What is safe to shoot out of an old full choke 12ga

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Tyras

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I have a very old single shot smooth bore 12 gauge with a full choke. The gun is a Riverside Arms Co likely from 1915 with a 30 inch barrel. I've been restoring it as it was in poor condition and heavily rusted yet still functioning.

The other week I put it through its paces with some Winchester Super Target loads and some Hornady 00 low recoil buck. Both functioned well but the buck tended to kick the break action open every few shots. I have some Federal 6 and 8 Game Load which should run fine as they are low brass shot.

I know you can't shoot slugs through a full choke and I suspect a rifled slug would blow up this old gun and anything high brass would do the same.

Just wondering what other rounds I can put through it without some modification as my local range doesn't let people shoot shot just slugs and I have to take a 3 hour drive to an outdoor range to shoot shot.
 
Jim Watson said:
If it is kicking open - not uncommon with a well worn break action, Elmer Keith had an Ithaca that would "self open" - I would clean it up and hang it on the wall.
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I've found she only kicks open with buck. She runs shot decently. I may look for other parts to restore her. Kinda a waste cuz she's not worth much but restoring guns and using them is a joy of mine.
 
Tyras said:
I know you can't shoot slugs through a full choke
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Not true, just a myth, the "rifled" slugs or foster style swage down as they go through the choke, they really don't impart much spin to the projectile. The rifling of the slug is very soft and squishes (swages) down to fit the choke. Probably more deer have been taken with old shotguns using full and modified chokes with slugs than any other lesser choke. I would not recommend shooting slugs through turkey or extra full chokes, that may blow them out.

As for being safe to shoot through a 100 year old gun that is well worn, they will probably have the same recoil as your buckshot loads
 
I have an old Remington SS from 1910. As a black powder enthusiast I have what I need to load 12 gage black powder loads. Which is to say a box cutter, a wooden dowel and can of 2 or 3 f black powder. A hoot to shoot and an attention getter.Lots of YouTube videos on the subject.
Just a suggestion.
 
whughett said:
I have an old Remington SS from 1910. As a black powder enthusiast I have what I need to load 12 gage black powder loads. Which is to say a box cutter, a wooden dowel and can of 2 or 3 f black powder. A hoot to shoot and an attention getter.Lots of YouTube videos on the subject.
Just a suggestion.
Click to expand...

I don't know how this relates to the post at all..
 
You ask for suggestions on what you could shoot thru an old 12 gage shot gun. Or so I thought. Must have misread the thread.

Blackpowder loaded shot shells are generally considered safe to shoot in older shot guns. Said shells can be bought or hand loaded with basic tools.
 
I'm pretty sure it's not a good idea to use steel shot in these older barrels. I have a Sweet Sixteen and am A-5 light 12 gauge Browning that are late 1960 era gun's and was advised that lead or Bismuth is fine, but steel is to hard on the steel barrel's of that era. I would think a definite NO on a black powder gun.
 
If your not going to shoot it a lot you could absolutely load your own with nothing more than a little shot, black powder (or substitute) and come cardboard discs which are easily bought or made yourself. That’s exactly what I’m doing for 16ga. I bought a roll crimp tool on eBay for like $13 and that was by far the most expensive chunk of my purchasing since I am using a few pounds of shot from some old shells that got wet. Doing this will let you shoot just about anything you want to out of it with nothing to worry about on the pressure topic.
 
In 1915 there were still some damascus steel barrels being made. If that is the case here it is best to retire the old gun. Technically it should be safe with black powder loads or very lightly loaded smokeless powder shells. But unless there is some compelling reason I'd not do so.

If the gun is made with modern steel then standard slugs won't hurt it. Steel shot will. I'd still stay with the lower powered shells.

I have an old rabbit ear 20ga double of that vintage that belonged to my great grandfather. I started hunting with it and put quite a few shells through it before discovering it had damascus barrels. The gun hasn't been shot since the 1970's. I'd really like for my son and grandkids to be able to shoot the gun going back 6 generations. But it isn't worth the risk. Just because I got lucky shooting it as a kid doesn't mean it won't come apart with the next shell.
 
WestKentucky said:
If your not going to shoot it a lot you could absolutely load your own with nothing more than a little shot, black powder (or substitute) and come cardboard discs which are easily bought or made yourself. That’s exactly what I’m doing for 16ga. I bought a roll crimp tool on eBay for like $13 and that was by far the most expensive chunk of my purchasing since I am using a few pounds of shot from some old shells that got wet. Doing this will let you shoot just about anything you want to out of it with nothing to worry about on the pressure topic.
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Probably would but I'm already reloading 223 9mm and 38spl. Don't have much time for a cal I don't use often and it seems very time consuming.
 
jmr40 said:
In 1915 there were still some damascus steel barrels being made. If that is the case here it is best to retire the old gun. Technically it should be safe with black powder loads or very lightly loaded smokeless powder shells. But unless there is some compelling reason I'd not do so.

If the gun is made with modern steel then standard slugs won't hurt it. Steel shot will. I'd still stay with the lower powered shells.

I have an old rabbit ear 20ga double of that vintage that belonged to my great grandfather. I started hunting with it and put quite a few shells through it before discovering it had damascus barrels. The gun hasn't been shot since the 1970's. I'd really like for my son and grandkids to be able to shoot the gun going back 6 generations. But it isn't worth the risk. Just because I got lucky shooting it as a kid doesn't mean it won't come apart with the next shell.
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Definitely not Damascus.

Not sure how amazing the steel is but definitely not Damascus. If it was I'd restore it, remove the pin and then hang it on my wall forever.
 
1KPerDay said:
who told you that?
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That's what I seen all over the net and from seasoned shooters. Said you cannae shoot slugs through a full choke.

And the amount of pressure of forcing a slug through that barrel would probably destroy it. It bucks open on occasion with low recoil buckshot
 
Tyras said:
That's what I seen all over the net and from seasoned shooters. Said you cannae shoot slugs through a full choke.

And the amount of pressure of forcing a slug through that barrel would probably destroy it. It bucks open on occasion with low recoil buckshot
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Well they're wrong... unless we're talking hardened, brenneke-type non-rifled slugs. Soft lead foster-type "rifled" slugs are specifically built to swage down through chokes. That's why the "rifling" exists. It's not to spin the projectile. It's slanted so the lead has somewhere to go (front to back) as it swages through a choke.
 
1KPerDay said:
Well they're wrong... unless we're talking hardened, brenneke-type non-rifled slugs. Soft lead foster-type "rifled" slugs are specifically built to swage down through chokes. That's why the "rifling" exists. It's not to spin the projectile. It's slanted so the lead has somewhere to go (front to back) as it swages through a choke.
Click to expand...

I asked someone at a shop about that. Said it works but doesn't work well in a smooth bore. That true?
 
Tyras said:
I have a very old single shot smooth bore 12 gauge with a full choke. The gun is a Riverside Arms Co likely from 1915 with a 30 inch barrel. I've been restoring it as it was in poor condition and heavily rusted yet still functioning.

The other week I put it through its paces with some Winchester Super Target loads and some Hornady 00 low recoil buck. Both functioned well but the buck tended to kick the break action open every few shots. I have some Federal 6 and 8 Game Load which should run fine as they are low brass shot.

I know you can't shoot slugs through a full choke and I suspect a rifled slug would blow up this old gun and anything high brass would do the same.

Just wondering what other rounds I can put through it without some modification as my local range doesn't let people shoot shot just slugs and I have to take a 3 hour drive to an outdoor range to shoot shot.
Click to expand...
Are you sure it is chambered for 2-3/4" modern shells? Many older guns from that era were not; they were chambered for 2-1/2 or 2-9/16" ammo, usually done with a roll crimp. Remember that shell length is the fired length, not the unfired length which means that a 2-3/4" will chamber in a 2-1/2" gun BUT when the crimp opens up into the forcing cone, the pressures can seriously spike and that can get dangerous.
If you have access to a gunsmith who actually knows old guns (NOT a Glock parts changer), have them check it out. A gun opening upon firing is NOT safe
 
George P said:
Are you sure it is chambered for 2-3/4" modern shells? Many older guns from that era were not; they were chambered for 2-1/2 or 2-9/16" ammo, usually done with a roll crimp. Remember that shell length is the fired length, not the unfired length which means that a 2-3/4" will chamber in a 2-1/2" gun BUT when the crimp opens up into the forcing cone, the pressures can seriously spike and that can get dangerous.
If you have access to a gunsmith who actually knows old guns (NOT a Glock parts changer), have them check it out. A gun opening upon firing is NOT safe
Click to expand...

Handled the 2 3/4 Winchester super target just fine. Only the buck kicked it open. Looking in to getting a new shotty so I can hang it on my wall.
 
Tyras said:
I asked someone at a shop about that. Said it works but doesn't work well in a smooth bore. That true?
Click to expand...
What works? the rifling? They say the rifling works if you shoot it out of a rifled barrel? Uh, that would be the rifling in the barrel doing the work. Foster slugs are designed and meant to fly like badminton shuttlecocks. center of gravity forward, drag behind to stabilize. They actually usually fly straighter if you DON'T shoot them out of rifled barrels.

Get a better shop. ;)
 
1KPerDay said:
What works? the rifling? They say the rifling works if you shoot it out of a rifled barrel? Uh, that would be the rifling in the barrel doing the work. Foster slugs are designed and meant to fly like badminton shuttlecocks. center of gravity forward, drag behind to stabilize. They actually usually fly straighter if you DON'T shoot them out of rifled barrels.

Get a better shop. ;)
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They said rifled slugs don't function correctly out of a smooth bore.

Look I don't know anything about shotguns. Out of the 100s of guns I've shot and owned I have used a shotgun all of never before this one. So I know literally nothing. I'm starting to think these shopkeepers are retarded though...
 
Tyras said:
They said rifled slugs don't function correctly out of a smooth bore.

Look I don't know anything about shotguns. ...
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Neither do your shop owners, apparently. If they said or meant SABOT slugs, then that’s correct. They don’t function correctly out of smoothbores. Sabots are intended to be fired from rifled barrels.

But your run of the mill foster-type 1 oz. rifled lead slugs are intended to be fired from smoothbore shotgun barrels.
 
Tyras said:
Handled the 2 3/4 Winchester super target just fine. Only the buck kicked it open. Looking in to getting a new shotty so I can hang it on my wall.
Click to expand...
Just because it "handled it" does NOT mean it was the proper ammo
 
Tyras said:
I've found she only kicks open with buck. She runs shot decently. I may look for other parts to restore her. Kinda a waste cuz she's not worth much but restoring guns and using them is a joy of mine.
Click to expand...
RST reduced loads or hang it on the wall. The only other option would be to have a gunsmith rebuild the locking system, which would cost far more than the gun is worth.

http://www.rstshells.com/

This is about what you want:
http://www.rstshells.com/store/p/109-12-Ga-2-1/2-Lite-Roll-Crimped-Vel-1150-1-1/16-oz-Load-Box.aspx
 
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