Berry’s “Hollow Base Flat Point” Bullets

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jski

jski

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Just noticed these on Brownell’s and Midway’s websites. I’m looking for 45 Colt bullets. I read these are good for accurate, low velocity rounds. Sounds like a 45 Colt.

Of course, I immediately thought of one thing: obturation

Opinions?
 
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What about the hollow base bullets used in
a .45 Colt? Much of that thread is concerned about the 9mm. Very different.
 
They will work just fine, but you'll have to use a taper crimp. Some people use a roll crimp die on them, but your brass better be all the same length and adjust it for a very light crimp. It's just much easier to taper crimp, Lee sells one for about $13.

Here is a pic of a taper crimp on a .44 Spl, I have done this in .45 Colt with plated bullets, I just don't have a pic.
Medium Taper Crimp on an X-Treme 200 Gr FP in .44 Spl Pic 1.JPG
Medium Taper Crimp on an X-Treme 200 Gr FP in .44 Spl Pic 2.JPG
 
As for obturation my opinion remains the same as in the other thread.

I personally don’t think these bullets obturate any more due to the hollow base than any other bullet does. The plating is thick and the hollow base is a small cavity relative to the size of the bullet. I think any advantage is in the length of the bearing surface and possibly increased internal volume to reduce pressure. Although you may have to see them deeper due to a potentially longer bullet design. So it may be a wash.
 
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I have been using them for a long time for both the 9mm and the 45acp. Biggest drawback I can see is that these bullets do not have a cannalure crimp groove and too heavy a roll crimp can damage the plating. In semi-autos they work wonderfully.
 
Walk- Are those rounds you pictured a little low on the cannelure groove? Or is the cannelure on 44 longer than the 223?
 
The lead in those Berry’s bullets is pretty soft.

Single digit BHN?
 
gifbohane said:
Walk- Are those rounds you pictured a little low on the cannelure groove? Or is the cannelure on 44 longer than the 223?
Click to expand...
Well, since it isn't a real cannelure, just roll marks, there isn't a deepest spot, and it's a taper crimp anyway, so it isn't real important to get the case mouth in the middle.
 
As to obturation, they are soft, and there is a hollow, so surely it does so easier than a solid plated bullet of the same hardness/plating, but does it matter? Probably not. Needed? Doubtful. I think it is there simply to gain more bearing surface.
 
If people would swage their own bullets they'd have a different opinion of how/if a hb bullet makes any difference to obturation. Same goes for casting their own hb bullets.

Something like this is caveman simple to test/prove just how good these hb bullets obturate compared to their solid based counterparts.

At the end of the day a lot of things come into play for people to have the yeah/nay answers. Things like the hb bullets being used in a single chambered firearm compared to a 6 shooter. Distance is always the great equalizer, reality shows up on the 50yd line and beyond. Not so much @ 7yds or 50ft. Add into the mix the accuracy of the firearm being used and the nut behind the wheel, mixed brass, reloaders skillsets, etc.

Anyway, It's simple enough to test just how good/bad a hb is. Anyone that has ever made their own custom swaging dies/swaged their own bullets for a specific firearm as done this testing.​
 
If the HB isn't perfectly centered it would ruin any chance at accuracy that a longer bearing surface may improve.
 
Yes, and why they use the best jackets to make match bullets. The lead inside needs to be as perfectly centered as possible.
 
Walkalong said:
If the HB isn't perfectly centered it would ruin any chance at accuracy that a longer bearing surface may improve.
Click to expand...

Actually there's a lot of wiggle room there. Take a kids top and spin it you'll see what I'm talking about. Accuracy will deteriorate faster with the hb being off center. How much depends on the force applied (load pressure) to it along with the centrifugal forces exerted on it coupled with alloy, ect.

Years ago I was swaging/testing different jacketed hp's for the 357's. Never did like the light +/- 125gr bullets and use/make 150gr to 170gr hp's for them. The disadvantage of the heavier bullets was penetration in houses/apartments/etc. Did a lot of testing with different alloys and hp shapes/designs/depths/alloys. One of the things I tested that was extremely affective in stopping penetration along with making a hp that was flat out mid-evil on anything it hit. I took the hp cavity and offset it to 1 side centered at the top and angling to the jacket at the base. Same hp size/cavity length as the centered hp, just canted. The end result was a hp that got 30%+/- less penetration while maintaining accuracy out to 25yds in the 1200fps to 1450fps range.

I have found that the shallower the hb the more accuracy is affected by being off center. Lyman made a round hb pin the cast a shallow hb and it's a lot touchier than a long round or v shaped hb. Any time I made hb pins for swaging bullets I always used a rounded tapered v shaped pin. similar to the raphine style hb pins his molds were known for.
cJlfXqH.jpg

I like to use this home made hb pin in the lyman 429422 hb swc molds instead of their short round pins. It takes a little more weight out of the bullet but is less affected by off center casts and accuracy.
rVx5uvQ.jpg

At the end of the day all hb cavities are not created equal. Berry's hb bullets are of excellent design that will work in a wide range of firearms.
​
 
When my dog jumped up and helped me scramble the 2 batches of newly loaded 9mm that I held in my hands (200 rounds all over the floor) I was unable to sort them out.
1 batch was Berry's 124 gn plated flat base, the other batch was Berry's 124 gn hollow base, loaded to the same specs. Necessarily, they got mixed up. When I shot them, I could not perceive any difference in POI or accuracy.
Of course, any variables could have been concealed by my shooting.
 
jski said:
I read these are good for accurate, low velocity rounds.
Click to expand...

I have shot hundreds of thousands of Berry's plated bullets in a number of different calibers as well as other manufactures of plated bullets. I have never found any plated bullet to have better accuracy than a good jacketed bullet, even a good cast bullet for that matter.

I used them because they were cheaper than jacketed and cleaner than cast, so I didn't mind taking a little hit in accuracy as they were accurate enough for the intended use.
 
With much less experience I have come to the same conclusion as jmorris above.

I use plated because I can load them slower than jacketed for less recoil and they are some cheaper. I can not decide whether I like the plated or the high tech coated bullets best. Have to test a thousand each to decide, I guess. Right now I shoot plated in .357 and coated in .41 mag because I like the suppliers, Berrys and Bayou and Acme.

I shoot the HB in 9mm in my Blackhawk with the hope that it works better. But I got my best accuracy from factory jacketed loads.
 
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