To Dillon or not to Dillon

whughett · Jun 30, 2020

Ignorance is bliss. I started with the RL 550 in 1982 when it was the Cats meow of the progressives now in 2020 it’s still pumping out a variety of calibers. It was completely rebuilt by Dillon in 2015 or there abouts for the cost of shipping the original back to them. I don’t however shoot competitive, I load in 500 round batches 6 pistol caliber and restock when getting low.

packetloss · Jun 30, 2020

luzyfuerza said:
You don't need this. That puts you $35.49 closer to a 750.

Jump on this if you can:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-Dillo...358?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10#viTabs_0

That's actually not a very good deal at the current bid and presumably it will go higher. Shipping is $65 which at the current bid, puts it up to $600 which is way too close to just buying a new 750. Ebay also "collects" tax and there are places you can order a new 750 that won't collect tax and will ship for a much more reasonable amount. The auction might actually end up costing more than new.

rkittine · Jun 30, 2020

I have tried all the hand decapping tools and this is my favorite.

https://harveydeprimer.com/

Beautiful set up with all those heads for your Dillon. I have two presses set up for volume loading of one caliber and bullet type each. One for .38 WC and one for .32 S&W Long WC, both Start Progessives, which I love, but change over is a nightmare.

Bob

GE-Mini-Gun · Jun 30, 2020

While they aren’t exactly growing on trees you can get used 650’s loaded out pretty good for under $800 if you look around…granted you have to jump when they come up, but they are out there for that price. Couple months back there was one listed on a site that for the life of me I cannot remember for $750, casefeeder, extra toolheads, some dies, stand, roller handle and some other stuff…I almost purchased but don’t need three and since reading this thread I’ve been trying to remember where I spotted it and I’m drawing a blank. Others have mentioned getting the 750 then the casefeeder later, not sure I’d do that as the 750 w/o the feeder is a very expensive 550…save the money and get both. I loaded 3k worth of 9mm in March in just under 3 hrs and that wasn’t even going fast…the press just runs. Bunch of stuff I’d skip on purchasing as over 40 years of loading, I’ve realized they do not add anything to the process and in some cases add time or additional steps, but that’s my opinion. Good luck.

TackticalZacktical · Jun 30, 2020

GE-Mini-Gun said:
While they aren’t exactly growing on trees you can get used 650’s loaded out pretty good for under $800 if you look around…granted you have to jump when they come up, but they are out there for that price. Couple months back there was one listed on a site that for the life of me I cannot remember for $750, casefeeder, extra toolheads, some dies, stand, roller handle and some other stuff…I almost purchased but don’t need three and since reading this thread I’ve been trying to remember where I spotted it and I’m drawing a blank. Others have mentioned getting the 750 then the casefeeder later, not sure I’d do that as the 750 w/o the feeder is a very expensive 550…save the money and get both. I loaded 3k worth of 9mm in March in just under 3 hrs and that wasn’t even going fast…the press just runs. Bunch of stuff I’d skip on purchasing as over 40 years of loading, I’ve realized they do not add anything to the process and in some cases add time or additional steps, but that’s my opinion. Good luck.

I’ll start looking for used 650s! Thank you for the advice. Can you elaborate a bit more on the things that you find only add time and additional steps? Are you talking about depriming separately on a single stage prior to tumbling?

jmorris · Jun 30, 2020

TackticalZacktical said:
Can you elaborate a bit more on the things that you find only add time and additional steps? Are you talking about depriming separately on a single stage prior to tumbling?

That would be one for sure. Once a progressive is full you get one loaded round per pull. Running them all through a single stage would, at the very least, double the time and work needed per round loaded.

GE-Mini-Gun · Jun 30, 2020

Yes. No need to deprime in a separate process…as Morris mentioned once the stations are full you get a loaded round every pull of the handle. I’ve also found out its better the tumble with primer in the case, no need to worry about having a piece of media in the pocket.

rskent · Jun 30, 2020

TackticalZacktical said:
I shoot USPSA and 3-gun matches religiously, and I’m looking to reload bulk 9mm and then add in .223 sometime in the future.

If you shoot USPSA, Dillon. I would think you would want an auto progressive. Skip the 550.

packetloss · Jun 30, 2020

GE-Mini-Gun said:
Yes. No need to deprime in a separate process…as Morris mentioned once the stations are full you get a loaded round every pull of the handle. I’ve also found out its better the tumble with primer in the case, no need to worry about having a piece of media in the pocket.

Exactly. For loading lots of pistol rounds, you really don't want to hand deprime or have to deprime as a separate step.

I will say that I have had some brass where either the primers corroded or something got on them and a significant amount were not de-priming with one hit. There were also some CBC brass mixed in and I ended up with some loaded rounds with the old primer still on them so at that point I just resized and deprimed the rest of those cases and reamed the pockets on any CBC brass.

Now that that is done, I will just be tumbling the brass with steel pins before sizing/de-priming and then running them through as is. As others have noted, you can pretty much do about 1000 rounds per hour on a 750 with a case feeder. Bullet feeder helps but doesn't save anywhere near as much time as the case feeder.

rkittine · Jun 30, 2020

I only like to de-prime in advance is to get the the primer pockets cleaned out during the tumbling and before reloading.

Bob

rfwobbly · Jun 30, 2020

TackticalZacktical said:
I would love a 750, but the price difference ($614 vs $1,055 with a case feeder) is a little to steep for me, especially for a first press. Thankfully, I know that these presses retain their value because I’ve been shopping for used 550s for a month now!

Here's two insights you may not have considered....

1. The next step up from a bare 550 is a bare 650/750. But the next step up from there is to add a case feeder to the 650/750. Case feeders don't really work on a 550, so by the time you need a case feeder, you're then looking at the mandatory upgrade to 650/750 with case feeder.

2. The cost to convert from the 550 to the 650/750 with case feeder is far more, than the cost to start with the basic 650/750 and add a case feeder down the line. This because while the presses hold their value, any extra Tool Heads and Caliber Conversion Kits you may have acquired really don't.

Example: When I moved from 550 to 650, I had acquired 8 caliber setups slowly over 8 years. But converting presses required 8 new Tool Heads at $34 ea ($272 total) and 8 Caliber Conv Kits at $85 ea ($680 total). That was an additional cost of $950 simply to use the dies I already owned. The difference between the base 550 and base 650/750 is less than $200. If I had gone 650 to start, and then acquired those same pieces over the same time I would have saved over $750.

It's an expensive choice, but it's even more expensive to make the wrong choice !!

TackticalZacktical · Jun 30, 2020

rfwobbly said:
Here's two insights you may not have considered....

1. The next step up from a bare 550 is a bare 650/750. But the next step up from there is to add a case feeder to the 650/750. Case feeders don't really work on a 550, so by the time you need a case feeder, you're then looking at the mandatory upgrade to 650/750 with case feeder.

2. The cost to convert from the 550 to the 650/750 with case feeder is far more, than the cost to start with the basic 650/750 and add a case feeder down the line. This because while the presses hold their value, any extra Tool Heads and Caliber Conversion Kits you may have acquired really don't.

Example: When I moved from 550 to 650, I had acquired 8 caliber setups slowly over 8 years. But converting presses required 8 new Tool Heads at $34 ea ($272 total) and 8 Caliber Conv Kits at $85 ea ($680 total). That was an additional cost of $950 simply to use the dies I already owned. The difference between the base 550 and base 650/750 is less than $200. If I had gone 650 to start, and then acquired those same pieces over the same time I would have saved over $750.

It's an expensive choice, but it's even more expensive to make the wrong choice !!

Thank you for the advice. After reading all of the responses here and from other forums, it’s clear that the best choice for me is to get the 750. I shoot enough volume to justify it, and I don’t have to purchase the case feeder immediately. The only thing left for me to decide before I start ordering is my brass cleaning method, particularly, should I deprime before wet tumbling or should I tumble with primers, dry well, and load them up on the press? Accuracy isn’t a concern, but I don’t want to gunk up my press with potentially abrasive dirt and grit from depriming in the press.

Texas10mm · Jun 30, 2020

Squeaky clean brass doesn't run as well on a progressive as does just plain old tumbled brass. That little bit of carbon left in the case lubricates the powder funnel.

jmorris · Jun 30, 2020

but I don’t want to gunk up my press with potentially abrasive dirt and grit from depriming in the press.

You can do it anyway you like, your not going to hurt anything by doing it that way, except maybe an elbow or shoulder.

I am not sure how many matches I have won over the years or even exactly how many hundreds of thousands of rounds I have loaded in the last 35 years but I do know that most pistol rounds were loaded with one pass and I have yet to replace a part due to primer residue wearing anything out, on any press. I do oil likely more than necessary as well as blow everything off before I start and once I am finished. Same thing I do with my machine equipment that makes lots more debris.

TackticalZacktical · Jun 30, 2020

jmorris said:
You can do it anyway you like, your not going to hurt anything by doing it that way, except maybe an elbow or shoulder.

I am not sure how many matches I have won over the years or even exactly how many hundreds of thousands of rounds I have loaded in the last 35 years but I do know that most pistol rounds were loaded with one pass and I have yet to replace a part due to primer residue wearing anything out, on any press. I do oil likely more than necessary as well as blow everything off before I start and once I am finished. Same thing I do with my machine equipment that makes lots more debris.

Thanks for your input. What is your method for oiling your brass?

Texas10mm · Jun 30, 2020

Hornady One Shot for pistol brass and lanolin spray for rifle brass.

jmorris · Jun 30, 2020

TackticalZacktical said:
What is your method for oiling your brass?

I oil the press, lube the brass. I use Dillon lube (lanolin/alcohol), lay the brass on an old bankers box (cardboard) lid, so there is one layer of brass and give them 2-3 squirts in a fanning motion and shake the lid so it rolls the brass and dump them into the case feeder. The alcohol flashes off before they make it to the shell plate. If I am feeding them by hand, I let them sit for a minute before I start.

rabid wombat · Jun 30, 2020

Lubed brass even with carbides reduces the reloading effort. I use Hot Shot, but use what works for you. Each brass does not have to be perfectly lubed, but if 1 in 5 is perfect and the balance is dry - you will feel the difference. Follow the dirrections!

jmorris · Jun 30, 2020

Lubed brass even with carbides reduces the reloading effort.... you will feel the difference.

Yep, I loaded for decades not lubing straight walled brass because I didn’t have to. Finally a buddy said “just try it.” So, I did and like many others once I felt the difference never went back and that’s even with dry tumbled with polish brass that’s much slicker than wet.

packetloss · Jun 30, 2020

TackticalZacktical said:
Should I deprime before wet tumbling or should I tumble with primers, dry well, and load them up on the press? Accuracy isn’t a concern, but I don’t want to gunk up my press with potentially abrasive dirt and grit from depriming in the press.

As per the other thread. With Dirty outdoor range brass of unknown age follow the recommendation from the other thread and essentially restore it to new as a one time process. Once you have done that and are now reloading that same brass for the next time, don't deprime them before loading. Just wet tumble with pins to get the cases reasonably clean and you are good to go. You can also add car wash with wax to the mix and that will slightly lubricate the brass and keep it from tarnishing too. I typically don't lubricate the cases on subsequent runs.

mjsdwash · Jun 30, 2020

at the owner of a Lee Loadmaster in 9mm, I HIGHLY recommend you go Dillon. The lee actually works fine, and at a rate of 600 RPH, but I gave up on 223. I use it to size, deprime and prime cases.

kmw1954 · Jun 30, 2020

I am of the belief that people spend way too much time and energy washing and waxing their pistol brass to no other degree that "boy is it pretty", "Better than new". Never have I seen it proven that spotless/shiny brass shots any more accurate.

I short my brass by caliber and then I dump it into a plastic jar. In the jar I have dish soap, Lemi-shine and the hottest water my tap can provide. NO PINS. I shake the jar then let it sit, then shake some more. Do that for about 30 minutes then rinse in the hot tap water and then strain it off with an old colander. From there it goes into a Cabela's vibratory tumbler with corn cob and Cabela's lube.

Might not be "Shiny/New but it is clean and I don't have to ad any extra lube to it in order to run it thru my sizing die. Never had a primer not seat or go boom because I didn't wash my brass with SS Pins with the primers removed.

rfwobbly · Jul 1, 2020

TackticalZacktical said:
The only thing left for me to decide before I start ordering is my brass cleaning method, particularly, should I deprime before wet tumbling or should I tumble with primers, dry well, and load them up on the press? Accuracy isn’t a concern, but I don’t want to gunk up my press with potentially abrasive dirt and grit from depriming in the press.

Easy $10 solution. Which ever press you buy, order the Spent Primer Chute option from UniqueTek. These take the ejected primers plus all their smut, and route it all to an empty, sealed container under the bench. Large containers like 5 qt motor oil jugs, or 8 lb powder jugs then hold 9 to 12 months worth of reloading bi-product without you having to touch, breathe or worry about it.

http://uniquetek.com/

Bosn Ski · Jul 1, 2020

Bosn Ski said:
I emailed DAA about a collator, Saul replied:

We have kicked around this idea but frankly not worked on it yet.

The LEE solution looks cool in video, but feedback I have from users is that you need to accept quite a few upside down cases… which I don’t like.

Albeit it is a very cheap solution, which it would need to be. it is difficult to collate cases the right way up without a system that would cost like a case feeder, in which case, you would use a case feeder, not a mini tube system…
We will give it some thought…
————
I’m willing to accept a few upside down cases.

As of today I think the 3D printed option is the only reasonable option for the mini case feeder.

Go figure...!!? DAA just posted a video for their version of a bowl type collator for the Mini Case Feeder system "The Loader Bowl" for $20 USD.

ddc · Jul 1, 2020

TackticalZacktical said:
I shoot USPSA and 3-gun matches religiously, and I’m looking to reload bulk 9mm and then add in .223 sometime in the future.

I guess it kinda depends on what you mean by "bulk 9mm" but if it means what I think it means...

Please bypass the 550 and get either the 750 or a used 650.

PS: I put together a home made version of that 3d collator bowl using a frisbee, a PVC fitting from HomeDepot and some 36" plastic tubes I bought at a plastics store. It actually works very well. I get maybe one upside down case per 500 or thereabouts.

Edited to add: I went right by the fact that you decided on a 750.
I think you will be happy with that decision.
Good luck with your reloading journey.

To Dillon or not to Dillon

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