Safe Queen (collectibles)

life is too short not to shoot such fine guns, those are really nice looking guns but if i had them i'd be shooting them!

Firearms need regular exercise.

Love that FN 49 Venezuelan contract Mauser! Very nice!

The others are good too ..... just not as ......NICE as the 1st one.

Nice!

Just a personal preference here that if i cant shoot it, i wont own it. No matter how beautiful or ugly it must function. Even if its just a few rounds a year.

But if someone wants to not shoot a gun and collect it, I say do what makes you happy. I wont judge you.

I know a man who has in his possession the highest conditioned Winchester Garand on the planet. It has been graded at 99+% The metal is flawless, the wood entirely unblemished. Perfectly struck cartouche.

Now, here's the problem with shooting a collectible firearm in that high condition. The operative word is "Collectible". What I am about to say does not apply to High Points. Once a gun reaches a grading of 97% each extra point will dramatically increase the value, sometimes, depending on the gun, by as much as 100%. Anything that removes finish degrades the value of the gun. A colt S.A.A.is a perfect example. A gun with an unturned cylinder is both very rare and very valuable. The aforementioned Garand man has one of those, too. He let me hold it, but I was threatened with a closed casket funeral if I cocked that hammer.

Long story short, just a few rounds can easily knock off a percentage point or two. If my friend put a clip through that Garand it would be worth thousands less than it is now.

Yes, I have shot my avatar. Exactly 7 times. But the gun writer Les sent it to put 200 rounds through it, so....what the hell...

tark said:

I know a man who has in his possession the highest conditioned Winchester Garand on the planet. It has been graded at 99+% The metal is flawless, the wood entirely unblemished. Perfectly struck cartouche.

Now, here's the problem with shooting a collectible firearm in that high condition. The operative word is "Collectible". What I am about to say does not apply to High Points. Once a gun reaches a grading of 97% each extra point will dramatically increase the value, sometimes, depending on the gun, by as much as 100%. Anything that removes finish degrades the value of the gun. A colt S.A.A.is a perfect example. A gun with an unturned cylinder is both very rare and very valuable. The aforementioned Garand man has one of those, too. He let me hold it, but I was threatened with a closed casket funeral if I cocked that hammer.

Long story short, just a few rounds can easily knock off a percentage point or two. If my friend put a clip through that Garand it would be worth thousands less than it is now.

Yes, I have shot my avatar. Exactly 7 times. But the gun writer Les sent it to put 200 rounds through it, so....what the hell...

Click to expand...

A gun that just sits in the safe and is never fired does not really have any value at all. Points does not make any difference.

More so than condition I refrain from shooting some collectible guns because they are so obscure. Even the expendable parts like firing pins and extractors are a rarity.

Do you know how hard it was to find an 1883 Hotchkiss firing pin!

Bill Raby said:

A gun that just sits in the safe and is never fired does not really have any value at all. Points does not make any difference.

Click to expand...

So if you had that Garand....would you shoot it and make it worth half what it was? Or would you sell it and buy a bunch of guns you COULD shoot without lowering their value?

What's that? You would sell it? But you just said it's worthless because it sits in a safe and it never gets fired and percentage points don't mean anything......

Your argument is ridiculous
.

Jessesky said:

More so than condition I refrain from shooting some collectible guns because they are so obscure. Even the expendable parts like firing pins and extractors are a rarity.

Do you know how hard it was to find an 1883 Hotchkiss firing pin!

Click to expand...

A very good point and yet another reason guns sit in safes without being fired.

Those are gorgeous, espescially the 49! I kick myself for not bending heaven and earth to grab one in .30-06 a few years ago.

Ive actually divested myself of a couple of safe queens recently to buy more shooters, but there are some guns which I derive pleasure from just admiring the fit and finish.

I did just shoot my unfired '67 Colt for the first time recently. Dont care if it lowered the value much because I never intend to sell it.

I did wear gloves while shooting it, though.....

lionking said:

I knew when I started this thread there would be two types of thought, those that believe a gun is worthless (to them) if not shot and those that believe in collecting also.

Understand that through decades of aquiring guns, I had always intended to shoot them. However the ones I posted especially the pair of Mauser and FN 49 I can't find a scratch or ding on them they are say 98 % maybe 99% from factory. Even to shoot them some risks scratches and dings and wear and tear. They are old guns and finding condition as these is rare. So there is a art aspect and a historical aspect as well.

I always have the choice to shoot them or sell them anyway. For now I'll admire them and post so fellow mil-surp enthusiasts can also. Like I said I have other Mauser Argentine, other Garand and carbine that I shoot.

Click to expand...

Even if I do not plan to shoot them often, I like all my guns to function. It bothers me if they don’t. Each collectible one does get out once a year. Otherwise I could save a bunch of money buying demilled drill rifles. For example: I have a No.4 mk I (T) and a WWI Sht LE. I love those guns. I’ve even gone to the extent to buy an ishapore Enfield as a shooter when I feel like really putting lead down range with a Lee.

lionking said:

I knew when I started this thread there would be two types of thought, those that believe a gun is worthless (to them) if not shot and those that believe in collecting also.

Understand that through decades of aquiring guns, I had always intended to shoot them. However the ones I posted especially the pair of Mauser and FN 49 I can't find a scratch or ding on them they are say 98 % maybe 99% from factory. Even to shoot them some risks scratches and dings and wear and tear. They are old guns and finding condition as these is rare. So there is a art aspect and a historical aspect as well.

I always have the choice to shoot them or sell them anyway. For now I'll admire them and post so fellow mil-surp enthusiasts can also. Like I said I have other Mauser Argentine, other Garand and carbine that I shoot.

Click to expand...

You have an amazing collection, in as perfect condition as as surplus can get. I love mil-surp, but mine is more, well....drug behind a truck much? I had to compliment you on your collection. Museum quality, have fun with them.

Documented Type II National Match Garand , going to be a safe queen as long as I am the caretaker

I own several unfired pre 64 model 70’s, they will remain in that condition. I have several others that are shooters, those will be fired. You can only be a virgin til u aint

Jessesky said:

Even if I do not plan to shoot them often, I like all my guns to function. It bothers me if they don’t. Each collectible one does get out once a year. Otherwise I could save a bunch of money buying demilled drill rifles. For example: I have a No.4 mk I (T) and a WWI Sht LE. I love those guns. I’ve even gone to the extent to buy an ishapore Enfield as a shooter when I feel like really putting lead down range with a Lee.

Click to expand...

I will say that I wont keep even a safe queen if it is:

1)inoperable
2)chambered for an unobtanium cartridge
3)unreliable

Hence my Enfield is a .410, and my Mauser is a .308.

When you get old, your “age status” will work on your mind to experience shooting your safe queens. Early on, you rationalize preserving their pristine condition for value and/ or the ownership of “the perfect”. Then that need for perfect wears away to wanting the experience to take to your grave. Owning the perfect at your time of death then becomes meaningless.
I no longer have any queens - all have been shot, experienced and enjoyed. Other that action “rubbing”, they still remain pristine.
They are just things and time eventually convinces everyone that things never were that important. I would shoot them - nothing like the initial rush and then anticlimax of violating a safe queen. After that “violation”, then they become what they really are, just a thing to be enjoyed as a thing.

Outstanding close-ups and overall artistic composition. Thanks for inviting us into your armory !

tark said:

The aforementioned Garand man has one of those, too. He let me hold it, but I was threatened with a closed casket funeral if I cocked that hammer.

Click to expand...

One would have pull the op-rod back to cock a Garand.
I have owned firearms that I was told were 'Too valuable to shoot' They got sold to the highest bidder shortly after.
Yes there are some firearms in my safe that do not get proper exercise.

It is a pretty interesting discussion....I hope it does not get locked, this is interesting to me.

Being a guy that has about 99% of his stuff being "old stuff" I can see both points......to a point. Guns can be a little different then about every other mechanical item. Is SN#1 garand special....yell you bet, is an unissued....really unissued grand 1,000,000 in the same ball park.....nope. But that does not mean at this stage the "perfect normal garand" should not be kept "perfect". There are tons of others of the same type out there.

A while ago we had a thread on an enfield still in the wrapper, don't unwrap it is what is generally suggested.....but some say unwrap and shoot it......well that is not what is wise to do. If you don't want a special item like that, and are the person that will destroy....and yes destroy is the correct word, its value, then you are not the kind of person to be taking care of that item.

Then the other side of the coin is a person like Jay Leno....he drives his turbine car....the only running example in private hands.....it is not going to reduce the value of that car....but he is not out there power braking it and doing doughnuts in parking lots with it.....

I have always said it really depends on the item we are talking about.....guns are a bit different, and "unfired" does add quite a bit to its value....as does paperwork.

NIGHTLORD40K said:

I will say that I wont keep even a safe queen if it is:

1)inoperable
2)chambered for an unobtanium cartridge
3)unreliable

Hence my Enfield is a .410, and my Mauser is a .308.

Click to expand...

This statement is a bit odd, 303 and 8mm is by no where near an unobtanium cartridge in my book.....so perhaps to some people if you can't get it at walmart it is to go. I have yet to find a cartridge that I can't make go bang. Some may take a bit of work..... 351 WSL anyone.....and if one guy finds 303 difficult there is nothing wrong with selling that and moving on.

Where I do have an issue is if someone is changing over an old XXX to something "easy to find for".....this is where I really get on my soap box.....there is no reason on gods green earth to modify anything vintage to use a modern cartridge......only exception I can think of is some of the old rim fire cartridges.....and then only if the gun has zero collector value.

My safe queens are mostly unfinished projects, which I've recently been focused on either completing or selling off.

I don't collect or invest in firearms in the classical sense. I buy things that I want to shoot or which strike my fancy when they show up at one of my usual gunshop haunts. Everything I own has been shot by me at least once -- except my Savage 99, which hasn't made it to the range yet. I since I mainly use a short indoor range these days, the high-powered stuff tends to sit in the safe for long periods between shooting sessions.

I have a rolling inventory of safe queens. These are mostly guns that I haven't got around to shoot yet or haven't shot since the last update or modification... yet.
Their time will come again.

All mine get shot in rotation.