Glocks that aren't made by Glock. Next "Big" Thing?

[bikerdoc]

I'm a 71 y/o dinosaur.
Never owned a glock, but have shot them. They work and are reliable as he'll but are soulless to me.
For 9's I prefer CZ, full size and compact, but my daily carry since 1966 has been some flavor of 1911.
All Colt, Rock Island, and ATI full size and officers models. All Totally reliable and work horses.
This is not meant to disparage Glocks, they work and God Bless Gaston for inventing them.
They must be doing something right to have a huge following and I'm just an old man yelling at clouds.
Carry on.

 

[Texas10mm]

Yup, two this past year. A Springfield Defender and a High Standard basic GM.

Both are turning out to be what Ive seen in the past with many of the others Ive had.

Look, I like a proper functioning 1911 as much as the next guy, great guns when they work. I carried one on a daily basis for about 25 years, and longer than anything else. Im also not stuck in the 70's, where they were basically your only real choice and have moved on to things that have been working better, and are, or have been, more trustworthy.

I got a good deal on the High Standard, and while it had a couple of issues, I think Ive got them straightened out, and it seems to be doing OK now. Dont really have many rounds through it yet, so we'll see how it goes.

I broke a promise I made to myself almost 20 years ago now, not to buy another Springfield (anything), and it looks like its turning out I should have listened to myself. So far, the more I shoot it, the less it wants to work. So we'll see there too.

Just to put things in perspective, both of the Glock .45acp's I bought in the past couple of years, has worked 100% right out of the box, with any ammo I fed them, and each of those cost me about $400. That right there just reinforces the point.

Wow, you bring to mind that old country song....if it weren't for bad luck...

 

[USBP379]

Wow, you bring to mind that old country song....if it weren't for bad luck...

There is something to be said about the inherent reliability of the design. Sometimes it takes the right combination of magazines and/or ammo to get a 1911 to run. Not a condemnation of the design. After all it was invented over 100 years ago.

Wilson Combat or Tripp Research mags have been the most reliable with the widest variety of ammo across the widest variety of guns in my experience. They aren't the cheapest mags on the market but they're likely to work.

Another cheap fix that has worked for me in several instances is the magazine catch from EGW. It has a slightly elevated shelf that holds the mag fractionally higher in the frame. This can be enough to take a gun that fails to feed on the 1st round out of an 8rd mag and make it work. Using this mag release may mean having to modify magazine base plates so they'll seat against the magazine floor plate notch in the frame but that's minutes worth of work with a file.

The Glock design, on the other hand, places cartridges more in direct line wiith the chamber and likely needs no modification to feed. In fact Glocks usually run perfectly until people start heavily modifying them by removing slide mass or fiddling with striker or recoil springs.

 

[Anchorite]

I think if I want a "Glock Like" pistol I would just buy the Glock. Matter of fact I want a Glock. A gen 3 model 17. But I have read so much good about the S&W M&P II that that might be my next choice. Or maybe the Ruger American that is supposed to be made to Mil-Spec. See? I can't make up my mind. Maybe I should just be happy with my model 39-2, model 915 and SD9VE. All work perfectly and I already have them.

The only 1911 I ever owned was a Llama version. Once I got a Colt magazine for it it was 100% reliable. Even with hollow points. And the goofy thing was accurate as hell. I wish I still had it. I suppose it wasn't a great gun. I didn't know much about guns or 1911s when I bought it but I thought it was a great pistol for the $125 I paid for it. That was about 1984 IIRC.

l’ve been eyeing the SD line of Smith pistols lately. They seem ridiculously low priced, but a forgotten model of polymer production. Can’t seem to figure out the true differences b/t the SD and the M&P line, but from all I’ve read online they represent a true, quality sleeper backed by S&W lifetime warranty. What’s not to like? Have you compared your SD to an M&P?

 

[AK103K]

In fact Glocks usually run perfectly until people start heavily modifying them by removing slide mass or fiddling with striker or recoil springs.

I think this tends to apply to most things.

Ive always found it entertaining, that "Perfection" is usually pretty close to just that, until people decide they know whats better, and try and improve upon it.

If anything shows this more than anything else, its the 1911's.

 

[USBP379]

Ive always found it entertaining, that "Perfection" is usually pretty close to just that, until people decide they know whats better, and try and improve upon it.

While Glock might have figured out magazine height and feed ramp geometry the gun does leave some room for improvement ergonomically. Hence stuff like the Nomad frame and the Shadow Systems pistol.

 

[AK103K]

While Glock might have figured out magazine height and feed ramp geometry the gun does leave some room for improvement ergonomically. Hence stuff like the Nomad frame and the Shadow Systems pistol.

I think the ergonomics thing is just lack of experience and more in people's heads and than in reality.

I own and shoot a number of the different types of autos, and find none of them are really all that different, and of course, none are really perfect either. None are hard to shoot well with either. And thats shooting in pretty much any manner you can think of, deliberate aiming, point shooting, whatever.

I think if more people spent a little quality time with things they arent familiar with, and got to actually know them, there would be a lot less bitching about trivial things.

From what Ive seen most of the bitching comes from those who have little to no real hands-on experience with whats being bitched about.

 

[94045]

Next big thing? Glocks with a Manual Safety (Ducking and Running)!

 

[kidneyboy]

Next big thing? Glocks with a Manual Safety (Ducking and Running)!

If they had a manual safety I'd still own one

 

[USBP379]

I think the ergonomics thing is just lack of experience and more in people's heads and than in reality.

I own and shoot a number of the different types of autos, and find none of them are really all that different, and of course, none are really perfect either. None are hard to shoot well with either. And thats shooting in pretty much any manner you can think of, deliberate aiming, point shooting, whatever.

I think if more people spent a little quality time with things they arent familiar with, and got to actually know them, there would be a lot less bitching about trivial things.

From what Ive seen most of the bitching comes from those who have little to no real hands-on experience with whats being bitched about.

I have pretty big hands. The issue for me is getting cut by the slide. It is possible to use the ridiculous clip on thing from Grip Force to keep from getting slide bite but these make the gun feel terrible. I have similar experiences with Glock's factory grip inserts.

 

[ThomasT]

l’ve been eyeing the SD line of Smith pistols lately. They seem ridiculously low priced, but a forgotten model of polymer production. Can’t seem to figure out the true differences b/t the SD and the M&P line, but from all I’ve read online they represent a true, quality sleeper backed by S&W lifetime warranty. What’s not to like? Have you compared your SD to an M&P?

No I have never compared the SD to an M&P. I have never even handled an M&P, just read good things about them. I see Academy has the SD pistols on sale for $279. I am tempted to buy another one at that price.

 

[Jim Watson]

If they had a manual safety I'd still own one

If'n you wuz an Ayrab, you would have one. Glock equipped guns for sale to the home of Osama with manual safeties. And they showed some for US consideration, but Sig had the inside track.


I have proposed that Glock be turned into a generic term, "glock" for all striker fired plastic pistols, similar to zerox, kleenex, bandaid, etc. Therefore a Smith & Wesson glock, a CZ glock, etc, etc. Capitalize only for Glock brand pistols.

 

[AK103K]

Next big thing? Glocks with a Manual Safety (Ducking and Running)!

Or a 1911 without one.

No real difference, either way, people always seem to figure out how to do something stupid, no matter the number or manner of safeties.

If anything, I think the guns "with" all the added safeties, just tend to bring on more trouble, as people tend to over rely on them, and expect them to keep them out of trouble.

Holstering requires the same diligence with either. And thats assuming those with a safety were in fact actually returned to that condition. Ive seen more than a couple that weren't, when the user was under some stress and/or distracted.

Proper, and well-ingrained gun handling, is more important than gizmos.

I have pretty big hands. The issue for me is getting cut by the slide. It is possible to use the ridiculous clip on thing from Grip Force to keep from getting slide bite but these make the gun feel terrible. I have similar experiences with Glock's factory grip inserts.

Glocks never seem to bite me. I get some hammer bite here and there with some 1911's and few others. Walther PPK's were always the worst for me when it came to drawing blood.

Of course, there are a lot of people who have no problem with any of them, so is it really ergonomics or just people who are on the outer edges of "average", when it comes to things like the above, that have and get to deal with the problems?

And as far as shooting any of them, bloodthirsty or not, Ive never had any trouble actually shooting them well. The bother, if there was any, came after.

If "everyone" was having an issue, then yea, maybe ergonomics would be the issue. I just dont think most things have a real problem in that respect though.

 

[USBP379]

If "everyone" was having an issue, then yea, maybe ergonomics would be the issue. I just dont think most things have a real problem in that respect though.

Well, maybe not "everyone" gets cut by the Glock slide but it is not uncommon especially with larger hands. It is common enough that ZEV, ZRO, Shadow Systems and Nomad all have an elongated beavertail as do the 80% frames and the frames from Timber Wolf.

Just because you don't get bit doesn't mean other people are doing something wrong.

 

[AK103K]

Just because you don't get bit doesn't mean other people are doing something wrong.

Wasnt saying anyone was doing anything wrong, simply that those who have the issue, are likely outside the "norm" or "average" for the design. I would imagine there are a lot more who dont get bit, than there are that do, or we'd be hearing a lot more about it, and you'd see changes from the makers. The fact that Glock now offers the adapters shows that they are at least addressing some of the complaints about the fit.

There are always going to be those who dont fit the "norm" bracket, and might have a less then perfect experience, and that goes for anything. Unfortunately, thats just life, and there will always be those who are not going to be happy about something.

The reason you see the beavertails on things like the 1911's, and a few others, is because the guns were designed for one thing, and people wanted something else out of them, IE, a higher, more controllable grip, and in doing so, caused something else to occur, which then needed addressed. And as with most things, if you change one thing, youre likely going to start a small chain reaction of other things that go wrong because of the change, and need to be addressed as well.

I know a lot of people who have "standard" 1911's that have never had the hammer bite them. I know a lot of people who have Glocks and I dont know a one who has ever complained that they were bitten by one. Never really even knew it was an issue until I read it on the web, and even then, its not all that common to hear it, especially when you consider the number of people who have them. Not at all saying you or others dont get bitten either, I just think though, that those who do, are "out of the norm" and one of a smaller number of outliers that might.

Unfortunately for those few, they need to do something to adapt to it, or go with something else if they cant make it work.

I know that S&W made some changes to the PPK's because of the well known "bite" they gave. And Id be willing to bet, for "most" the problem has been addressed and/or greatly improved.

But Id also bet, that if you are one that a standard Glock is biting you, then the new and improved PPK, may very well likely also still bite. A guess on my part, but Id still put a couple of bucks on that bet.

 

[Jim Watson]

I don't understand, Glock has been including an assortment of attachable beaver tails with their standard guns and integral beaver tails on some of their offshoots.

 

[JERRY]

other gun companies have been making knock off Glocks since the mid 90s when S&W introduced their Sigma.

 

[USBP379]

other gun companies have been making knock off Glocks since the mid 90s when S&W introduced their Sigma.

How'd that work out for Smith?

 

[JERRY]

How'd that work out for Smith?

I don't know. what's the difference between the 1994 Sigma and the 2019 SD9 VE?

 

[Anchorite]

I don't know. what's the difference between the 1994 Sigma and the 2019 SD9 VE?

They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I’d like to know the detailed difference b/t the SD and the M&P.

 

[GEM]

I am a 72 year old dinosaur and happily shoot Glocks, 1911s and SW DA revolvers equally well or crappy. I practice hold them so the grip angle and ergonomics work for me.

 

[JeffG]

Next "Big" Thing?

I hope not.