Glocks that aren't made by Glock. Next "Big" Thing?

USBP379 said:

More and more of these are popping up. We've got ZEV, 80%, Lone Wolf, and a few others.

I like the idea of the permanent beavertail. Hopefully the prominence of these on the aftermarket frames will prompt Glock to add something like this on the Gen 6.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/ar...e-a-glock-nomad-9-and-shadow-systems-pistols/

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Naw, that makes too much sense. Glock would rather move the mag release one millimeter and call that Gen 6.

This is awesome. Now I will save even more money by not buying Glocks from more than just the Glock company.

All thats going to do is send the Glock clones down the 1911 path. And nothing good is likely to come of it, just like the 1911's.

USBP379 said:

1911 fans have never had it so good. Gone are the days when the only game in town was Colt and it was mandatory that the gun had to be worked over by a gunsmith to get it running right.

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Couldn't agree more. Thank you pre-series 2 Kimber! Forced everyone to step up thier game.

I had one several years ago. So, they've been around for quite some time.

I think it was called a S&W SD9VE.

Remember; "Mock-Glock"?

On second thought, that S&W pistol felt better than any Glock I've owned and didn't HAVE to come in black.

Todd.

Ive owned right around 40 1911's over the years, and of a number of different makes. The only ones Ive ever trusted to carry or bet my life on were original Colt and USGI guns, that had the necessary "reliability packages" done to them to make sure they would function with any ammo I put in them, and put some better sights on them.

The majority of the clones always had troubles of some sort, and that includes Kimber and Springfield. Pretty much all of them needed additional help and fiddling to try and get them to work properly.

Even then, many didnt. My first Springfield Loaded wouldnt even function with GI ball out of the box. My Kimber Ultra Carry, rarely made it through a mag without a stoppage.

I like a good, working 1911 as much as the next guy. Finding one that does that, right out of the box, and doesnt need some sort of fiddling, hasnt seemed to have changed much that Ive seen over the years.

This past year, after a self-imposed hiatus on buying 1911's for the past almost 20 years, I broke down and picked up a couple.

One, was a new Springfield Defender. While it was so tight, you couldnt take it apart by hand, it seemed to run OK at first. But now that its loosening up a bit, its starting to choke on things that the other 1911's I have, have no troubles with.

I also picked up a basic High Standard that was used, and seemed to be OK as well at first blush. Until I got it home and actually tried to take it apart and shooting it. The slide was not machined correctly, and the slide stop had issues. Took some fiddling and a new slide stop to get it to run, and so far, it seems to be doing OK, but here I am again, fiddling and farting around with something that I shouldn't have to, and the main reason I got out of them back at the turn of the century.

In that time since, Ive bought around 45 SIG's and Glocks, and all of them, except one of the SIG's, worked 99.9% out of the box, with no other fiddling.

That one SIG that was trouble? It was a P238, yet another, 1911 clone, that had problems right from the start, NIB.

Color me jaded, but youre going to have to go a long way to prove to me, that everyone and their brother making 1911's, made them "better".

People can, and already have tried to make Glock copies, and already from some Ive seen and one Ive owned, a CZ P10C, they are headed down that 1911 road.

AK103K said:

Ive owned right around 40 1911's over the years, and of a number of different makes. The only ones Ive ever trusted to carry or bet my life on were original Colt and USGI guns, that had the necessary "reliability packages" done to them to make sure they would function with any ammo I put in them, and put some better sights on them.

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I've only owned a dozen or so and every single one was fully reliable either out of the box or after minor extractor tensioning.

My worst was a Colt series 70. Fine and all just nothing about it was that great, and the sights sucked.

I still have a Kimber, RIA, Remington and a couple Dan Wesson's and I trust each of them for carry or HD.

I'm not crazy about the 80% lowers as a trend because I'm just sure they will be the next useless gun grabber push, these so called "ghost guns". Also basic Glocks fit me just fine and if they don't everybody and their brother makes a striker/poly gun so there's plenty of options.

I expect or at least hope that the price of retail glocks will come down to the pricing level that is offer to LEOs when they buy. Even with a hefty discount glock inc is still banking money even with such discounts. Glocks are not expensive for glock to make. I am not sure if the knock offs can maintain their quality control at low prices or even use the proper materials.

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USBP379 said:

Is the P10C really a Glock clone? Similar in appearance but different internally.

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It was very similar, and enough I noticed anyway.

I also noticed right off it wasnt a Glock. OK gun, as long as you didnt mount a suppressor. The downside to that was, it came specifically set up for that use, and was basicalyy a single shot gun for about 200 rounds, and still didnt function relaibly beyond that, although it was a lot better.

Its trigger was Glock like, but weird too. I was always expecting light strikes from it, but that never happened. It wasnt a nice, clean break like you get form the Glocks.

JR24 said:

I've only owned a dozen or so and every single one was fully reliable either out of the box or after minor extractor tensioning.

My worst was a Colt series 70. Fine and all just nothing about it was that great, and the sights sucked.

I still have a Kimber, RIA, Remington and a couple Dan Wesson's and I trust each of them for carry or HD.

I'm not crazy about the 80% lowers as a trend because I'm just sure they will be the next useless gun grabber push, these so called "ghost guns". Also basic Glocks fit me just fine and if they don't everybody and their brother makes a striker/poly gun so there's plenty of options.

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No doubt the 80% thing is going to pop up. I was really expecting a big push with that one shooting, when they kept going off about it.

My first 1911's were Colt and GI guns. Back then, other than maybe Star and Llama, which werent really all that common either, thats all you had.

Once Cooper and the gun rags started in on them, things just went nuts, and not always for the best. The mods to get function with things other than ball was a plus, but some of the other things, not so great.

I understand the dislike for the original sights, but I also, even now with older eyes, dont have a problem with them. I actually prefer the larger sights that sit low too.

What I did hate about the early, larger aftermarket sights, was the fact that they were most all still staked on, and they often didnt stay there long. I had one front sight come off a gun I waited 6 months to get back, in the very first mag. Needless to say, I was pissed! The best thing that happened there, was the rolled rivet type, and then the dovetails.

What kind of annoys me about this new Springfield I got is, its "staked". Im just waiting now with bated breath.

AK103K said:

Ive owned right around 40 1911's over the years, and of a number of different makes. The only ones Ive ever trusted to carry or bet my life on were original Colt and USGI guns, that had the necessary "reliability packages" done to them to make sure they would function with any ammo I put in them, and put some better sights on them.

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I've thinned the herd the past couple of years. I'm down to 12 1911 pistols. I've owned around three dozen or so in my lifetime.

I currently own 1911 pistols from Colt, Dan Wesson, Springfield, RIA, and S&W.

My carry gun is a well worn S&W PD Scandium framed commander. My two "gun game" 1911 pistols are a S&W and a Springfield TRP.

I've never had a problem with reliability in the 1911 platform. Use good tested mags and go. My lifetime total round count through 1911 pistols is well over 100k.

I own two 10mm 1911s both Dan Wesson, one 9mm the RIA, and the rest are .45 ACP. I shoot nothing but handloads in them. As long as I do my part on the Dillon presses there's no problem.

My Dan Wesson Valor and my STI Trojan 9mm both suit my purposes fine, whether or not these are authentic 1911 models is irrelevant to me.

I am right in the middle of this but I’m getting frustrated. I bought a large frame Glock complete lower, but aftermarket slides are essentially vaporware. I know Lone Wolf makes an Alpha Wolf full size slide and that’s what I intend to buy, but it’s frustrating that nobody has any in stock unless I buy one that is an uncut exterior that only costs $5 less than a OEM profiled and finished slide. I don’t mind finishing the exterior, but at $5 if I bust an endmill cutting stainless then I have spent more money on it just to have an unfinished gun. That said, I like how nice and square it is because that will clamp up well in a vice.

Texas10mm said:

I've thinned the herd the past couple of years. I'm down to 12 1911 pistols. I've owned around three dozen or so in my lifetime.

I currently own 1911 pistols from Colt, Dan Wesson, Springfield, RIA, and S&W.

My carry gun is a well worn S&W PD Scandium framed commander. My two "gun game" 1911 pistols are a S&W and a Springfield TRP.

I've never had a problem with reliability in the 1911 platform. Use good tested mags and go. My lifetime total round count through 1911 pistols is well over 100k.

I own two 10mm 1911s both Dan Wesson, one 9mm the RIA, and the rest are .45 ACP. I shoot nothing but handloads in them. As long as I do my part on the Dillon presses there's no problem.

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These days, and especially for anything I might consider for serious use, I tend to gravitate towards the things I would trust to work, right out of the box, with nothing more than the ammo I might have at hand.

In other words, open the box, load the mag, and put the gun in my holster.

Im pretty comfortable doing that with things like Glock and SIG. Not so much with many others. I wouldnt do do it with a 1911, of any make.

I still wouldnt have any problem throwing my old Colt Commander into its well worn Blade-Tech holster and use it if I had too, but of the four I have now, it, and one other, an old kit gun on an Essex frame, that were both gone over by EGW back in the 90's, they are the only ones I would trust. Anything else would have to prove itself before Id trust it. For me, the track record hasnt been real good there.

And anymore, I think Id have to rubberband the grip safety (I should probably just get them pinned) on them both too. That nice high grip I'm used to with the Glocks, tends to activate the grip safety on my 1911's when I try and shoot them. Makes for a random dead trigger when Im expecting a bang.

Its not that the 80% guns dont/wont work or have anything wrong with them, its just that, like the plethora of 1911's we have these days, I just think there are just too many variables to have to count on, to say that what youre going to get, is what you would expect, from a gun of proper spec, and known quality and build.

Its kind of like making copies of copies in a copy machine. The more you dilute the original, the copies arent always going to be the best.

Heck you can "build" your own with Polymer 80 and buy a slide from Brownells.
Lets not forget the dreaded 3D printers that can "make" a gun and the ammo as well!

I think if I want a "Glock Like" pistol I would just buy the Glock. Matter of fact I want a Glock. A gen 3 model 17. But I have read so much good about the S&W M&P II that that might be my next choice. Or maybe the Ruger American that is supposed to be made to Mil-Spec. See? I can't make up my mind. Maybe I should just be happy with my model 39-2, model 915 and SD9VE. All work perfectly and I already have them.

The only 1911 I ever owned was a Llama version. Once I got a Colt magazine for it it was 100% reliable. Even with hollow points. And the goofy thing was accurate as hell. I wish I still had it. I suppose it wasn't a great gun. I didn't know much about guns or 1911s when I bought it but I thought it was a great pistol for the $125 I paid for it. That was about 1984 IIRC.

AK103K said:

These days, and especially for anything I might consider for serious use, I tend to gravitate towards the things I would trust to work, right out of the box, with nothing more than the ammo I might have at hand.

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Have you bought a 1911 in the past 20 years?

Texas10mm said:

Have you bought a 1911 in the past 20 years?

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Yup, two this past year. A Springfield Defender and a High Standard basic GM.

Both are turning out to be what Ive seen in the past with many of the others Ive had.

Look, I like a proper functioning 1911 as much as the next guy, great guns when they work. I carried one on a daily basis for about 25 years, and longer than anything else. Im also not stuck in the 70's, where they were basically your only real choice and have moved on to things that have been working better, and are, or have been, more trustworthy.

I got a good deal on the High Standard, and while it had a couple of issues, I think Ive got them straightened out, and it seems to be doing OK now. Dont really have many rounds through it yet, so we'll see how it goes.

I broke a promise I made to myself almost 20 years ago now, not to buy another Springfield (anything), and it looks like its turning out I should have listened to myself. So far, the more I shoot it, the less it wants to work. So we'll see there too.

Just to put things in perspective, both of the Glock .45acp's I bought in the past couple of years, has worked 100% right out of the box, with any ammo I fed them, and each of those cost me about $400. That right there just reinforces the point.

USBP379 said:

I wonder if these Glock-like guns will lead to something like a Glock "custom shop." Factory guns with a factory warranty that include a good trigger, beavertail, etc. A complete factory pistol from Glock to compete with Shadow Systems and stuff like the SIG 320 X5.

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Dont hold your breath.

Gucci Glocks have been around for quite some time.. Glocks also joined that Exclusive Club of being able to be built with 100% aftermarket parts, like the Rem 700, 10/22, 1911, etc. many years ago.

I do have a mental block on paying what some of these Glock Chop Shops are asking. I have absolutely no qualms about spending many thousands on 1911/2011's but a Glock is a 500 dollar pistol to me. Even though I typically change out the triggers, barrel and obviously the dovetail protectors and only one Glock in my home remains stock.

I'm just the opposite. All the Glocks I have, except for those without factory night sights, are box stock. I prefer my 1911's, and most other things the same way as well, as much as possible. Some things just won't let you get away with that.

Seems that's the market here. Those who like to tinker, or can't get what they want out of the factory guns.

That, and then there's the "no one will know I have it" crowd.