1911's - are they THAT finicky?

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ClickClickD'oh said:
...Counter point to my counterpoint: I once had a fine chat with the nice gentlemen that run the DPS range here in Texas. They told me the two guns they see go down the most often are 1911s and Glocks. Of course, that's just because those are the two guns they see the most of.
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Precisely. I used to work as a mechanic at a Mercedes dealer. I saw nothing but broken Mercedes Benzes all day.
 
Generally speaking, quality M1911's that I have worked with worked fine with 230 FMJ ammunition. Depending on the designer HP bullet used, some of them have had problems feeding them, some have not.

If they do not shoot designed HP/self defense bullets, a little TLC from a knowledgable base ay correct the problem. Corrections are not difficult, but you do have to know what you are doing.

I'm happy shooting 230 RN bullets and not concerned that expansion is not happening. A 230 grain, slow moving bullets packs a pretty good whollop on its own.

A little knowledgable TLC has made bargain priced M1911's such as my Auto Ordinance M1911 reliably with 230RN bullet ammunition. Ultimately, I installed a used Colt barrel in my Auto Ordinance pistol and it became a tack driver.

I've not had issues with 9mm/38 caliber M1911's. I had one 38 Super 1911 that would shoot 158 grain SWC with great accuracy. It had an old 38 Super barrel that headspace on the rim. When I replaced the barrel with a "headspace" on the case mouth barrel, it no longer would shoot the 158 SWC bullets.

The gun currently has a 38 Special barrel in it. I have several 38 Super M1911's and a couple 9x19 M1911's. They all shoot the appropriate ammunition without issue.

I have 17 different M1911's. chambered in 22 RF, 38 Super, 38/45 Clerke, 9x19, 38 Super, 357 SIG, 40 S&W and 45 ACP. Several have been built from the frame up.
 
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A 1911 made to milspec standards will run 100% with hardball. If you want more from it, you may not be satisfied with a milspec pistol. But don't blame St. John the Designer if your pistol's maker's mods affect its reliability.
 
Col. Harrumph said:
A 1911 made to milspec standards will run 100% with hardball. If you want more from it, you may not be satisfied with a milspec pistol. But don't blame St. John the Designer if your pistol's maker's mods affect its reliability.
Click to expand...

^beat me to it...
 
I have had and used various 1911`s for 50 years.
The best is my current Rock Island and ATI full size and officer models.
Like others said use good mags. For me, chip McCormack and Kimber mags work the best.
The worst one I had was issued to me in 67, an old rattling, Colt, never worked and I got it replaced most rickey tick!
 
As has been implied...

I suspect that a run-of-the-mill 1911 made to slightly loose tolerances will be as reliable as any other average pistol.

I've actually read more complaints about more expensive 1911's with tight tolerances.

None of my 1911's has been expensive. Trying be more specific, memory-wise, I have had four inexpensive ones that worked 100% from Day One. Two I bought NiB and two I bought used. The other was a lemon from the factory that has worked fine since they fixed it.

I also have several "1911-related" pistols that work fine, but each one is a slight variant rather than a genuine 1911.

Also as others have said, I suspect that thorough cleaning and lube, plus good magazines, is at least partly responsible for my good experiences.
 
Triggernosis said:
I mentioned to a friend of mine, who is a pistol and CC instructor, that I was interested in getting myself a 1911. He proceeded to tell me how finicky they are and how most need some work in order to be reliable with hollow-point ammo.
Are 1911's generally that persnickety?
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In a nutshell: No.

To put it another way, do you REALLY believe that any handgun design would survive for more than a century, especially in such a competitive market, if it really WERE "that persnickety"?
 
1911 is a design, not a specific manufacturers model like a Smith & Wesson M&P or a Glock 17. S&W makes S&W pistols and revolvers; Glock makes Glock 17 pistols.

There are however dozens of companies that make 1911 pistols and have been making them for over 100 years. The 1911 design has morphed over the years. A Colt made today is different than a Colt made in 1925. A Colt 1911 made today isn't the same gun as a Kimber 1911 made today. Most of the smaller parts and springs are made by outside vendors who sell them to manufacturers and that quality can vary as well as the specs. 1911 magazines are also made by multiple manufacturers and one that works 100% in my pistol may not work in yours.

When you buy a 1911 today the parts will come from multiple manufacturers and often from multiple countries. When everything fits it works. When they don't it often needs some tweaking. To borrow a line from Forrest Gump, buying a 1911 is like opening a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get. This is why you get so many different opinions on 1911. Everybody didn't get the same gun. When you buy a Glock, or a Sig, or a S&W, everybody gets the same gun.

To put it another way, do you REALLY believe that any handgun design would survive for more than a century, especially in such a competitive market, if it really WERE "that persnickety"?
Click to expand...

People do it all the time. The 1911, Harley Davidson motorcycles, and Jeep Wranglers are iconic American products. All 3 have been highly problematic over the years, yet they continue to sell to people who want the illusion of owning an American icon. Almost nobody actually uses a 1911 for what it was designed for. People just want to say they have one. Most manufacturers have figured that out and build guns that are just good enough to meet the low standards of most of their customers. There are the high end 1911's that are built for actual use, but they ain't cheap.
 
jmr40 said:
There are the high end 1911's that are built for actual use, but they ain't cheap.
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I have the odd notion that if someone had a Rock Island, a Dan Wesson and a giant pile of ammunition, neither gun would give up before the shooter did. The cost of a gun doesn't necessarily have any impact on the guns ability to go boom when needed, especially in an era where milling some fancy lines in the slide adds a couple of hundred dollars to the price of a gun.
 
On a 1918 Colt version... only ball ammo. On a much newer version (1990?) no problems. With my neighbors 9mm target Kimber... very finicky about the brand of ammo.
 
I have a couple of Rock Island 1911 pistols; full size tactical and compact. The only time that I have had problems with either one feed hollow points was magazine related. It seems that I got a couple of counterfeit Colt magazines that just flat won't feed any hollow point. From what I could tell on the counterfeits is that the follower presents the bullet at a flatter angle than the other magazines. The factory magazines along with the MecGar and McCormick magazines feed everything.
 
1911's - are they THAT finicky?

No. Get a 1911 (and maybe a new friend who doesn't offer opinions when he doesn't know what he doesn't know).

I've owned, since the early '70s, at least 31 or 32 1911s (I'm probably forgetting about at least a couple, too).

I've had two that had minor problems, one early Springfield Armory (the pre-Mil Spec) produced around 1991 that horribly dinged the case mouths (cases hit the wall of the old-style ejection port) of every type of ammo used upon ejection; easily fixed by a light radius on the bottom of the extractor hook and barely breaking the top corner - stopped a really forceful 3 o'clock ejection and created a nice, consistent 2 o'clock ejection. Other problem pistol was a Colt Series 70 repro that suffered from occasion FTEs, replacing the stock extractor with an Ed Brown and lightly tuning it immediately solved the issue.

My point is, for almost every problem one may encounter with a newly-acquired 1911, there is almost always a relatively simple and inexpensive fix. I used to make fun of my Harley-riding buddies when I rode rice-burners because they always seemed to be having to do maintenance on 'em, until I finally swallowed the Kool-Aide and realized that being able to keep my stuff going, being able to identify, repair and solve problems of mechanical things actually fostered more pride of ownership and general self-confidence. I have another friend who routinely buys high-end guns, and if he has one minor malfunction with a new firearm, doesn't even bother to troubleshoot, he's down to the gun shop trading it in on something else.

If you don't want to learn how a firearm actually operates, and how to keep it running, or don't enjoy doing maintenance on your own stuff, buy a Glock.
 
jmr40 said:
1911 is a design, not a specific manufacturers model like a Smith & Wesson M&P or a Glock 17. S&W makes S&W pistols and revolvers; Glock makes Glock 17 pistols.

There are however dozens of companies that make 1911 pistols and have been making them for over 100 years. The 1911 design has morphed over the years. A Colt made today is different than a Colt made in 1925. A Colt 1911 made today isn't the same gun as a Kimber 1911 made today. Most of the smaller parts and springs are made by outside vendors who sell them to manufacturers and that quality can vary as well as the specs. 1911 magazines are also made by multiple manufacturers and one that works 100% in my pistol may not work in yours.

When you buy a 1911 today the parts will come from multiple manufacturers and often from multiple countries. When everything fits it works. When they don't it often needs some tweaking. To borrow a line from Forrest Gump, buying a 1911 is like opening a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get. This is why you get so many different opinions on 1911. Everybody didn't get the same gun. When you buy a Glock, or a Sig, or a S&W, everybody gets the same gun.
.
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Well this certainly sounds like the definition of finicky to me. ;)
 
I don't care for 1911s myself. I just don't care for how they feel, but I seriously doubt that any 1911 made in recent years are finicky.
If they were, would they be as popular as they are?
 
Triggernosis said:
I mentioned to a friend of mine, who is a pistol and CC instructor, that I was interested in getting myself a 1911. He proceeded to tell me how finicky they are and how most need some work in order to be reliable with hollow-point ammo.
Are 1911's generally that persnickety?
Click to expand...
No. They are as close to 100% reliable as possible as they were originally designed.
 
The only serious 45 1911 I owned (kimber) was very picky about ammo type.
It never ran 100% with hollowpoints.
I've owned 2 9mm's and 2 38 Super 1911s and they were not picky at all.
My current 9mm 1911 will feed anything.
 
The first 1911 I bought was an Auto Ordnance Mil-spec 1911A1 in 1988. The mag that came with it was trash. I bought new mags and it ran great with ball ammo and a few different hollow points.
Then I started shootings IPSC and Steel Challenge matches. My gun didn’t care for the 200 gr LSWC bullets. After a little work it would feed empty cases from the magazine.
A7CFA0F6-F666-47C1-8294-B104A5978D90.jpeg

I’ve bought a few other 1911’s over the years and all have ran fine. I have a Kimber Custom II that I have yet to find ammo that it won’t feed.
742F3507-14E2-43D7-8A86-E6FB536E10E1.jpeg
I would say that your friend knows little about 1911’s.
 
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jmr40 said:
1911 is a design, not a specific manufacturers model like a Smith & Wesson M&P or a Glock 17. S&W makes S&W pistols and revolvers; Glock makes Glock 17 pistols.

There are however dozens of companies that make 1911 pistols and have been making them for over 100 years. The 1911 design has morphed over the years. A Colt made today is different than a Colt made in 1925. A Colt 1911 made today isn't the same gun as a Kimber 1911 made today. Most of the smaller parts and springs are made by outside vendors who sell them to manufacturers and that quality can vary as well as the specs. 1911 magazines are also made by multiple manufacturers and one that works 100% in my pistol may not work in yours.

When you buy a 1911 today the parts will come from multiple manufacturers and often from multiple countries. When everything fits it works. When they don't it often needs some tweaking. To borrow a line from Forrest Gump, buying a 1911 is like opening a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get. This is why you get so many different opinions on 1911. Everybody didn't get the same gun. When you buy a Glock, or a Sig, or a S&W, everybody gets the same gun.



People do it all the time. The 1911, Harley Davidson motorcycles, and Jeep Wranglers are iconic American products. All 3 have been highly problematic over the years, yet they continue to sell to people who want the illusion of owning an American icon. Almost nobody actually uses a 1911 for what it was designed for. People just want to say they have one. Most manufacturers have figured that out and build guns that are just good enough to meet the low standards of most of their customers. There are the high end 1911's that are built for actual use, but they ain't cheap.
Click to expand...

You have some valid points.

However, I submit the problem still isn't with the 1911, regardless of which 1911 design modifications we're talking about in whatever year...it's the companies responsible for making them.

If people buy Company X model 1911s and have problems with it, but they buy Company Y model 1911s and do not, then the problem is not the 1911...it's the company producing them.

And blaming the problem on parts made by outside vendors which then provide them to the manufacturers is not correct. The company producing the final product is responsible for providing the specifications to the outside vendors AND they're also responsible for verifying the material they get in return is, in fact, in accordance with the specifications provided. If they're not doing this, then they're shifting the blame to someone else for something they should be doing in the first place.

In the end, it's really no different than buying a used 1911 from Dremel Dave, who insists on applying his tribal knowledge of the 1911 by "polishing" the feed ramp and mucking around with the trigger pull, then blaming the 1911 itself for the feed problems and cr*ppy trigger pull.
 
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