw their conclusion's from, in their collective experience and most likely see little or no practical difference in accuracy between the 45ACP and 9X19mm dependent on the firing platform utilized.

Individual shooters I've witnessed on average don't shoot at the 50Yd line but rather shorter distances such as 25Yds and under more like 7Yds or less. My unscientific observations are made from observing individual shooters over the decades in a shooting club that has a membership limit of 2000 members, a shooting association dedicated to handgun shooting with a membership of 800 and some odd individuals of which I am a land share owner and other handgun shooting venues. Yes its all unscientific and won't meet logic standards espoused by some.

From a reload perspective, plus/minus 0.2 grains of powder likely has a bigger impact on a 9mm than a 45 ACP.

I don't think it makes much of a difference at typical handgun range.

Quite frankly, I find platform makes a bigger difference for me than caliber. I'm a hero with a 1911, but with a polymer pistol I'm nothing special.

I've never noted 45 being any more accurate. I have never fired a 40 S&W or 380 that was quite as accurate as other rounds. Between 45, 9mm, 38, 357 mag, 44 mag, and 10mm I see differences between the individual guns, not the cartridges.

I agree with the "bigger hole" theory.

My shooting buddy and I were shooting at seven yards the other day so that he could try out some CC handguns and loads. I got bored with my CC guns and started shooting my 6" 22lr revolver and my 5" 45acp revolver. I shot about 25 rounds out of each, and in each case put all but one or two "fliers" into the black. The 22lr target had lots of little holes in it, with a fair amount of paper left. On the 45acp target, the entire middle was just gone.

The 45acp target was much more impressive, even though the accuracy was pretty much identical.

I'm not a very good shooter, really, but using target revolvers at seven yards makes anyone look good.

frogfurr said:

. . . I also know of some "inherently inaccurate calibers".

But it's too late to get flamed tonight.

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Ah, come on man. You can't leave us hanging like that!