How a ‘50s-era New York Knife Law Landed Thousands in Jail

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How a ‘50s-era New York Knife Law Landed Thousands in Jail, Padded Stop and Frisk Numbers, and Brought Right and Left Together - http://joncampbell.org/?p=984


Using a very strict interpretation of New York state’s law that bans gravity knives, NYC police have continued the Stop and Frisk policy, but this time they claim they are targeting people with illegal knives. The Village Voice, Jon Campbell in particular, has done great work on this issue (here is a link to his original piece), along with lawyers working for the Bronx Defenders. The numbers are staggering. In 2011, pre-Floyd, police used Stop and Frisk to stop over 680,000 people in a single year. When Floyd ended Stop and Frisk in 2013, the city continued arresting a huge number of people for violations of the Gravity Knife law (Penal Code 265.01). The switch from Stop and Frisk to gravity knife stops resulted in a lower number of overall stops, but similar numbers of knife prosecutions. Furthermore, even if the overall rate dropped it is still staggeringly high.

This niche law targeting exceptionally rare knives continued, post Floyd, to be one of the five most frequently charged crimes in New York City. For all intents and purposes, the Gravity Knife law enforcement has replaced Stop and Frisk. Thousands of tradesman have been arrested and prosecuted for carrying a knife and a visible pocket clip has become enough reason to stop a person given that random stops were now (and always were) illegal. The Village Voice reported that some theater unions were having their tradesman stopped and arrested so often that they were doing training sessions on carrying knives and interacting with police. Additionally, the law may have been applied in racially problematic ways.

The trick behind this bait and switch whereby Stop and Frisk continues with a new name is the Wrist Flick test. In litigation on the Gravity Knife stops, helmed by KnifeRights (Copeland v. Vance, which, as this article was being written, lost in the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals, an en banc hearing is pending), police have described how they determine if a knife is a gravity knife (specifically ignoring the traditional knife world definition of a gravity knife–i.e. an automatic knife without a spring that falls open and locks in place). They are trained in the academy use centrifugal force to move the knife down towards the ground and snap it open at the last moment. Under this test, virtually any folder counts as a gravity knife. If you are knife guy watch this video of the Wrist Flick test and then try it yourself (here, by the way, is an actual gravity knife in action). Your most legal, most mundane folder would qualify as a Gravity Knife.

The effect of the Wrist Flick test is that Stop and Frisk, on a slightly smaller scale, lives on. NYC has the most restrictive knife laws in the US and this is why. There is ongoing litigation challenging the Wrist Flick test and the gravity knife law. There has also been numerous efforts to change the law in the legislature, but all of them have been stymied.

The most interesting thing here is the groups fighting the law–on one hand you have staunch Second Amendment and knife folks, typically conservatives. On the other hand you have civil liberty folks and social justice progressive. Let’s be clear-Knife Rights and the New York Times are allies on this issue. That fact along should tell you something–if, in this most partisan of climates, those two groups can work together to fight a law, that law must be REALLY bad. The numbers bear it out–Stop and Frisk lives on, cloaked in the mask of a 1950s era Gravity Knife law. If you care about personal freedom, the right to carry, or just the simple idea of being left alone as you go through the world, pay attention to this fight both in courts and in the legislature. It could come to a government entity near you. Right now, in California, a similarly strict interpretation of fixed blades is starting to cause problems (lawmakers in California: no, a folder in the open position is not a fixed blade).
 
Section 10-133 of the NYC Administrative Code says you cannot carry an exposed knife, except for certain exemptions. So it's not stop and frisk if an officer sees an exposed knife. They regard the carry/pocket clip as being part of the knife, so if the clip is showing on the outside of your pocket, well, they've seen an exposed knife. This is not the law in all of NYS, just NYC.

If it's determined the knife in question is a gravity knife or switchblade, well, the event just jumped from an admin. code violation to a crime.

Advice: if you're in NYC, keep your under 4" knife, under 4" being the legal limit, deep in your pocket.

Here's the admin. code section re: exposed knives, followed by the exemptions:

c. It shall be unlawful for any person in a public place, street or park, to wear outside of his or her clothing or carry in open view any knife with an exposed or unexposed blade unless such person is actually using such knife for a lawful purpose as set forth in subdivision d of this section.

d. The provisions of subdivisions b and c of this section shall not apply to (1) persons in the military service of the state of New York when duly authorized to carry or display knives pursuant to regulations issued by the chief of staff to the governor; (2) police officers and peace officers as defined in the criminal procedure law; (3) participants in special events when authorized by the police commissioner; (4) persons in the military or other service of the United States, in pursuit of official duty authorized by federal law; (5) emergency medical technicians or voluntary or paid ambulance drivers while engaged in the performance of their duties; or (6) any person displaying or in possession of a knife otherwise in violation of this section when such knife (a) is being used for or transported immediately to or from a place where it is used for hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, picnicking or any employment, trade or occupation customarily requiring the use of such knife; or (b) is displayed or carried by a member of a theatrical group, drill team, military or para-military unit or veterans organization, to, from, or during a meeting, parade or other performance or practice for such event, which customarily requires the carrying of such knife; or (c) is being transported directly to or from a place of purchase, sharpening or repair, packaged in such a manner as not to allow easy access to such knife while it is transported; or (d) is displayed or carried by a duly enrolled member of the Boy or Girl Scouts of America or a similar organization or society and such display or possession is necessary to participate in the activities of such organization or society.
 
If it's determined the knife in question is a gravity knife or switchblade, well, the event just jumped from an admin. code violation to a crime.
What you're failing to understand is that DA Vance and the NYPD are applying the "gravity knife" definition so broadly that almost every modern folder is outlawed. Further, there's no no uniform standard, so there's way for anyone to know if they have an illegal knife or not. You can post what the law says all you want, but that's not how it's being enforced.
 
Thanks for posting that! That's a crazy interpretation. :scrutiny:
Walking around I find the exposed pocket clip an easy target for LEO's to initiate a "conversation". People display far to much with their EDC and that's a :thumbdown:.
 
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Aesop had a fable, which illustrates the real logic behind this crazy knife law:

A Wolf was drinking at a spring on a hillside. On looking up he saw a Lamb just beginning to drink lower down. “There’s my supper,” thought he, “if only I can find some excuse to seize it.” He called out to the Lamb, “How dare you muddle my drinking water?”

“No,” said the Lamb; “if the water is muddy up there, I cannot be the cause of it, for it runs down from you to me.”

“Well, then,” said the Wolf, “why did you call me bad names this time last year?”

“That cannot be,” said the Lamb; “I am only six months old.”

“I don’t care,” snarled the Wolf; “if it was not you, it was your father;” and with that he rushed upon the poor little Lamb and ate her all up.


Moral : The tyrant can always find an excuse for his tyranny.
 
If it's determined the knife in question is a gravity knife or switchblade,

Here's the problem, the knives in question aren't gravity knives or switchblades. There's no button or other mechanism on the handle. Most are biased towards closure or detent retained one hand openers. The police have been trained in NYC to open these knives using several tries and even when they go to court and fail to do so on the first attempt are given enough attempts to eventually open the knife. This happens to 4,000 to 6,000 people a year in Manhattan.

This is why the surprising partnership between the ACLU, Legal Defense League and Knife Rights has sprung up and all have worked together against NYC and their abuse.
 
What you're failing to understand is that DA Vance and the NYPD are applying the "gravity knife" definition so broadly that almost every modern folder is outlawed. Further, there's no no uniform standard, so there's way for anyone to know if they have an illegal knife or not. You can post what the law says all you want, but that's not how it's being enforced.
What makes you think I’m failing to understand this? The Manhattan DA’s office, in conjunction with the NYPD, is prosecuting these cases, not so much in the other 4 boroughs. I blame the judiciary branch, the same people who recently redefined an assisted opening knife as a switchblade, for not throwing these cases out.

The state agency I worked for in NYC did things differently. If you came into one of our facilities with a knife, if not an obvious automatic, it was measured, and if under 4”, we gave you a receipt and it was returned to you when you left. NYPD plays by it’s own rules, don’t help them by letting a pocket clip be seen.
 
This is an example of a law which does NOT criminalize an actual act against a person or society, nor does it have a victim. (Was that redundant?)

I ran across a phrase a couple years back that describes such laws: "Malum Prohibitum".

I'm sure Spats and gang know this one, what with them being fancy-pants lawyers and all.

;)

It means, in a nutshell, "Illegal only because the laws SAYS it's prohibited and not because it's actually a bad thing".

("Malum in se" means "illegal because it's bad in and of itself"...like murder, assault, robbery, or rape.)

So, merely HAVING such a knife is considered illegal. Not using it for nefarious purposes, just HAVING it. Never mind it's a perfectly useful tool for any number of perfectly legal, and not harmful, activities.

Typically, justifications for such laws seem to revolve around such things as associating them with some kind of nefarious criminal activities like gang violence or homicide OR the nebulous "The ONLY reason to have (insert object) is to commit (insert horrible criminal act)".

Personally, it's my belief that if the government has to resort to such tactics to criminalize something like this, then it's typically politically and fiscally motivated. A tyrannical behavior, even if some people don't understand this.
 
NYPD plays by it’s own rules, don’t help them by letting a pocket clip be seen.

Yes! Don't show a clip, but they've also used other pretenses to stop and empty people's pockets and charge them with gravity/switchblade violations.

Remarkably the state legislature has voted twice overwhelmingly supporting Knife Rights/ACLU/Legal Aid supported legislation that would clarify state law on gravity knives and switchblades and thereby stop NYC from doing this. Both times the governor vetoed the bills in spite of the massive bipartisan support (the second time after his stated concerns with the first bill were addressed). Both Democrats and Republicans in the legislature had voted to stop this and both times the governor killed it.
 
TX once had a governor who vetoed the initial CCW bill--refusing to even allow a referendum so the public could let their wishes be known. The next year, when her term ran out, she was voted out of office. TX has not elected another Democrat governor since her initial election in 1991.

There's a simple solution to NYC's problem. People just have to make up their minds to do it.
 
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