Yes, I pointed out in the first post I made you quoted that the same manufacturing methods are used, but it's different to say they are exactly the same without info from Speer or independent measurements.They're both electroplated. I haven't tortured the gold dots, but based on pictures, descriptions, price, and advertised performance, they're the same thing. Federal calls em fusion, sells em like crazy, and then several years later sister speer has gold dots, I'd be shocked if there was ANY difference.
help her get comfortable training into field shooting positions so she can deliver a speedy little 6mm bullet to the pumphouse reliably, and there won’t be any tracking to worry about.
https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/handloading-speers-new-gold-dot-bullets/359317Yes, I pointed out in the first post I made you quoted that the same manufacturing methods are used, but it's different to say they are exactly the same without info from Speer or independent measurements.
I would expect from an overall product philosophy standpoint God Dot handgun bullets built their reputation on several strong factors. These factors are with the framework of a human body as the target.
1. Rapid expansion after impact on the intended target.
2. Maintaining bullet integrity through travel inside the target.
Both of those lead to
3. Repeatable penetration depth within a target within sn accepted range of penetration depths. Not typically displaying accepted penetrating less than, nor greater than, an expexted distance.
4. Little effect of exterior layers ( typical clothing) worn by the intended target.
There's a whole different set of data on performance after passing through all sorts of barriers (such as automobile glass) that wouldn't typically be expected to apply to sport game hunting.
So with this in mind, if Fusion rifle bullets have difficulty game that is light skinned, woildn't it be philosophically congruent to go back to feature 1. above for Gold Dot rifle bulltets advertised as sold for the same overall purpose as Gold Dot handgun bullets?
I'm still interested in definitive objective info demonstrating that all parameters of Fusion and Gold Dot rifle bullets sharing the same caliber and bullet weight are identical, within manufacturing and measurement tolerances of course. It's not too difficult for me to concieve of a slight change in manufacturing processes to allow electroplating the jacket at designed difference in jacket thickness across the bullet profile similar to the properties Norma advertises for their Oryx bullet line, which I haven't seen data advertising electroplating as part of the manufacturing process.
What is false about it???False!
I may be wasting my time reloading if these are, as advertised.Daughter has shot 3 deer with her Savage 110 using Winchester 100gr Powerpoint and all 3 dies in their tracks. Longest shot was 175 yards.
View attachment 883845
I hope you figure something out cause I’m interested myself in hunting bullets, the copper we’re mentioned to me awhile back as I was working on a deer load a fella swore that was the way forward. - light high speed big damage..I may be wasting my time reloading if these are, as advertised.
Still wondering how I can test for an EXIT???
Even testing my reloads because I am sure I can match any factory load with grouping
but the velocity & groups won't tell me what I really need to know.
Lining up gallon jugs is a back yard Yahoo Vid kind of thing with no real valid outcome.
Any ideas?
What bullet can I reload in a 243 that will exit the deer at 150 to 250 yards for a better blood trail than the Fusion[?]
I could use timed rate of extraction from an electroplating solution to smootly provide a countoured jacket thickness, less near the meplat, more toward the base, as something simple enough for snyone reading this post to hopefully understand. Can you tell me why none of the otherr features you emphasize would preclude this possibility?https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/handloading-speers-new-gold-dot-bullets/359317
Skived nose for "rapid expansion" and a slippery coating. I run gold dots in my handguns and truly believe that if the fusion had a wider meplat, (think Nppt) they would act closer what I see from a handgun projectile, maybe skiving the nose helps? For penetration I've no complaints with the fusion types, but Skived nose or not, I'll not be needing them for sub-elk class game. I do enjoy they're accuracy and am glad someone finally brought a cheap tuff bullet to the table.
Lining up representative critter carcasses or suitable representative critter parts with water jugs for a backstop?I may be wasting my time reloading if these are, as advertised.
Still wondering how I can test for an EXIT???
Even testing my reloads because I am sure I can match any factory load with grouping
but the velocity & groups won't tell me what I really need to know.
Lining up gallon jugs is a back yard Yahoo Vid kind of thing with no real valid outcome.
Any ideas?
I may be wasting my time reloading if these are, as advertised.
Still wondering how I can test for an EXIT???
I may be wasting my time reloading if these are, as advertised.
Still wondering how I can test for an EXIT???
Even testing my reloads because I am sure I can match any factory load with grouping
but the velocity & groups won't tell me what I really need to know.
Lining up gallon jugs is a back yard Yahoo Vid kind of thing with no real valid outcome.
Any ideas?
You could try shooting through a semi frozen ham, ribs or other such meat. Might give an indication of performance on game.
What is false about it?
Go up to 260 or 30-06.
I may be wasting my time reloading if these are, as advertised.
Still wondering how I can test for an EXIT???
Even testing my reloads because I am sure I can match any factory load with grouping
but the velocity & groups won't tell me what I really need to know.
Lining up gallon jugs is a back yard Yahoo Vid kind of thing with no real valid outcome.
Any ideas?
I can’t speak to the Fusion’s blood trail, as I have not used them, but they’re an electroplated bullet. But I’ll point something out which isn’t always intuitive:
A simple cup and core bullet like the Rem Corelokt or Hornady Interlock with “controlled expansion” will expand well and leave a larger exit wound (relatively). A very forward progressive permanent wound cavity with a smaller temporary to permanent cavity ratio (relatively). These bullets can’t give up too much too early, otherwise they’ll fall apart, so they hold together tighter, don’t dump energy as quickly, but penetrate well because they don’t waste too much energy up front with overexpansion. These will kill, don’t get me wrong, but they kill differently than some other bullets. NAB’s, and I’d expect the Fusions based on using them in other cartridges, are bonded, so they’ll hold together better following more “violent” expansion. They can dump a lot up front without risking much fracture, so they’ll produce a larger temporary cavity, a more “snake ate an egg” permanent cavity, and may not bleed out the exit quite as much as the cup and core bullets above. Copper monometals and partition bullets work more like a bonded bullet than a cup and core - they can be made with very “soft” tips, because even if the nose wipes completely away, the heavy solid shank will still penetrate out. Another big temp cavity, but instead of a smoother “snake ate an egg” permanent cavity, it’s kind of like a trumpet shooting a spitwad as the shedding petals of a Barnes or the smearing Ogive of the Partition come apart, and the smaller diameter shaft finishes the race with less influence on surrounding tissue. Frangibles like the SST, ELD-x, etc, or the Berger Hybrids I have used to kill my last couple bucks in 6 creed often won’t exit, won’t bleed worth a damn, and they’ll blow a huge temporary cavity, like a mushroom cloud turned on its side...
Judging those for blood trail alone, the cup and core bullets are hard to beat. But blood trail alone is not the entire story...
The key difference for me is how far I might have to trail/track. Blood trails seem great, but a bullet which anchors deer within 10-30yrds doesn’t need much blood trail. For this reason, I lean away from the cup and core, and towards the faster killing bullets. Not everyone is as comfortable as I have become with frangible bullets. They might not bleed much externally, but the inside looks like canned jam, and they don’t travel - “tracking” involves walking to the point of impact, turning in the direction of the deer’s run, and spotting the downed deer. The NAB’s and Partitions I recommended on the first page offer more insurance of an exit wound and blood trail, with only a slightly reduced “drop dead quick” factor. Cup and core bullets will often leave you needing the blood trail they offer. They’ll kill, and deer will go down, but your likelihood of having a 100yrd+ tracking job is exponentially increased.
(Enter all of the guys touting DRT’s with high shoulder shots and cup and core bullets, personally insulted that my experience doesn’t align with their preference).
Wow the high shoulder shot to me it wasteful in shoulder & tenderloin & some neck meat, the latter isn't my favorite butEnter all of the guys touting DRT’s with high shoulder shots and cup and core bullets, personally insulted that my experience doesn’t align with their preference
Why in the world would you use "semi-frozen" ham or other meat? I don't think the OP's female friend is shooting semi-frozen deer
Thanks.We are in the Handloading section. We are here to help with the problem at hand.
False that we would all hope she'd try other calibers and rifles. The .223 data (had we been able to score today) would have been relevant for types of bullets vs impact speeds vs exits. For a better blood trail literally anything softer than a mono/fusion will leave bigger holes. The biggest factors I've drawn so far:What is false about it???
She has never tried any other rifle in her life except a 22.
She is doubting the bullets, not the caliber.
The 223 info isn't relevant here because it isn't a legal deer caliber here, if it was a lot of
people would use it.
The question here is: What bullet can I reload in a 243 that will exit the deer at 150 to 250 yards for
a better blood trail than the Fusion.
On the factory note, have her try the browning bxr 97 gr, yes they're expensive but they are perfectly at the other end of the spectrum from the fusion line and if she doesn't like the grenade in the chest that would give us more to work with (and yes as long as the distance is over 75 yds, she'll have a much larger hole to look through).Wow the high shoulder shot to me it wasteful in shoulder & tenderloin & some neck meat, the latter isn't my favorite but
it is used if we can save it.
Plus you are correct about the bullet size limiting how much mass it can open & not loose weight & energy, which applies to
any caliber of course but this 243 bullet is a rocket sled on a rail which can deliver a real payload, yet it is almost in a
category where you have to pick the bullet for the angle when I know there has to be a good overall bullet for any angle.
May be factory may be home made, maybe both.