RCBS .223 Small Base die set

Does not sound like the die is the problem but the person using it.

read the instructions that came with the dies. rcbs dies work just fine for me.

luck,

murf

Never had any problem with rcbs seaters, use a good chamfer on the brass and guide the bullet in with your fingers like any other seater. After seating then the brass 180 and seat again this will insure the bullet is true.

I use almost exclusively RCBS dies. Have also used Hornady and Lee. Honestly never had any real issues with any of them. I have broken decapping pins on RCBS a few times, but, they are cheap and easy to replace. Anytime I have shaved bullets it has been because the cases were not prepped properly. If you don't like RCBS don't use them. However ,they have been in business a long time and probably know what they are doing. The dies may have an issue, but, probably not. There was a learning curve with my first set if Hornady dies. The just adjust a bit different. I have only been loading for 43 years so may not have enough experience to comment on this.

FB bullets require a bit of chamfer in the mouth to start, and ALL bullets require a chamfer to avoid shaving. Not the die's fault.

Also, you'll be wearing out the brass pretty quickly with the SB sizer.

Lee Q. Loader said:

No micro adjust for seating depth, you just have to keep moving the entire die!

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Do not move the seat die after its set correctly. To adjust bullet seating depth/COL, adjust the seater plug.

Lee Q. Loader said:

Many times there are copper shavings after the bullet is seated.

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Chamfer the case mouth case. To much crimp may leave brass shavings. Screwing the sear die in & out will move when the die crimps. NO CRIMP IS NEEDED, even for an auto.

Lee Q. Loader said:

There's too much room for the bullet to get out of whack before you hit the end of the die where the seater is.

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Trim brass to all the same length. Set seat die with empty case in raised ram/shell holder. Slowly screw die down till the roll crimp ring built into the die touches the case mouth. Lock die in press.
COL is adjusted by the seat stem plug only.

Mixed brass of different trim lengths will require the crimp ring backed off the case mouth by about .005" to .010" to avoid over crimping brass with a long trim length. Or find the case in the lot that has the longest trim length. Set roll crimp ring to "lightly touch" the case mouth. A tape crimp seating die is different. Follow die instrucfions.

Hold bullet with fingers while seating the flat base bullets. Not so much with boatails.

I have two 223 RCBS die sets. Very old & a newer one. The work fine. But its possible to get a bad one.

Lee Q. Loader said:

He broke the decapping pin after sizing about 80 cases, it has no ability to float a bit to adjust for off center flash holes.

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Off center flash holes are a brass problem, not a die problem. Floating pin? New to me?

Make sure the decapping unit is not adjusted to far down.

With the decap pin in the flash hole , loosen the unit nut and let the pin find its own center, then retighten nut.

Note that 223/5.56 have 2 different sizes of flash hole. (Military calls it a spit hole).
The small may cause problens. New parts are available.. I keep extra pins, just in case.

I used an RCBS 223 small base die till it rusted out and I replaced it with a Lyman small base. Never had a problem with either. Bullet base shaving will be greatly reduced by increasing the bevel on the case mouth to a knife edge. And by lubricating the bullets so they slide in the case neck without resistance.

I like my Bonaza benchrest seating die, because it is so easy to adjust, but I cannot say that ammunition loaded with it is any more accurate than when seating the bullet with the standard seating die.

Floating pin? New to me?

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Bonaza makes a sizing die where the spindle is more or less loose in the die.It has a lot of side to side motion. It is also very weak and after breaking enough of them, I replaced my Bonaza decapping spindles with RCBS spindles. And then I gave the dies away because they were not small base. Kept the bullet seating dies.

Lee Q. Loader said:

I've never loaded .223. A friend wanted my help getting started.
He bought the .223 RCBS small base dies to load for his AR. I don't know how to put this mildly so I'll just say that I have never seen such horrible dies.
The seater die has no floating sleeve so you just have to get lucky and hope the bullet stays straight, which in this case almost never happens because he's loading flat base bullets. He ends up damaging the lead soft point on about half the bullets. No micro adjust for seating depth, you just have to keep moving the entire die! Many times there are copper shavings after the bullet is seated.
He broke the decapping pin after sizing about 80 cases, it has no ability to float a bit to adjust for off center flash holes.
If you have any suggestions on how to make these work better I'd greatly appreciate it.
The only suggestion I have for him at this point is to scrap those dies and get some good ones!
I know the Lee dies are much better and about the same price!

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Not everybody starts out with or needs top-of-the-line stuff like you obviously have. I have the exact same die set, and load perfectly good ammo with it. Yes, the decapping pin can float, just don't crank the cap holding it in all the way tight.
This is a case of Operator headspace and timing, which sounds like YOUR FAULT for not teaching him correctly. 243winxb has the correct procedures in post #9.

243winxb said:

(Military calls it a spit hole).

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Not the one I was in. Even the ATMU guys who handloaded match ammo called it a flash hole.

No micro adjust for seating depth, you just have to keep moving the entire die!

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You can adjust any die with precision, despite not paying an extra $50 ea for the feature.

Lee Q. Loader said:

The question for the seater die remains: How can you seat flat based bullets with this die? There's too much room for the bullet to get out of whack before you hit the end of the die where the seater is.

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Depends on a couple factors. Do you have a photo of a case mouth and die at present settings.

Flat base bullets are going to need a little more chamfer than a BT but you can likely get away with less than a FB cast bullet will need.

The seating arbor is machined right into the end of the threaded stem on the RCBS SB 223 die set. If you moved the stem a lot vs adjusting the die, you might have it “out of wack” with the internal shape so it’s causing your problem.

If you have the die too high and just lower the stem, you lower it below the radius inside and will have nothing but problems.



If you have the die too low and raised the stem too far up you could also have problems.



If you have everything in the right spot and a decent chamfer on the inside of the case mouth, you shouldn’t have any problems.



FWIW if you wanted a floating and micrometer seat die you just bought the wrong RCBS die as they sell them too.

https://precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!l=RC&i=11149

Also if you want the decap pin to be able to move a small amount back off the knurled knob at the top, if it’s not completely tight, it can move. Another reason you might want to do this is, if doing so, reduces runout caused by the expander being pulled back through the neck.

Teach him not to force things to the point of breaking something, a good case lube helps with this and you might think about having him learn the basics on something really easy like 38/357, 45 ACP and such and move on to bottle neck rifle cases once he is comfortable.

You got a lot of really good information in this thread.....I wish such a info was as easy to get when I started loading nearly 50 years ago.

Small-based dies are still argued over though. Here's my take over these:
RCBS makes them for lever action, and autoloaders. Can you get by with regular dies? Most often yes, but in some cases no. I have one of the rare rifles that need them. First round in a magazine fires, the next one autoloaded won't always chamber and lock. Bad reload? No minimum chamber. Even Federal blue boxes wouldn't always go into battery.

Here's the rub.....since most rifles don't have such minimum chambers (done for accuracy) then most don't have that problem with regular dies. But...... If you reload thousands and you want to shoot them in "any" rifle chambered for that caliber.....or.....maybe you plan to replace the rifle you have, then the small-base may save you a lot of grief. I believe in being prepared.

Mind you, small-base dies don't size bases back to factory, but they do size skinnier than regular dies.....just enough to handle smallish chambers....I haven't noticed any brass degradation or longevity problems other than that my rough brass handling AR's cause all by themselves.

I'd rather have reloads any rifle can shoot rather than just what my present one will shoot.....especially for ammo saved for the future.

Oh, I forget to mention, that all Dillon rifle sets for bottle necked brass are small-based, they just don't advertise that.....ask them.

A Berdan primed case will break a decapping pin almost every time.

You can use a l small drill bit to chamfer the inside of the flash hole to help the pin guide in beter, but use the above mentioned setup.

I should have let the frustration subside before posting!

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Better than keeping on loading after one becomes frustrated.

I bought an RCBS small base resizing die to reload for my AR to help with cycling which it did. I have resized and de-primed thousands of cases with this die and have never broken the pin. If I am feeling resistance then I back off and try to determine what the issue is.

First, I prefer to use small base sizing dies for cases used in AR-15 rifles. Just a touch of insurance that one will not have feeding problems. At least in my AR-15s, cases become unusable for other reasons before the body fails near the base from small base sizing.

But I recommend the following for die choice for sizing for AR-15 and other semi-auto rifles. If you never use cases fired in another rifle, standard sizing dies will work just fine. If you plan to be thrifty and use purchased once fired cases or cases collected from the range, size them with a small base sizing die.

There is enough variability in chamber sizing that one can run into chambering problems with certain combinations of chambers, cases and sizing dies.

I only have 1 SB die (RCBS X die, 308W) and I actually did not need it to get the brass to fit, my std set worked. All my AR's have a min spec match chamber, and adjustable gas blocks. My std dies have always sized the brass down to fit and can over size (push the shoulder back) too far if cranked down. I've sized , 223R/556, 224V, 308W, 224V, 30-06 all with std dies. All these are simi-auto guns. I have yet to find a caliber that I could not get properly sized with std dies. I should add that I anneal my brass now every cycle, but this did not happen till 3 yrs ago. Never had a problem.

When I started hand loading in the late early 70's every one said that you needed SB dies for BAR. Never did need them. I will say the lube you use can make a difference in how your brass gets sized.

Lee Q. Loader said:

Which chamfer tool do you guys prefer?

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l.e. wilson

murf

I use the Redding piloted tool for boat tail bullets and the LE Wilson for flat base.

https://www.redding-reloading.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&Itemid=15&id=194%3Aprecision-inside-chamfering-tool

I prefer to use a Dillon trimmer and boat tail bullets so I don’t have to do any extra work. When I have to I use Lyman cutters. If it’s just a couple I use a pair of threaded ones with a section of 3/4” stainless rod I made.

If I have more than I feel like twisting, I have another pair that fit in powered 1/4” drives.