Milsurp Collecting

[Sisco]

Got this funny idea in my head to start collecting milsurp rifles. C&R application is on the desk waiting to be filled out.

All I have now is an Inland M1 Carbine and a Turk Mauser. I don't intend to own one of each variant ever made, more like one of each that our forces and opposing forces used from WW1 to present.
Here's a quick list of what I think I need:

1903A3
M1Garand (CMP application lying on the desk too)
German Mauser instead of the Turk - (maybe one of the Mitchells Mausers?)
Enfield
AK 47
SKS
AR-15. I don't want a "modern" AR, I want one that closely resembles the original ones from the Vietnam era.

Any suggestions?

 

[Cosmoline]

Curio rifles are a whole new universe. The standard American rifles such as the Garand and Springfield 1903 tend to be by far the most expensive. There's a booming collector's market in these, and frankly much of what you pay for (esp with old Springfields) is the name and myth. The best deals on American iron are still Eddystone Enfields, though those prices are going up and up.

The best deals, and the most interesting rifles, are off the beaten path. Non-European Mausers from South America, Persia and the like are fascinating, and still fairly affordable. Finnish Mosin Nagants are amazingly inexpensive, and the pre M-39 models were per capita about the most used rifles in any war as far as I know. There's actually a fair chance a random pre-M39 Finn saw front line, life-and-death combat during the Winter War. And you can get that for under $200! The Schmidt-Rubin K-31's and 1911's are for the money the best rifles on the planet today. For about $100 you can get a K-31 that will actually outshoot your average $700 Remchester. I urge everyone with a C&R license to grab one of these.

That said, I do admire those with a rack of intact American war rifles from the Krag to the Garand. After that the C&R license won't help you much--you need a Class III stamp.

Another option is to restore bubba'd rifles. You can get a hacked up Springfield for pretty cheap. If you get one with an intact barrel and sights, you can scrounge up a military stock, whatever additional parts are needed and restore it. That won't make the value go up very much (it will still be a "parts rifle", but it will be a nice collection piece.

 

[jeff-10]

I have asked about a Vietnam era style AR-15 before on this board and it was pretty much you will have to make your own. Seems like with all the AR makers out there one could make it in that configuration.

 

[Sisco]

Forgot Jap rifles, which model would be most representative of what was used in WWII?

 

[Kodiak AK]

Type 38

I don't see a Krag or springfeild on the list either .


For the AR look for a slab side SP1 . They will be pricey , but can still be had under a grand if you look around . Other wise building your own would be the way to go . I would avoid the mitchel for a collector .Don't forgett the M1 carbine either.

 

[ocabj]

Other's not on your list:

Mosin Nagant variants: M91/30, M91/59, M38, M44, M39 (there maybe a few more)
Swiss K-31
Yugo Mauser variants: M48, M48A, 24/47, 24/52c
Czech Mauser variants: VZ24, 98/22
FN49
Tokarev SVT

 

[iamkris]

Swiss K31
Mauser 98K (BTW -- Mitchell Mausers are Yugo M48s, not German rifles...the ads are a little misleading)
Yugo M48
24/47
Yugo SKS
Russian SKS
Chinese SKS
1873 Trapdoor
1898 Krag
M1 Garand
Springfield 1903
Springfield 1903A3
Enfield 1917
M14
M/N 91/30
M/N M38
M/N M44
Fin M39
Carcano
Ariska's (a whole slew of them)
Enfield P14
SMLE No 1 Mk III
SMLE No 4 Mk I
AKs...where to begin? Russian, Chinese, Bulgarian, Romanian, RPK, Dragonovs, etc
Steyr M38

And I know I'm missing a lot of other interesting ones

 

[geojap]

milsurp collecting is just too enjoyable. i've been doing it for just over 2 years and i love it. do stay away from mitchell's mausers. they are just a marketing gimmick and the same m-48 yugo cane be had for $100 - 175 elsewhere.

get your c&r and start reading the different c&r forums. good luck!

 

[DMK]

AR-15. I don't want a "modern" AR, I want one that closely resembles the original ones from the Vietnam era.

Although certainly not C&R eligable, a "pre-ban" Colt SP1 with a lightweight barrel is very close to the Vietnam era "M16A1. If you visit the Equipment Exchange (AKA: The EE) on www.ar15.com you could probably pick up all the parts to build one if you are patient.

If you wish to buy new, Fulton Armory has a very nice looking "Vietnam era M16A1" clone AR15. Pick up one late Sept. and you can get it with the flash suppressor and bayo lug to add to the proper look. Of course, only 20 round mags would be appropriate to use with the Fulton or the Colt SP1.

http://www.fulton-armory.com/GEN_II.htm#LegacyRifle

 

[MrMurphy]

I think Century Arms? Or maybe it was one of the other AR crowd, has some rebuilt AR15s, basically new lower reciever and old upper with M16A1 type grips, sights, etc..... from overseas or wherever, and they cost quite a bit less than a new one, and look identical to a Vietnam era M16A1.

 

[DMK]

I think Century Arms? Or maybe it was one of the other AR crowd, has some rebuilt AR15s, basically new lower reciever and old upper with M16A1 type grips, sights, etc..... from overseas or wherever, and they cost quite a bit less than a new one, and look identical to a Vietnam era M16A1.

I believe you're referring to SARCO. IIRC, they were selling M16A1 parts kits(minus the lower reciever and NFA items) and stripped "Mega" brand AR-15 lowers).

I've only bought from them once and didn't have a problem, but if you can believe the chatter on the 'net a lot of guys got screwed by SARCO on the M16 parts kits. They were either worn out, SARCO wouldn't honor the advertised price or they just wouldn't deliver. Of course, maybe it's just the few that had problems that were the most vocal.

 

[Roadkill]

I started out with rifles:

1918 03
1917 Eddystone
1944 M1 Carbine - Inland
1944 Garand- Springfield
1944 03A3 Remington

Once I got the US I went Allies:

1915 SMLE
1944 MKIV
1917 St Entienne
1938 MAS 36
1917 Remington Nagant
1945 Mod 44

Next was Axis:

1917 Erfurt Gew 98
1944 Mauser 98K
1916 Mod 91 Terni
1944 Mod 35 Beretta
Type 99 Early
Type 99 Last ditch

Then I got pistols:

1944 Remington 1911A1
1917 MKVI
1944 MKIV
1951 Tokarev type 33( couldn't find a war gun)
1918 Erfurt Luger
1937 Mauser Luger
1944 Browning High Power
1943 Radom
1943 Browning Mod 22
1939 Nambu

(I'm still looking for French & Italian pistols)

Then I got helmets:

US WWI
US WWII
German WWI
German WWII
French WWII
Italian WWII
Japanese WWII
Russian WWII
British WWI/II

Then came bayonets, holsters, combat knives, canteens, slings for the rifles, web gear, cartridge boxes, ammo belts, ect.

My point is to set a specific area and keep to it. I didn't and its really got out of hand. I also have VC/NVA complete gear (SKS I brought back from Cambodia) and US from Vietnam (Mod 37 Ithaca 12 ga) including a body bag. I've been at it about 15 years and am adding to it all the time.

rk

 

[Bainx]

Your timing is great because AIM and others have batches of Enfields available currently.


Roadkill, you could probably qualify as a museum!
Most impressive.

 

[jrhead75]

When you send in your C&R app, throw away your list, for it will be useless to you. I had one just like it until my C&R FFL showed up.

Now my list looks like:

11 various Enfields: 4 No1MkIIIs, 3 No4Mk1s, 1 No4Mk2, 3 No5Mk1s (I like Enfields)

4 Mausers: 1 Yugo, 1 Czech, 1 Spaniard, 1 German RC K98k

1 Mosin Nagant 91/30, waiting for a better one to show up at Big5.

1 Yugo SKS

1 Swiss K-31 (got to have one of these...period)

-and-

1 five digit Springfield (1939) M1 Garand is on it's way, even as we speak. REALLY looking forward to that one!

-and finally-

1 empty checkbook, complete with one REALLY angry wife...


Good luck!

 

[critter]

DON'T EVER BUY ONE OF 'EM! If you do, you will be just like Roadkill and me. You can NEVER find enough of them! It is an addictive habit just as bad as crack and just about as expensive. Then you have to find a place to keep them. Then ammo. Then 'extras', slings, bayonets, cleaning tools, oilers, cases, uniforms, --- SEE?

Then you have to learn all the history connected with them! NO end!

But--What a ride!

 

[Sam Adams]

Cosmoline

"For about $100 you can get a K-31 that will actually outshoot your average $700 Remchester. I urge everyone with a C&R license to grab one of these."

I've heard that the K-31s are quite accurate, but are they really THAT good? What is your experience? Also, do you roll your own or simply use the Swiss surplus 7.5mm? If you roll your own, what load do you use?

 

[444]

"I've heard that the K-31s are quite accurate, but are they really THAT good? "

Yes, they are. I see these milsurp rifles as historical items and keep them in, as issued condition. But, I was really curious about the K31 and my M39 Finn. So, I bought scout scope mounts from a guy on another board. The scope mount replaced the rear sight and did not require any permenent modificaiton to the rifle. I then mounted a Leupold scout scope which I already had on a lever gun. My K31 shot a group that was about half the size of my Winchesters, Remingtons, or Rugers. The M39 shot a group comparable to the K31 for about 4-5 rounds but then started to climb as the barrel heated up.

I have a couple dozen various milsurp rifles, but my real interest is the American rifles.
I have a 1903, a 1903A3, a 1917, an M1 carbine, and an M1 Garand. I also have an M1A which is not really a milsurp rifle, but close. I have several more on the way. The Americans are much more expensive than the others, but to me they are well worth it. I don't see a whole lot of the American rifles that have been badly mistreated. And the sights graduations actually correspond to the indicated range. They are built to be shot with a real shooting sling. They fire a cartridge that is common in the US and is avialable from pretty much anyone that produces loaded ammo and is readily available as milsurp.
I competed in a match today with my '03A3. I competed in a match last weekend with my M1. Next weekend I am going to a big match in Utah and am going to take all my Americans.

 

[WhoKnowsWho]

You guys are killing me.

I am calling the C&R office on Monday to check on my application. I sent it in the end of April...

 

[SapperLeader]

WhoKnowsWho, keep your hopes up! I sent my application in the third week of april, and on friday got two interesting packages. First my package of books arrived and had me jumping up and down. Then to my surprise, I checked the mailbox and the license itself had actually arrived! So it took the ATF 10 weeks to process my application and send me my license. Now if I only had money to take adavantage of my c&r. Oh well, Guess Ill wait a few more weeks.

 

[telewinz]

Of course you need to get the most POWERFUL milsurp semiauto on the range...

The Hakim firing Turkish 8mm Mauser ammo! All my other milsurps have been getting a long rest since I got my Hakim! And at less than .04 a round, it only gets better. And NO I haven't had any blow-ups since my gas port valve is properly ajusted.

 

[WhoKnowsWho]

The Hakim firing Turkish 8mm Mauser ammo!

So where can you find these things for a non sky high price?

 

[ocabj]

www.jgsales.com sells Turkish 8mm for $29.89 per 700 rounds. Some people have had neck split and other issues with Turkish 8mm from the 30's and early 40's. I bought some from J&G Sales which is headstamped 1948, and I've had no problems with them in my VZ24.