LnL AP drive hub slop

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Kaldor said:
However, shell plate lift is pretty bad. Primers on a 223 case are sitting 10 thou proud, which is no bueno. I do run a shim under the primer seater to give a little more lift to offset the divot in my
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The priming will work like butter if the shell plate is shimmed properly. The priming pin isn't long enough to compensate for much shell plate lift. The shim/dime/washer trick under the priming pin didn't make any difference on primer seating depth for me. There is not enough travel designed into the primer seating pin to compensate for that much left or tilt in the shell plate and that is why you are seeing shallow primer seating.

When the play between the drive hub and sub-plate is removed, the rise and tilt in the shell plate is removed (except for a few thousands left so the shell plate can rotate smoothly without rubbing) and the priming pin has enough travel to seat primer properly.

I read all the time on forums that guys prime off their presses because they can never get the priming system to work reliably. If the pawls are timed properly and play in the drive hub removed, priming on the Hornady works just fine.

This is a definitely design flaw with the Hornady LNL AP and I wish they would address it.
 
Ruger 15151 said:
The priming will work like butter if the shell plate is shimmed properly. The priming pin isn't long enough to compensate for much shell plate lift. The shim/dime/washer trick under the priming pin didn't make any difference on primer seating depth for me. There is not enough travel designed into the primer seating pin to compensate for that much left or tilt in the shell plate and that is why you are seeing shallow primer seating.

When the play between the drive hub and sub-plate is removed, the rise and tilt in the shell plate is removed (except for a few thousands left so the shell plate can rotate smoothly without rubbing) and the priming pin has enough travel to seat primer properly.

I read all the time on forums that guys prime off their presses because they can never get the priming system to work reliably. If the pawls are timed properly and play in the drive hub removed, priming on the Hornady works just fine.

This is a definitely design flaw with the Hornady LNL AP and I wish they would address it.
Click to expand...

Im at at least 100k round loaded and brass prepped on my press and my priming has never been an issue. If it was just up and down, Id shim it, I have the shims on hand. Im seeing alot of side to side movement, which is why Im seeing shell plate lift and tilt. So Ill contact Hornady, they will replace the parts for notta. Ill put it back together, maybe shim the drive hub if its needed, and run it another 100k :)
 
Ruger 15151 said:
I read all the time on forums that guys prime off their presses because they can never get the priming system to work reliably.
Click to expand...
I got ruined on priming on the old Projector which was the forerunner to the LNL. The LNL is much improved, and shell plates with two larger detents vs the one smaller detent make a big difference. I have never set up my LNL to prime. It may work great.

I don't seem to have a pic of one of the old, blue, single, small detent, plates, and can't remember if I saved them or tossed them. The old plates index like crap.
 
Walkalong said:
Here is my drive hub. Maybe .020 below flush, just guessing.
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Ruger 15151 said:
I used a deck mic and mine measured about .015 below flush. I shimmed mine .012 ( .008 + .004 shim ) and everything works great now. Primers seat perfectly, Shell plate indexes the way it should every time, and the bullet seating depth is much more consistent.
Click to expand...

I should have checked mine before I pulled it apart. Oh well, Ill check it when I put it back together.
 
Walkalong said:
I got ruined on priming on the old Projector which was the forerunner to the LNL. The LNL is much improved, and shell plates with two larger detents vs the one smaller detent make a big difference. I have never set up my LNL to prime. It may work great.

I don't seem to have a pic of one of the old, blue, single, small detent, plates, and can't remember if I saved them or tossed them. The old plates index like crap.
Click to expand...

One thing guys sometime forget to check is to make sure the primer shuttle is centered on the primer tube when it is in the fully up stroke. That can certainly bite you in the butt if its not picking up a primer correctly.
 
I prime on mine all the time without any problems. I got a batch of primers that were running tall one time and had to place a shim under the primer feed column. Once done every thing ran smooth. Yes if you shell plate is lifting that needs to be addressed, for it effects a lot of functions.
 
Kaldor said:
One thing guys sometime forget to check is to make sure the primer shuttle is centered on the primer tube when it is in the fully up stroke. That can certainly bite you in the butt if its not picking up a primer correctly.
Click to expand...

Good point. I have mine set so that the primer shuttle actually goes about a 1/16 past center of the primmer tube on the upstroke. If it doesn't drop in on the way up, it will drop in on the way back. I also used a countersink to remove the casting burr where the primer drops into the shuttle.
 
I don't have any trouble priming on mine either but I don't punch out old primers and punch in new ones on the same stroke. I deprime all of mine at one time and run them through my ultrasonic, dry them and then clean it out before I start loading, when I load I don't have the dirt from deprimming working its way into the primer shuttle slide.
I always figured that was why I've had such good luck with mine.
Getting a little gritty spent primer dirt in a primer feed system is bad news. The way the Hornady is designed it just packs in front of the shuttle and limits it's travel. Then primers don't line up with case.
I haven't had trouble with plate wobbling around. I lost track of how many rounds have gone through mine, North of 50k, has to be by now. Especially when the same case goes through the press twice the way I do it.
 
tightgroup tiger said:
I don't have any trouble priming on mine either but I don't punch out old primers and punch in new ones on the same stroke. I deprime all of mine at one time and run them through my ultrasonic, dry them and then clean it out before I start loading, when I load I don't have the dirt from deprimming working its way into the primer shuttle slide.
I always figured that was why I've had such good luck with mine.
Click to expand...
I would agree, leaving out the sizing (Pre-sized/decapped) makes a big difference in how press flex.

I also size/decapp in one run and load in another. But I hand prime in between. :)
 
rskent said:
I get how it affects priming, but exactly how does it affect seating depth. The case sits on the sub plate and is run up to the seating die. It seems like at that point the shell plate is irrelevant. Help me out here.
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Most set up their dies on a LNL AP one at a time with the seating die in station #4. When you do this there isn't equal pressure on both sides of the shell plate so if there is space between the sub-plate and the shell plate, it will tilt. Once you have set all the dies up and have shells in all 5 stations, the pressure in station #1 (sizing die) offsets the pressure in station #4 (seating die) so the shell plate doesn't tilt as much. This will change the seating depth that you had when you originally set up the seating die. In addition, even when there is resistance in all 5 stations, tilt isn't consistent because some shells are tighter in the sizing die and some bullets (depending on case thickness) require more force.

Many reloaders (including myself) size in a separate step because they get more bullet seating consistence. Instead of getting a COL of +/-.005 which means some can vary as much as .010. I see +/- .001 when loading the same head stamp and good bullets.

Most aren't really concerned about this OCD stuff because the Hornady LNL produces very good results right out of the box. It only matters if you are looking to produce very consistent ammo.
 
Ruger
Still not seeing it. After I read your explanation I went out to my little workshop. The press is set up for 223. So, I take the bolt completely out of the hub, put a case in where my seating die would be and run the case tight up against the ceiling of the press. (yes, I had to rotate it a bit off to the side) At that point I can lift the shell plate up about ¾” on the offside and completely remove the shell plate without disturbing the case. Try it, I bet you can as well. Try as I may, I just can’t see shell plate tilt affecting seating depth. What am I missing?
 
It's not the shell plate tilting, it's press flex from the stain of sizing vs the other operations, flaring, seating, crimping, unless you are roll crimping to save the universe or something.
 
My press is still on the old priming system, see know reason to upgrade it. What I did to mine was to file down some of the bottom front nose of the sled. This allows for some debre to gather and not impair the sled. Another thing I did was to lower the guide/operating rod as low as I could get it. I think I even shortened it a little to increase the time the sled stayed at the top for primers to drop. Also make sure you use the plastic weight push rod on the primer stack. This helps the primers to drop faster when it's getting low.
 
Ruger 15151 said:
I used a deck mic and mine measured about .015 below flush. I shimmed mine .012 ( .008 + .004 shim ) and everything works great now. Primers seat perfectly, Shell plate indexes the way it should every time, and the bullet seating depth is much more consistent.
Click to expand...

Why would the hub being below the sub plate be a problem? When you tighten the retaining bolt for the shell plate doesn’t it pull the hub up to the plate? Wouldn’t shell plate tilt be from however much clearance is left after the retaining bolt is tight? Or however much the hub face lifts above the sub plate?
 
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Reeferman said:
Kaldor what did you get figured out with your LNL?
Click to expand...

Yup, I did. Parts came in Friday, fixed it Friday night. Did not take pics, as the process is pretty straight forward. Drop in drive hub, put on new press deck, setup case feeder timing, put primer system back in place, done.

Did run into some issues along the way, but nothing crazy. First off, I shimmed the drive a hair with a 5 thou shim. I started at 10 thou and worked backwards, press ran best with the 5 thou. That worked fine for the 600 rounds of 223 I loaded on Saturday. Switched to 9mm and found that the shell plate was really tight and wouldnt turn easily on cycling the press. Backed off the shell plate bolt, and it started turning. Popped the press deck loose, thankfully without having to mess with the case feeder or priming system, removed the 5 thou shim, and put it back together. 9mm plate turns easily now. So the tolerances on my particular shell plate, drive hub, and press deck were good enough that adding the shim into the drive created a problem instead of fixing it.

Alls well that ends well. Setting up to run 5000 9mm this week :)
 
Kaldor said:
Yup, I did. Parts came in Friday, fixed it Friday night. Did not take pics, as the process is pretty straight forward. Drop in drive hub, put on new press deck, setup case feeder timing, put primer system back in place, done.

Did run into some issues along the way, but nothing crazy. First off, I shimmed the drive a hair with a 5 thou shim. I started at 10 thou and worked backwards, press ran best with the 5 thou. That worked fine for the 600 rounds of 223 I loaded on Saturday. Switched to 9mm and found that the shell plate was really tight and wouldnt turn easily on cycling the press. Backed off the shell plate bolt, and it started turning. Popped the press deck loose, thankfully without having to mess with the case feeder or priming system, removed the 5 thou shim, and put it back together. 9mm plate turns easily now. So the tolerances on my particular shell plate, drive hub, and press deck were good enough that adding the shim into the drive created a problem instead of fixing it.

Alls well that ends well. Setting up to run 5000 9mm this week :)
Click to expand...

Good to here. What did you say to Hornady about the issue you had and what parts did they send you?
I had the same issue when I tried install shims in my LNL and took them out.
 
Reeferman said:
Good to here. What did you say to Hornady about the issue you had and what parts did they send you?
I had the same issue when I tried install shims in my LNL and took them out.
Click to expand...

Drive hub 29 # 392355 - 1
Sub plate 24 # 398309T - 1

I didnt have anything else that needed to be replaced.
 
Kaldor said:
Yup, I did. Parts came in Friday, fixed it Friday night. Did not take pics, as the process is pretty straight forward. Drop in drive hub, put on new press deck, setup case feeder timing, put primer system back in place, done.

Did run into some issues along the way, but nothing crazy. First off, I shimmed the drive a hair with a 5 thou shim. I started at 10 thou and worked backwards, press ran best with the 5 thou. That worked fine for the 600 rounds of 223 I loaded on Saturday. Switched to 9mm and found that the shell plate was really tight and wouldnt turn easily on cycling the press. Backed off the shell plate bolt, and it started turning. Popped the press deck loose, thankfully without having to mess with the case feeder or priming system, removed the 5 thou shim, and put it back together. 9mm plate turns easily now. So the tolerances on my particular shell plate, drive hub, and press deck were good enough that adding the shim into the drive created a problem instead of fixing it.

Alls well that ends well. Setting up to run 5000 9mm this week :)
Click to expand...

Good to hear everything is running smooth again.
 
I think that's why Hornady leaves so much play. If they could tighten up the tolerances from shell plate to shell plate, they could actually remove all the play with the correct drive hub thickness. However, glad you were able to get back to loading again!
 
Ruger 15151 said:
I re-read your second post and I think you have 2 separate issues going on.

#1 - If the shell plate is no longer indexing properly on the up or down stroke, its likely that the pawls are worn and out of adjustment. You probably can't prime you cases very well either. There are several videos on how to adjust or replace worn pawls on YouTube. However, this one by Hornady should help:



#2 - The tilt in the shell plate is common, even on a brand new press. It creates issues with inconsistent bullet seating depths and primers seating properly. The tolerances in the drive hub heights as well as the shell plates are very inconsistent. I call Hornady to explain my concern and they initially sent me a new drive hub which didn't do anything. They then sent me a replacement 9mm shell plate and it had even more play and tilt. The tilt is caused by too much play between the shaft and the drive hub itself once the shell plate is tight. Mine had about .015 of play up and down. I was able to completely remove almost all my shell plate tilt by installing .012 of shims between the drive hub and the shaft. I'll attach a link that will explain how to do it and what shims you need. They can be found on Amazon and Ebay for a few bucks delivered. If you don't have a depth micrometer, just keep adding shims until the shell plate starts to bind as it indexes, then just remove some shim until it rotates freely. Your tilt will be almost gone, allowing you to seat primers like butter and seat you bullets with more consistency.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/...y-Lock-N-Load-AP-progressive-press/42-414607/

Hope this information helps![/QTE]


I want to thank RUGER 15151 for this very helpful post.

My Lock n Load had begun to show some wobble in the shell plate (even when snugged down) and was throwing occasional high primers and even apparent differences in the case mouth belling. Following the advice above, I ordered the appropriate shims through Amazon Prime (about $7 and arrived in two days) and got to work on the installation. Removing the hub drive is easy, but you may find that the two screws holding it onto the ram are very tight. I couldn't repeat the measurements Ruger described, so I found the right shim by trial and error; all it took was the 0.006" shim. Now the shell plate is nearly rock solid and the problems I noted earlier seem to have disappeared. Cool!
Click to expand...
 
Awesome... I'm glad that information helped.

I found that the the shell plates vary in thickness from plate to plate. If you change to a different caliber shell plate, you may find that it rubs on the subplate. Therefore, you may have to reduce the thickness of your shim a few thousands to accommodate the difference among all your shell plates.

Happy shooting!
 
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