If you feel the need to confront a trespasser on your property do it from behind cover

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Here hew would be on shaky legal ground go out side to protect property. They frown upon discharging a round outside for a car break in
That said - me, a 71 year old former cop , would not go out side. Observe and call the real cops.
Flood light and cameras are a good deterent as is my big mean, bad tempered Rott,
Who thinks he owns the whole neighborhood.
Know your local laws!
 
I saw a guy named Johnee Pitts break into my truck. I stayed inside the house. He stole my gps, apartment keys, and ipod. He took them to the local pawn shop. I had to identify and prove the items were mine. Still haven't gotten them back. Saw him doing his dirty work and just turned on the outside lights. I don't have time to get into a gun fight over items in my vehicles. I don't store firearms in a vehicle over night. He got no jail time, had to make restitution (to who, I don't know). The most expensive item was changing all the locks in our three unit because of the key he stole. Couldn't risk my tenants for a goof ball. At no time did I even get a firearms out. Just observe and report.
 
So lets see, the homeowner leaves they safety of his house to go outside with a gun to protect his car and could have died??

Kinda dumb to me, to think he is Mr Tactical. Why not call the Cops ? it's not like his life was in danger at the time. He puts himself in harms way to prove a point? Wonder if he has one of those CCW badges?

"It`s surreal to think that I could have lost my life in that driveway. But at the same time you know I am a conceal and carry participant. I do actively shoot and participate in carrying. And I think the personal protection of your home, your family, your life is very important,” said Terry Logan"
 
I don't know about other States (except maybe Texas at night)) where you can shoot someone for stealing property??
So why subject yourself to getting killed, ot then manslaughter if you shoot someone.?
 
As "city limits" are 15 or so miles away; I'm in a different situation. In short, beats me what response time would be from the Sheriff's department.
So what? You cannot shoot him, and pointing a gun without lawful justification might bring a conviction for a felony.
 
Living on an isolated farm with a couple of miles of riverfront, I've had my opportunity to confront my share of trespassers. The first thing I'd point out is that if the offense is mere trespassing making any kind of threat with a firearm is going beyond your legal right. Trespassing involves usually a small fine for isolated offenses, although the law in Virginia allows a year in prison and a $2500 fine. I don't know of a single case where this maximum penalty was applied, and if it was I suspect a good deal more was going on than mere trespass unless it was repeat and aggravated offense.

Sometimes a quiet word is all it takes to solve the problem. The person leaves, you go on with your day, and it's over. Sometimes too, you'll run into people who are lost, had vehicle trouble, trouble on the river, and who genuinely need help.

I've learned to be careful about who I approach. We have plenty of people who resent the idea of private property and a quiet question about why the person is on your property may well elicit extreme anger. More than once I've felt myself being assessed as in whether it would be best just to scream obscenities at me, simply ignore me, or attack me. Clearly, if that happens, I have the right to defend myself. Public perception of what then happens may not go in my favor. A large proportion of the public is going to view the incident as "he just wanted to hunt, fish, camp, or whatever he was doing, and you hurt or humiliated him"--skipping the middle part where he attacked me. Again, the very common resentment of private property ownership rears its ugly head.

If I run into somebody vandalizing property or stealing, I can and will confront them, taking whatever precautions the situation allows, but if it isn't a fast-breaking situation, I've long learned to call either a game warden or a deputy sheriff. The same person who shows extreme anger toward me will usually meekly follow an officer's commands, and when they pick up a citation for trespassing and whatever game and fish violations they're committing, word gets around, and it's usually a long time before the problem crops up again.

Most of the time, these people are dumb enough to resent the officer and not me. It doesn't always work. Some years ago, back when my father was alive I saw a gang of people fishing illegally, littering, and creating a general loud nuisance on the upper end of the farm. I called the game warden, and went back to work. He wrote them tickets and afterwards they found my father at the house, and demanded he call the warden and tell him they had permission. When he didn't do what they insisted, the preacher, with his authority with his church, condemned my father to hell. We had a good laugh about him paying for my actions.

The officers I deal with now have learned not to send trespassers back to me, but there's no way to guarantee that won't happen. Often, right after a person is written a ticket, he will hunt me down to offer an apology. I have to admit I'm usually not too nice because I tend to suspect what ends up as an apology and plea to intercede with the officer's decision to write a ticket would have been out and out intimidation had I appeared frail or vulnerable. For this reason, a lot of older landowners don't feel they can dare protect their property.
 
So what? You cannot shoot him, and pointing a gun without lawful justification might bring a conviction for a felony.

"So what?"
Why would I or anyone shoot a trespasser, a lost hiker, or hog hunters trying to find their dogs?
As it sure wasn't from what I posted; just where in the hell did you get what you said from? I'm not a trigger happy idiot as you so willingly assumed.

We live up on the mountain with no one within a mile. No one drives up here after dark or so the trail cams say.
Down in the flat land, people hunt hogs and often their dog's predator drive is in high gear and they stay in pursuit. Their owners come looking.. Why would I shoot them or the dogs? I put a higher value on life, any life, than you assumed.

Sorry, you mistook me for a trigger happy idiot or was it something else?
 
I don’t think Mr Logan went outside with any intent of getting in a gunfight. From what the video shows he went out to hold the burglar for the police. That’s pretty evident when he chases after the suspect when the suspect ran off.

Let’s look at these stills from the video:

78B04F47-8837-4C98-BA73-76276873A215.png


This is where we first see Mr Logan. Standing on the sidewalk with the lights at his back, completely visible to the suspect and presumably the accomplice who picked the suspect up.

He could have challenged the burglar from the door where the suspect would have had to look into the light to try to see who was challenging him.


3FFB2821-5467-456F-9E92-2180B1C7B305.png

In the second picture he’s advanced on the suspect as the suspect exits the car. Note that he has moved around the front of the car giving up the cover the engine block in the car would have provided him.
8DD62ED4-FEB7-4242-B4BC-4449046B8979.png

In the third picture he is all the way around the car with no potential cover at all.
8EEA08B5-3011-4022-992D-5964EC2251DD.png

In the last picture he is still advancing on the suspect. He’s in between the two cars with nowhere to go if it turns bad. If the suspect hadn’t tried to shoot him through the pickup he’d likely have been shot.

My take is he grabbed his gun and left the house with the intent of holding the car burglar for the police. Not his job. He talks about the safety of his girlfriend and kids. He certainly wouldn’t have provided them much protection if he was bleeding out in the street while the bad guy decided to see what was in the house.

I really hope one of the Jefferson County deputies took him aside and explained to him how easily it could have turned out tragically different.

Based on the interview I don’t think that happened.
 
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Here is a prowler. He tried to break into our shed for the low hanging fruit; then walked around to the back of the cabin. He ended up with an AK pointed at him.
Crowbar in hand and a pistol in his pocket. 25 minutes later, the deputy sheriff arrived..

No problems since then; here or with the people who live on the lake getting robbed again.
 
I’ve arrested several people being held at gun point by an angry property owner. Machine sheds around here are targeted a lot.

If you live in a rural area you might be on your own for 20-30 minutes or more. It’s a different type of situation then Mr Logan faced in Imperial last Friday night.
 
The more densely populated the area you live in, the less likely it is they will be sympathetic using armed force for any purpose other than protection against imminent grievous bodily injury, and even then it will be scrutinized 10 ways come Sunday to see if there's a way to prosecute you for unlawful use of force. It's getting scarier by the day out there.
 
The more densely populated the area you live in, the less likely it is they will be sympathetic using armed force for any purpose other than protection against imminent grievous bodily injury,
What does "they will be sympathetic" mean?

and even then it will be scrutinized 10 ways come Sunday to see if there's a way to prosecute you for unlawful use of force.
The "way" will be known at the outet.

Around nine years ago, man named Ward Bird, until then a law-abiding citizen, headed out to confront a trespasser on his property in rural New Hampshire. He did not know the law, and unfortunately, his gun was not holstered.

He was charged, tried, convicted, and imprisoned.

Back in George Washington's day, the Supreme Court of the Commonwealth of Virginia upheld the conviction of a man who had threatened a trespasser.

One of the justices wrote that, had the trespasser shot the gun-wielding land-owner, the act would most likely have constituted lawful self-defense.

The place wasn't very populated than.
 
View attachment 867083

Here is a prowler. He tried to break into our shed for the low hanging fruit; then walked around to the back of the cabin. He ended up with an AK pointed at him.
Crowbar in hand and a pistol in his pocket. 25 minutes later, the deputy sheriff arrived..

No problems since then; here or with the people who live on the lake getting robbed again.


Here is the solution ( I copied from another forum):)

A man awoke one evening to discover prowlers in his storage shed. He immediately called 911, gave his address, to report the prowlers and possible burglary. The operator at the other end said "Are they in your house?" He said they were not, only in his storage shed in back of the house. The operator said there were no cars available at that time. He thanked the operator, hung up the phone and counted to 30 and called again. "I just called you about prowlers in my storage shed. Well you do not have to worry, as I just shot them all dead!" Within seconds there were 3 police cars, an ambulance and fire engine at the scene. After capturing the prowlers red-handed, the policeman asked the caller, "I thought you said you had shot them all!" The man answered, "I thought you said there were no police available!"
 
Just to be clear on the law. It is perfectly legal in Illinois for a property owner to use deadly force to foil a forcible felony.
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=072000050HArt.+7&ActID=1876&ChapterID=53&SeqStart=8300000&SeqEnd=9900000
(720 ILCS 5/7-3) (from Ch. 38, par. 7-3)
Sec. 7-3. Use of force in defense of other property.
(a) A person is justified in the use of force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to prevent or terminate such other's trespass on or other tortious or criminal interference with either real property (other than a dwelling) or personal property, lawfully in his possession or in the possession of another who is a member of his immediate family or household or of a person whose property he has a legal duty to protect. However, he is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
(b) In no case shall any act involving the use of force justified under this Section give rise to any claim or liability brought by or on behalf of any person acting within the definition of "aggressor" set forth in Section 7-4 of this Article, or the estate, spouse, or other family member of such a person, against the person or estate of the person using such justified force, unless the use of force involves willful or wanton misconduct.
(Source: P.A. 93-832, eff. 7-28-04.)


Burglary is a forcible felony:
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=072000050HArt.+2&ActID=1876&ChapterID=53&SeqStart=1000000&SeqEnd=5200000
(720 ILCS 5/2-8) (from Ch. 38, par. 2-8)
Sec. 2-8. "Forcible felony". "Forcible felony" means treason, first degree murder, second degree murder, predatory criminal sexual assault of a child, aggravated criminal sexual assault, criminal sexual assault, robbery, burglary, residential burglary, aggravated arson, arson, aggravated kidnaping, kidnaping, aggravated battery resulting in great bodily harm or permanent disability or disfigurement and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.
(Source: P.A. 88-277; 89-428, eff. 12-13-95; 89-462, eff. 5-29-96.)


Burglary is defined as follows:

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=072000050HArt.+19&ActID=1876&ChapterID=53&SeqStart=63000000&SeqEnd=63800000
(720 ILCS 5/Art. 19 heading) ARTICLE 19. BURGLARY
(720 ILCS 5/19-1) (from Ch. 38, par. 19-1)
Sec. 19-1. Burglary.
(a) A person commits burglary when without authority he or she knowingly enters or without authority remains within a building, housetrailer, watercraft, aircraft, motor vehicle, railroad car, or any part thereof, with intent to commit therein a felony or theft. This offense shall not include the offenses set out in Section 4-102 of the Illinois Vehicle Code.


So here it's quite legal to be armed when you confront someone in your home, outbuilding or vehicle. That's why when I would arrest a burglar being held at gunpoint by an irate farmer who caught him in his machine shed I didn't arrest the farmer as the farmer committed no crime. I should have titled the thread confronting a burglar rather then confronting a trespasser to avoid confusion.
 
So, in the article, Mr. Logan states he "was not expecting to be shot at"....so why was he already pointing a gun at the suspect? Seems like that statement right there could get you into trouble. Not bright all the way around. I'm not saying it was the case for this guy, but I've met at least a handful of people who seem to just be itching to be in a situation where they would "have to use their gun"....I tend to steer clear of these folks. I'd much rather avoid being in that situation, but be prepared should it happen. Seems like this one was avoidable
 
I’ve arrested several people being held at gun point by an angry property owner. Machine sheds around here are targeted a lot.

If you live in a rural area you might be on your own for 20-30 minutes or more. It’s a different type of situation then Mr Logan faced in Imperial last Friday night.

My grandson is a deputy sheriff and I thank you for your service.

Here, sheds are targeted for mowers, chainsaws and other low hanging easy to sell/pawn fruit. My truck was in the dealer's for warranty and friends took us home. I still wonder with the dogs barking what was his plan?
You're in Illinois and each state is different. Georgia states:
"In Georgia, deadly force cannot be used to protect property unless the owner “reasonably believes” it is necessary to prevent a “forcible felony,” a term with a very specific definition including, but not limited to, physical force or violence against a person, including murder, burglary, robbery, kidnapping, or rape. "

IMO, people who live in or near cities view such matters differently than hicks in the sticks which is quite justifiable.

I've heard enough rumors that here in mountains of NE Georgia people are prone to shoot; however, why would I want to do that? Too many people have something to prove and I'm not one of them.
 
Someone gets past the locks and immobilizer on my $1500.00 car then good riddance. A "Not Guilty" will cost me a thousand such cars.
We live in an unusual political climate.
 
I used light very effectively on vehicle stops. I always hit the rear view mirror with my spotlight to light up the interior of the vehicle and disorient the occupants while I approached.
I once had an “anal headcover” officer do that to me WHILE I WAS STILL DRIVING, and before he popped lights. Tried to claim he popped lights and I ran. Disorienting is pretty much spot on, and its as confusing for him to explain why he wasn’t to blame for me running through a ditch and 2 mailboxes as it is to figure out how to drive by sight when sight isn’t an option. Pretty effective... but please don’t do it while somebody is on the move, or while situations are already amped up because drivers can’t see, and I can absolutely understand why a person might fire blindly if holding a weapon or swing randomly with other weapons.
 
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