It's Testy Out There

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TarDevil

TarDevil

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We venture out to the grocery store, home improvement stores and occasional dinner at select restaurants. When I do, I wear my mask and will overtly distance myself from anyone not wearing one. Apparently the subject of masks has become a volatile trigger for confrontations, to the point that one Walmart customer drew his gun and pointed it in the direction of a mask-wearing customer.

I have been, and continue, pondering this specific scenario wondering what would be my response. I've been trained that a gun should never be drawn unless ready to use it and my assumption would be the same about someone unholstering at me. But I'd hate to think I shot someone over a face mask dispute (I'm not gonna confront anyone about masks, but I will dodge them like they're a festering plague).

Is this an OK discussion? How long do you wait when someone has a barrel pointed in your general direction? Do we assume the brandishing individual is just trying to get his point across with no intent to act further?

Like I said, it's a wild world out there.
 
Avoidance when possible is the best method of self defense. We're required to wear masks in most places in Illinois, and now many national chains are requiring them regardless of local or state laws. I will not confront someone who is not wearing a mask and since we need to wear them anyway, not wearing one isn't an issue. Carrying a gun is obviously a great responsibility. I'm rarely in confrontations, but if I am an apology to the person regardless of whether I'm right or not and de-escalating the situation seems smarter than the legal issues that follow me drawing my gun. Doing so is reserved for when I feel I or a loved one am in danger of great bodily harm or death.
 
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TomJ said:
Avoidance when possible is the best method of self defense. We're required to wear masks in most places in Illinois, and now many national chains are requiring them regardless of local or state laws. I will not confront someone who is not wearing a mask and since we need to wear them anyway, not wearing one isn't an issue. Carrying a gun is obviously a great responsibility. I'm rarely in confrontations, but if I am an apology to the person regardless of whether I'm right or not and de-escalating the situation seems smarter than the legal issues that follow me drawing my gun. Doing so is reserved for when I feet I or a loved one am in danger of great bodily harm or death.
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Same. I hate confrontations. I don't know what triggered the one televised but would assume the masked individual voiced displeasure toward the unmasked man. I'm hopeful - somewhat confident - I'll never be involved in such, but tempers are blindingly short these days.
 
When the muzzle is pointed at your vitals, there exists a probability leading to a certainty the bad guy will discharge the weapon. Are you going to analyze his intentions regarding brandishing vs firing? At this point in the chronology, survival surfaces. Remember, mind set, skills, tools ensure successful outcome.
 
I'm only drawing my firearm because it needs to be discharged into a threat that may cause me, or others in close proximity, serious harm or possibly death. IMHO, it should be that plain and simple for everyone who carries a firearm on their person. I'm not a fan of drawing a concealed firearm in public only to use as a show of force, and there sure does seem to be a lot of people doing it this way these days. A show of force protecting your homestead from roaming hoards of people looking to cause mayhem with a slinged-up AR or holstered open carry pistol is A-OK in my book.
 
No different than any other dispute that gets a gun drawn on you..

..and if someone does threaten your life to the point in which deadly-force self-defense is necessary and can be implemented, I certainly wouldn't be standing there thinking about what it's going to look like the dispute was originally over.
 
I think we've all seen enough instances where a firearm pointed at someone became an actual shooting when the person without a visible weapon makes a move that could be construed as reaching for a weapon. If someone has the drop on you, I'd say that would be an excellent time to be apologetic and slowly attempt to back away. The person who first brandishes a weapon will have to justify doing so. While you should be well within your rights to draw your own weapon to protect yourself and your loved ones, what are the chances you'd actually deploy it effectively before the person who's already drawn their weapon could get a couple rounds downrange?
 
I've had concealed carry for 25+ years.
If a criminal / psychopath has a barrel pointed at me, I'm playing catch up.
Imagine an attacker having 10 seconds or more of voluntary hostile action after receiving lethal (but non-cns) hits, cause they may.
 
Robert said:
This is not a mask issue, let's not get mired in the mask and pandemic debate. This is a self defense question. Stick to that.
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I understand the reasoning in avoiding this mask/no mask debate and appreciate that without context, we don't know if that had anything to do with why a weapon was drawn. Is it possible that with the fear and panic brought about by this current situation, a person could feel their health or well-being is threatened?
 
Howland937 said:
I think we've all seen enough instances where a firearm pointed at someone became an actual shooting when the person without a visible weapon makes a move that could be construed as reaching for a weapon. If someone has the drop on you, I'd say that would be an excellent time to be apologetic and slowly attempt to back away. The person who first brandishes a weapon will have to justify doing so. While you should be well within your rights to draw your own weapon to protect yourself and your loved ones, what are the chances you'd actually deploy it effectively before the person who's already drawn their weapon could get a couple rounds downrange?
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Mind set, skills, tools....... Skills garnered via training and practice demonstrate capabilities to respond to this threat and capitalize on the lag time of your adversary. If you’ve realized your effective level of response, you should be able to employ your firearm and discharge it before the bad guy can fire his. I don’t know your skill level, I only know mine, i.e., two rounds in .7 seconds from holster, but I practice regularly.
 
TarDevil said:
How long do you wait when someone has a barrel pointed in your general direction?
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It is more than simply difficult to draw on someone that has their weapon out and on you. There are hand to hand techniques that take time and effort to learn to disarm someone and there are techniques for deescalation, but they all take time and effort to learn and practice so they can be done calmly and effectively. Trying to draw on someone that already has a weapon out is the desperate last resort.
 
Terry Vincent said:
If you’ve realized your effective level of response, you should be able to employ your firearm and discharge it before the bad guy can fire his.
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Consider the kettle of fish in which you would be then.

I would prefer an approach that would dissuade or prevent him from shooting.
 
Case by case approach. I’m likely not drawing a gun on a gun pointed at me over a verbal dispute without something else on my side, like distance or cover. I’ve responded to hundreds of calls where someone has pulled a gun and not used it. Being behind the curve on a drawn gun is bad odds, and I feel my odds, in many cases, would be better by talking my way out of it. Deadly force would be justified, but many factors would have to be taken into account before I started sprinting and drawing.
 
TarDevil said:
Like I said, it's a wild world out there.
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It is a wild world, but it's not the wild west. Drawing on a drawn gun is a last ditch defense that has little chance of succeeding. It's the equivalent of what the Army teaches if you are caught in the kill zone of a near ambush, which is to attack into the ambush. It has little chance of success.

Take a verbal judo class or some other kind of deescalation training. Retreat...drawing is the last ditch option.
 
I recently started carrying pepper spray as a non lethal defense against agitators and crazy mask police who become violent.

There’s too many variables to say exactly what to do when drawn on. If the situation is tense, I would be watching hands and body language so I could have the quickest possible defense if a gun was being drawn on me.
 
Jeff White said:
It is a wild world, but it's not the wild west. Drawing on a drawn gun is a last ditch defense that has little chance of succeeding. It's the equivalent of what the Army teaches if you are caught in the kill zone of a near ambush, which is to attack into the ambush. It has little chance of success.

Take a verbal judo class or some other kind of deescalation training. Retreat...drawing is the last ditch option.
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If don’t attack you have no chance of success.
 
Kleanbore said:
Consider the kettle of fish in which you would be then.

I would prefer an approach that would dissuade or prevent him from shooting.
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Why would you place yourself at the bad guy’s mercy, and hope your dissuasion would prevail? The only way to effectively prevent him from shooting may be employment of deadly force. Good luck with choosing verbiage to prevent your demise.
 
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