NICS Denial - possible benign reasons? Colorado CBI

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bikemutt said:
They keep records of all BG checks for 24 hours; BG checks which result in a deny are not purged. I don't know what the retention period is for deny BG checks, most likely they will be purged if successfully appealed.

I know for a fact I've been delayed at one store and, while that's pending, I'll get a proceed at another store. Deny is a whole 'nother story. I wouldn't try to get around a deny personally, there's a procedure to appeal it, that's what I'd choose to do.
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Understood, it makes sense. Thanks again for the advice!
 
This is based from VA, so not sure it will apply for you. I’ve had a bunch of LEO (state and Fed) get delayed…none have been denied. With that said two of them have a UPIN and from them it was a waste of time as their still delayed. One of them is a State Trooper that was stationed at a barracks across the street from the building where we (VA dealers) call into…long story short he asked one day (while in uniform) why he is always delayed…they had no reason. The other guy can be seen within touching distance of Trump during the Inauguration Day Parade…delayed every time as well…go figure.
 
BSA1 said:
So your Colorado Conceal Carry License does not take the place of the NCIS check?

In Kansas my Conceal Carry License takes the place of the NCIS check. I just fill out the 4473, present my CCL and pay the bill. It usually takes all of 10 minutes.

I wonder how many other States require the NCIS check even though the buyer has a CCL?

Identity theft is a big problem in our country.
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Florida requires a background check even if you have a CWFL; that said, they use their own system, not the NICS
 
My guess is states that are point-of-contact (POC) for firearm transfer background checks still contact NICS under the hood. I'm sure POC is not intended to be less comprehensive than a NICS check.
 
Thank God I love in Texas where the License to Carry (LTC) eliminates the need for a NICS check! I am a gunsmith with FFL and do transfers for several of the mail order dealers. About 75% of those transfers are LTC holders. I charge them less because of less hassle.
Of the remainder, I have noted that if the individual ever had a secret clearance they would at least require further investigation by a supervisor, sometimes a delay. One customer who is licensed to handle radiation sources for X-rays was delayed so often he got his LTC just to eliminate the NICS check. Once you are in a government data base, you are there to stay.
 
I'm still waiting on the response, I hope this thread will be helpful for people going through this in future. I appreciate all your input, this is a side of firearms ownership I have never learned so much about in so small a time span.
 
Kp321 said:
…. I have noted that if the individual ever had a secret clearance they would at least require further investigation by a supervisor, sometimes a delay.....
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Myth.
Having a "security clearance" has absolutely no effect on a NICS check. It is solely a name and descriptive information match.
Think about it, why on earth would someone with a "secret clearance, someone ALREADY vetted by the FBI, military or other Federal LE agency, require further investigation because they have ALREADY been vetted? It's not only illogical, it's pure unadulterated hogwash.

I have 6-8 customers on Secret Service presidential protective detail with TS clearance, and 20-30 FBI and other Federal LE with TS clearance and NONE have ever required "further review" by the FBI NICS.
 
Denial is not just a river in Egypt : As far as the original topic goes I was once denied on a NICS check. Too bad, I really wanted that revolver too.

Contacting NICS and finding out why I was denied : I actually called NICS and lucked out and found someone that would speak with me and he told me that it was because of a two decades old felony arrest.

Details : One of the most important lessons that an 18 year old can learn firsthand is that if you hang out with stupid and reckless people they're apt to drag you into their drama. At any rate one of my friends had stolen something and since I was with him (even though I was in the car in the parking lot waiting for him) they charged me as well in an attempt to get me to testify against him. I refused, hired an attorney and fought it and pled to a greatly reduced charge, paid a small fine (I think that it was $115) and quit hanging out with the guy.

To make a long story short it wasn't drug related or a crime of violence. From what I understand if the denial isn't a case of mistaken identity or from a speeding ticket mistakenly gone to warrant or something of that nature and the denial stems from an actual criminal case this can complicate things if it's one of those two. In that case it's best to speak with an attorney well versed in firearms laws

Never heard another thing about it after I pled to the reduced charge and paid that fine and I never had any problem buying guns for the next two decades. Also never had a problem when going through the background checks to get an armored car/armed guard license in Arizona for Brinks or to get my National Registry, Arizona or Texas EMT license. I even obtained a 'Set Aside' for the misdemeanor infraction (California apparently has what they call a 'Set Aside' for misdemeanors instead of an 'Expungement'). Luckily the fact that I'm obsessive compulsive had saved the day again, if I hadn't gotten that Set Aside umpteen years before then it would have taken much longer to prove to NICS that I wasn't a felon.

I guess the lady at NICS just scanned my recorded entries, saw that I had a felony arrest and didn't notice (or maybe that information just wasn't available on that specific computer) that the charge had been reduced to a misdemeanor infraction and a fine.

After lucking out initially and getting someone on the phone at NICS who looked it up on their computer and could see what caused them to deny the purchase he said to mail a letter to NICS formally contesting the denial. He said thst besides the letter to also include the denial number that they gave me at the gun store and then to also include the California Set Aside. So that's what I did as well as making sure that the letter was certified to record that the letter was sent out.

A couple of weeks after mailing the Set Aside and the letter formally contesting the denial to NICS I received a letter stating that the denial has been assigned to a specific examiner and that he'd be looking into it and giving me his contact details if I had any questions.

Conclusion : I called the examiner at NICS roughly every two to three weeks to make sure that I kept on top of it and to make sure that he'd remember who I was, but not enough to bug him. It took about 3 months to finally get a letter from them stating that I was okay to buy firearms again and that the matter was resolved. Never had another issue buying guns since then.

Unfortunately the snubbie that I wanted was gone and I never have gotten another one. Certainly not at that price. Other purchases keep getting in the way.

Since that time (2001) I've gotten a Texas CHL (I had recently moved to Texas when the denial occurred) and that means that I don't have to undergo a background check each and every time I buy a gun.

Still haven't talked to the guy that got me arrested 27 years ago.

That's how this went for me and hopefully you find this post useful. My advise is to document, document, document, to have all your ducks in a row, to store all those documents, notes and the contact details in a place where you remember where all of the documents are at and to respectfully keep contacting them to resolve the situation. Good luck.
 
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hdwhit said:
What database from which NICS draws includes national agency security clearances?
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AGAIN, such information wouldn't affect a NICS check even if it was in one of the three databases the FBI uses: the National Crime Information Center (NCIC) the Interstate Identification Index and the NICS Index. A security clearances isn't and never has been a prohibiting factor and is 100% myth at best.
 
dogtown tom wrote:
AGAIN, such information wouldn't affect a NICS check even if it was in one of the three databases the FBI uses: the National Crime Information Center (NCIC) the Interstate Identification Index and the NICS Index. A security clearances isn't and never has been a prohibiting factor and is 100% myth at best.
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Agreed - the database of people with National Agency clearance - although already totally hacked and downloaded by Chinese intelligence - has nothing to do with NICS background checks. I asked the question because your post #35 seems to say the exact opposite.

Someone with a Top Secret Security Clearance with NATO Cosmic and Presentment of Energy endorsements can still be denied the right to purchase a firearm. Likewise, denial of a National Agency clearance is not a bar to purchasing a firearm.
 
Browning said:
Denial is not just a river in Egypt : As far as the original topic goes I was once denied on a NICS check. Too bad, I really wanted that revolver too.

Contacting NICS and finding out why I was denied : I actually called NICS and lucked out and found someone that would speak with me and he told me that it was because of a two decades old felony arrest.

Details : One of the most important lessons that an 18 year old can learn firsthand is that if you hang out with stupid and reckless people they're apt to drag you into their drama. At any rate one of my friends had stolen something and since I was with him (even though I was in the car in the parking lot waiting for him) they charged me as well in an attempt to get me to testify against him. I refused, hired an attorney and fought it and pled to a greatly reduced charge, paid a small fine (I think that it was $115) and quit hanging out with the guy.

To make a long story short it wasn't drug related or a crime of violence. From what I understand if the denial isn't a case of mistaken identity or from a speeding ticket mistakenly gone to warrant or something of that nature and the denial stems from an actual criminal case this can complicate things if it's one of those two. In that case it's best to speak with an attorney well versed in firearms laws

Never heard another thing about it after I pled to the reduced charge and paid that fine and I never had any problem buying guns for the next two decades. Also never had a problem when going through the background checks to get an armored car/armed guard license in Arizona for Brinks or to get my National Registry, Arizona or Texas EMT license. I even obtained a 'Set Aside' for the misdemeanor infraction (California apparently has what they call a 'Set Aside' for misdemeanors instead of an 'Expungement'). Luckily the fact that I'm obsessive compulsive had saved the day again, if I hadn't gotten that Set Aside umpteen years before then it would have taken much longer to prove to NICS that I wasn't a felon.

I guess the lady at NICS just scanned my recorded entries, saw that I had a felony arrest and didn't notice (or maybe that information just wasn't available on that specific computer) that the charge had been reduced to a misdemeanor infraction and a fine.

After lucking out initially and getting someone on the phone at NICS who looked it up on their computer and could see what caused them to deny the purchase he said to mail a letter to NICS formally contesting the denial. He said thst besides the letter to also include the denial number that they gave me at the gun store and then to also include the California Set Aside. So that's what I did as well as making sure that the letter was certified to record that the letter was sent out.

A couple of weeks after mailing the Set Aside and the letter formally contesting the denial to NICS I received a letter stating that the denial has been assigned to a specific examiner and that he'd be looking into it and giving me his contact details if I had any questions.

Conclusion : I called the examiner at NICS roughly every two to three weeks to make sure that I kept on top of it and to make sure that he'd remember who I was, but not enough to bug him. It took about 3 months to finally get a letter from them stating that I was okay to buy firearms again and that the matter was resolved. Never had another issue buying guns since then.

Unfortunately the snubbie that I wanted was gone and I never have gotten another one. Certainly not at that price. Other purchases keep getting in the way.

Since that time (2001) I've gotten a Texas CHL (I had recently moved to Texas when the denial occurred) and that means that I don't have to undergo a background check each and every time I buy a gun.

Still haven't talked to the guy that got me arrested 27 years ago.

That's how this went for me and hopefully you find this post useful. My advise is to document, document, document, to have all your ducks in a row, to store all those documents, notes and the contact details in a place where you remember where all of the documents are at and to respectfully keep contacting them to resolve the situation. Good luck.
Click to expand...

I really appreciate you making the time to share this with us. I admire that you made the effort to remedy your situation. It gives me hope that I will be able to buy firearms again at some point. I'll have to wait the 30 days for the response, then I will contact them once a week or so.

Thanks again, much appreciated.
 
5 years or so ago I was denied at the local pawnshop. I've known the fella there for years and we were both shocked as it wasn't my first purchase there. He gave me the paperwork and a week later before I had sent the packet in he calls me, "still want the rifle? Come get it NICS called, you're approved." No explanation from NICS and I haven't had so much as a delay since then. Mistakes happen? I dont' know but I was relieved. Good luck to you.
 
CBI has their own database and their own criteria. Unlike NICS, CBI has denial on arrest policy, which means that if their records show an arrest without a disposition, it's a denial and it's on you to clear it up. This includes warrants, bench or active.
 
MachIVshooter said:
CBI has their own database and their own criteria. Unlike NICS, CBI has denial on arrest policy, which means that if their records show an arrest without a disposition, it's a denial and it's on you to clear it up. This includes warrants, bench or active.
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FBI NICS does the same.
"Missing disposition" is not an uncommon reason for a denial or delay.
 
13Bravo said:
5 years or so ago I was denied at the local pawnshop. I've known the fella there for years and we were both shocked as it wasn't my first purchase there. He gave me the paperwork and a week later before I had sent the packet in he calls me, "still want the rifle? Come get it NICS called, you're approved." No explanation from NICS and I haven't had so much as a delay since then. Mistakes happen? I dont' know but I was relieved. Good luck to you.
Click to expand...

Same thing here about a year ago, denied on a rifle purchase. FFL could not believe it since we've been doing business for years. He advised me to hang in for a couple days. He called me later and said NICS called him with a proceed. The only details I got is the examiner who called him was not happy they made a mistake in my case.

Mistakes do happen though. It must be especially frustrating for individuals who've already met a high bar in terms of being checked out.
 
First time I was delayed 20 years ago I was told I could clear the whole thing up by getting all my warrant or arrest records from the sheriffs dept then call up records dept at the County City building and ask if there was any reason for me to get delayed. So I did and was told that there was nothing in my files and that they only keep records15 years, so I kept pursuing in hopes of finding what the reason was and finally about 10 years ago I was told by either the FBI or BATF, don't remember which that the reason I get delayed is....They CANNOT FIND A REASON and until they find the hidden cause they cannot give a proceed to my gun purchase. I should also mention I have had a concealed weapons permit for well over 20 years.and that I get delayed 100% of the time. Fortunately my wife buys the same kind of guns that I like to shoot and lets me shoot hers.
 
I have good news gents, my denial was overturned.

So the CBI was actually quite helpful in their letter. It turns out that the teller ran my check as a US citizen which I am not (yet) so it conflicted with my having my resident ID listed elsewhere on the form. Their letter offered me advice on how to avoid that in future. It also said that as I was successful in under 30 days I could purchase the firearm without another NICs check.

I went to the store and amazingly they still had what I wanted, and said that even though the letter doesn't require another check they would still do it and call the CBI at the same time. So 10mins goes by and the FFL says that I had been delayed and would need to wait 3 working days.

Needless to say I was fairly upset, it was very frustrating. I went home and at 9pm that night I got a call from the FFL who had called the CBI and had read them the riot act. Turns out the CBI had entered my information incorrectly and proceeded to approve the purchase.

I collected my new pistol this morning and am worlds the wiser for the experience. I cannot thank you all enough for sharing your stories with me.

Thank you all, have a wonderful weekend.
 
Thanks for the follow up post.... A bit of careful persistence often un-snarls bureaucratic BS - and every time I hit a paperwork (or regulation type snag) I'm forced to remember the years when I was a "good bureaucrat" who made his share of mistakes - that certainly inconvenienced someone...

Glad it worked out for you.
 
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