What Do You Do?

As one of my trainers - all those years ago said... "Oh well - some folks just have to learn the hard way..." I was taught to respond very harshly to anyone offering a threat my way - particularly an armed threat.... In my experience though 9 out of 10 encounters that had my alarm bells going off - turned out to be completely harmless - it's that one out of ten encounter that will keep you up at night....

I cant relate to your situation. I know you are saying to try and relate it to a civil SD situation but there simply wouldnt be one in my case, for the most part.

I am not out after dark. That's number 1. I dont know in what situation I would be approached by an unknown vehicle in daylight that seemed extremely suspicious as I dont frequent areas where that would even be an issue. Thats number 2.

I suppose if I was in a broad daylight situation of a suspicious car approaching I'd try and extricate myself from the situation, an option you as a SG dont have.

You are disposable.
Plain and simple you cannot always do what you are supposed to without losing.

If you are required to approach vehicles and address the driver from a close distance but will be fired for even drawing a gun on someone that has a gun out then you are being asked to lose the gun fight.
Staying at a distance or with some cover to react is the smart option, but often you are tasked with going to the driver and checking on their credentials or paperwork, which means you have to give up cover often before you are even close enough to recognize the danger, like a gun on the seat.

It worked out in this situation, and would have been a much worse situation for you had you been more aggressive. However if it had been a thug claiming to be a cop, which is quite common when trying to go someplace or do something with less harassment, you would have simply let him pick up that gun and start shooting before you could clear leather if they were so inclined.

But this is nothing new, being a cop is hard enough, but being armed security is even worse. Police departments and fellow officers at least back you up or stick by your side in legal situations and create ROE that is a compromise of the law and what keeps you safe, so you have something to face the harsh world with if something serious happens. The average citizen also respects the authority of an officer more and harasses and questions them less.
The company hiring the security cares more about avoiding a lawsuit than even providing effective security. And often hires you merely as a deterrent not expected to actually protect from threats, and so gives you rules of engagement that minimize lawsuits but are not realistic for enforcing effective security while minimizing risk to yourself. Facing an armed threat intent on either harming you or even subduing you for robbery they will almost always get the drop on you if you are following the rules.

You are essentially an alarm. You approach all threats and put yourself at risk instead of others increasing the liklihood that a threat will target you first, and when you go down everyone knows there is a problem. In less serious encounters you phone in law enforcement while being the one at risk. That is what you are hired to be, deterrent that phones in law enforcement.
You are disposable, and expected to be disposed of in the case of something serious.
Most employers do not even use armed security for the same reason concealed carry is generally banned for all employees, because they care less for replacable employees than the money they will lose in lawsuits their employees may cost them with a gun. They can hire a new security guard next week, but if you cost them money they will be feeling that pain awhile.
Far more security also die every year in the US than police officers in the scope of their employment. Even though more police officers are probably in dangerous situations. The police are trained and allowed to act in a way that gives them a better chance of survival because they are not run by corporate lawyers.

trunk money wrote:
"...he responds 'Oh F off, I'm a cop.'"

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My response is, "Until I see some I.D. you're nothing but a violator of this perimeter. Lose the attitude and show me your badge".

That said the point of this thread is what if he hadn't been a cop? there really was a gun sitting on the seat of his car. What if he'd come up with that instead of a badge?

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That’s why I said, sounds like you did as good as you could have, depending on where you were relative to the drivers window. Your position being about the only thing in your control at that point.

You can’t “draw down” on everything, just put yourself into the best position you can. If your asking what to do if someone draws a gun on you, maybe some training is in order.

Trunk Monkey said:

You do understand that he was in fact a cop right?

The truth is that he had all the authority in this situation.

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Curious as to what authority you think he has to come onto your property? Unless he is in a chase situation, or it's public property, he has none without permission.

All you got are your instincts. Is he a cop? Is he a criminal? It’s not scientific but what is.

I did armed security on a military base for seven years. We worked the main gate instead of Security Forces (MPs) because it was cheaper overall. Cops visited the base for all sorts of reasons, some legit (cross training) and some personal (visiting a friend, shopping at the BX). In all cases, Security Forces needed to know who was armed other than them for obvious reasons, meaning the cop couldn't continue onto the base until cleared by the shift super.

When told they needed to produce ID and wait for SecFo to come talk to them, most cops got rather upset. I didn't understand the attitude; you're trying to access a military facility where you don't have jurisdiction, sorry you have to jump through a hoop but your badge isn't an all-access magic wand. A minority of the cops were cool with this, but most objected.

One time while on third shift, a state trooper showed up at 0200 and asked to "look around." I told him we already had people patrolling the base. The shift supervisor declined to admit him. You'd think we had just insulted his mother. Anyway, I considered myself fortunate that I always had backup. Trunk Monkey, I have been in your shoes doing unarmed security and hated it. If my post orders had required me to make contact with people in vehicles I wouldn't have lasted long in that role.

Different bases have different SOPs. I believe Colorado is one of the few states where the Adjutant General declared that anyone, servicemembers included, could carry if they had the proper state credentials. Our base is one where they've always preferred to have a monopoly of force.

speaking as a former cop. I would have gotten his information and reported him, This attitude is both dangerous and corrosive of public confidence/

Trunk Monkey said:

That you know of ..



Yeah, not so much.

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Usually on Devil's night, they burnt stuff down in the inner city. As I only lived there for 2 years before I headed back South; I don't know much about it or if they still do. Apparently, it has stopped:
https://www.metrotimes.com/detroit/...sappear-on-halloween-eve/Content?oid=23012915

Too many firearms laws there for me; so I voted with my feet.

As I moved to western NC in 2004, my info about Shearon Harris is dated. At the time, it was two weeks on and two off.