What would you do?

[mr_blove]

I went to work today and a coworker told me of his CCP incident last night:


It was about 9pm ish and he went to a convience store while still in uniform(army) as he was exiting 3 young gangbangers walked in all billy bad a$$ like and he took notice that the last one was holding a handgun behind his back, he went to his jeep and grabed his handgun and walked back in, 2 were at the counter and the 3rd was at the drink machine. He ordered them to raise their hands and the one holding the guns put it in his pants and complied with the order. The 3rd started to approach and he commanded him to stop or he would shoot. He then commanded them to move over to the wall and keep their hands in sight. Within a minute or so multiple LEO's arrived, entered, and moved around him and took custody of the suspects and searched them and found handguns on all three of them, at which point the LEO's motioned him outside, he holstered his sidearm and showed his CCP and anwsered questions and left. The suspects were 18 and 19 years of age. The suspect told the LEO's he was just holstering the gun as he was entering.


With that said what would you do? I know there is a huge liability if they weren't underage and truely holsterring their firearm. Me personally I think I would enter my car and call 911 and watch what happened until something actually happened at which point I would take action.

Enlighten me to all possible scenarios and legal situations that you can run through.

 

[chrlefxtrt]

His timing was exquisite. If he took any longer there could have been a shoot out. That being said, I think he did the right thing. Before I got my reserve commision I honestly don't know what I would have done. It all would depend on body language and stride of the individuals entering, and if I thought the cashier's life was in mortal danger (they could have been gang bangers just stopping in for a coke). Gang bangers rarely use holsters like law abiding citizens and LEO do. This is a big warning sign in my mind. I wonder if the guy at the fountain was a lookout, because he didn't do a very good job.

Now I would not have to go back out to my car ( I always holstered my pistol in the parking lot of the armory after drill BTW). My Sheriff gives his reserve deputies the same off duty powers of a full time deputy (soon to be one hopefully).So now I would put all three of them face down on the ground until an on duty officer arrived.

All in all I think what he did was right and noble. He could have just stayed in the car and dialed 911. I noticed a lot of behavior like this when I was uniform since selfless humble people usually are the ones in uniform. Pat your friend on the back for me and tell him thanks for serving.

 

[chrlefxtrt]

I don't think there would be any legal angles for me to worry about in Oklahoma because the one fella was brandishing his by the mere fact of me seeing it and here that is a crime (so even if he was legal your friend would have been ok here). Besides you just KNOW when someone is up to no good. Their behavior is just "off". If you follow your gut you are usually safe.

As a civilian I would have made them sit Indian style with their hands on their knees and told them to keep quiet.

 

[mr_blove]

Don't get me wrong I would not stand by waiting for LEO's I would take action if needed but I dont need to go in guns blazing and end up in court defending my freedom, financial security, and right to keep and bare arms. I will be sure to give him your support.


BTW we are full time National Guard tech's, I wear the uniform also.

 

[chrlefxtrt]

BTW we are full time National Guard tech's, I wear the uniform also.

See what I mean (i.e. you). Thank you for serving as well.
If I hadn't torn my rotator cuff I would have been back in by now. Fractured vertebrae, herniated disc lead to discharge, and the shoulder kept me from getting back in. I wonder if God has other plans for me b/c it's kind of ridonculous.

 

[mr_blove]

It happens, you gotta do what is meant for you.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

I would probably have done the same thing, though I reholster my weapon in the parking lot every time I leave my Company HQ.

 

[chrlefxtrt]

It is crazy how many people think that you can't even have a gun in the parking lot (your POV) at drill. Unless you take your POV into the motor pool for some reason you are in the clear. The parking lot is considered right of way. I hate having to ponder about "if i only had my gun". More people really should become reserve deputies in rural areas. You have a surprising amount of privelage for doing so. Like I said I am a reserve waiting for a full time spot. I can carry just like an off duty ful time (concealed with badge) into many restricted places. About the only place I might ask first is the Federal building and unless official they would most likely say no. It is nice not having to leave my pistol in my Wrangler when I go to the bank, or at a football game.

Sorry for hi-jacking the thread

 

[Titan6]

What would you do?

Depends upon where I was. In an open carry state that might have been considered a crime. What were they suspected of?

 

[mr_blove]

I dont know what they were charged and I am no lawyer with but I would suspect possession of a handgun by a minor, I would also suspect thet becausse they didn't actually draw down on the clerk and demand money(yet) they probally wouldn't get charged with robbery but again I am not a lawyer.

 

[TallPine]

More people really should become reserve deputies in rural areas.

I actually considered that, but rejected for the following reasons:

a) my age
b) the war on drugs
c) the fact that I have little respect/confidence in the current sheriff of the county where I actually reside (2 miles from the county line)

I wonder ... can you become a reserve in a neighboring county ???

 

[csaws]

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't you say they were 18 and 19? If so they aren't minors.

 

[ojibweindian]

They aren't minors, but they were almost certainly not supposed to be in possession of a hand gun. Think you must be at least 21.

 

[mr_blove]

That is correct you must be 21 to have a handgun.

 

[chrlefxtrt]

I wonder ... can you become a reserve in a neighboring county ???

In Oklahoma you can be a reserve deputy where ever you want. My dad lives in Oklahoma County and is looking at the surrounding counties to possibly join as a reserve because the OK county sheriff doesn't give his reserves the same authority as say Pottowatomie county where I live (he just turned 60 BTW). I think you are limited to one reserve commision at a time that's all, but in OK it is good state wide.

Tallpine: I'm not a fan of b) either, but in OK where crank and Oxy's are so bad (coke is on it's way back to thanks to MS13) I see it as a neccessary evil. I would be lenient on a someone in possession of a non dangerous smoking substance (most of it here is home grown it's like our #3 cash crop I think) or similar. If more understanding and compassionate people go into law enforcement there wouldn't be the stigma of all of us being bullies (which in reality there are few). Check into it I bet there is a nearby county just waiting for you to appply no matter how old you are (we have one that is 65 [very spry] still on patrol).

 

[chrlefxtrt]

double post

 

[old4x4]

I'm glad he wasn't injured or worse, but I think that going back in was his mistake (unfortunately, from a legal perspective). He should have called 911 right there and then, got a vehicle description, if any, perp description, etc. Not sure how the law would've looked upon him if he had to shoot.
I was under the impression that you had to remove yourself from the threat 1st and foremost, if possible....

 

[WayneConrad]

Three birds in the hand beats one speculation in the bush.

 

[Ske1etor]

Regardless of the legal repercussions I feel that he did the RIGHT thing.

Notice that the OP stated that the "the one holding the guns put it in his pants and complied with the order" This means that the guy was still holding the firearm in his hand when he returned to the store.

That means that he surely was not holstering his firearm upon entry to the store. If so, the firearm wouldn't have been put into his "Pants" upon being ordered down.

Secondly, I would assume that holstering a weapon while entering a place of business is considered brandishing regardless of open carry laws or not.

Third, they are underage to be carrying a handgun.

 

[mekender]

That is correct you must be 21 to have a handgun.

nope, you must be 21 to buy a handgun... you are legally allowed (at the federal level) to acquire one by means of gift or inheritance... state law may vary...

 

[Sholiz]

I bought my first handgun the day I turned 18, a used Kimber 1911. At 18 years old you can own a handgun (inherited, bought, gift). Federal law, however, limits the purchase of new handguns to individuals 21 and over.

Catch of it is ... at 18, yes you can own a handgun, but try buying ammo for it!

 

[woad_yurt]

Since it worked out perfectly, I'd say he did well for himself. It's hard to argue with results.

 

[mr_blove]

OLD4X4 I will have to double check my laws but in Utah you are not required to leave the area, although it may be a reccomendation.

 

[tepin]

called 911 and seek cover until the cops come.

 

[bsf]

What would you do?

Go home and read through threads at THR. I am not a cop.