So...what do you do? (Grocery Store Robbery)

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Beren

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http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/westmoreland/s_176294.html

"After failing to steal anything from a Delmont grocery store Friday night, an armed robber apparently hit pay dirt a few miles down the road in Apollo.

Police in both towns are seeking assistance in solving the robberies.

The first attempt at robbery took place around 7 p.m. when a tall, thin white man walked into Fatur's Foodland in Delmont, brandished a silver handgun and ordered about 30 customers and 10 employees to get on the floor.

According to Delmont police Chief Tim Klobucar, the robber unsuccessfully tried to get money out of registers.

Klobucar said an employee sneaked out a rear door and ran to a nearby pizza shop to call for help. Police were able to contact a manager, who was in an office watching the attempted robbery take place on video surveillance equipment.

The cameras showed the man going around the store, yelling at people to get down, even as new customers walked in, unaware of what was taking place.

T.J. Gabrie, 19, of Slickville, was working at the deli counter, slicing lunch meat, when a group of customers walked behind the counter, telling him that someone was robbing the store. After about a minute, he said, the man came up to the counter, yelling for someone to go up front and open the cash registers.

The customers told the robber that there was no one standing there who could do that. The man then ran back to the front of the store, Gabriel said.

Klobucar said the robber ran out and drove off in a Green Ford Focus driven by a woman.

Police at first thought the robber had taken hostages. Patrolman Chad Piontka was first to arrive and began taking customers out under the protection of a shield. Klobucar said neighbor brought out jackets and blankets for the customers who were stuck while the police investigated.

"That's what Delmont is about," he said. "Everybody pulls together."

About 40 minutes later, a man fitting the same description walked into Oliver's IGA in Apollo, pointed a gun at the clerks behind the lottery counter and demanded money in specific denominations.

Apollo police Chief Robin Davis said the robber told the clerks not to activate any alarms. The robber made off with an undetermined amount of money from cash registers and an office, she said.

Davis said that, after the man got the money, he ordered the clerks to get on the floor. By this time, customers who had been shopping in the back of store were moving toward the front.

Davis said the clerks had the presence of mind to tell the customers that the store was being robbed and that they should get on the floor.

The robber ran out of the store and sped off in a pickup truck.

Police said they believe it was the same man in both stores because witnesses' descriptions matched.

The robber is between 6-foot-3 and 6-foot-5 and was wearing a ski mask and hooded sweatshirt. One witness described him as "basketball tall."

Police also are looking for a white woman who was seen driving the Focus that left Fatur's.

In Apollo, the robber was seen leaving in a full-size, newer-model pickup truck with a short bed. Davis said it was possibly a silver or gold Chevy.

Delmont police have surveillance-tape footage. Apollo police have footprints and tire tracks.

No one was hurt in either incident, but managers at both stores said their employees were shaken up.

Police have asked that anyone with information call Delmont police at 724-468-8501 or Apollo police at 724-478-3091.

Sam Kusic can be reached at [email protected] or 724-626-3544."

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So, what's the proper way to handle such a situation? Obey the gun wielder's demands and get on the floor? Run? Draw and shoot when his attention is elsewhere?
 
My response: If his gun points anywhere NEAR me, I open the can...

I've never met a person that could draw and fire a gun faster than someone could pull the trigger. Personally i think youd be about 3 seconds too late.

Its a tricky situation. I mean you can shoot the guy when the whole thing starts or you can wait it out. Unfortunatly if you wait you may not get a chance to change your mind. And the decision has to be made in a split second. Im glad ive avoided having to make THAT decision so far.
 
If my gut tells me he is only after money I try to stay invisible. He is waveing around a gun/yelling threat is IMO still rather low. He starts pistol whipping folks/aiming at individuals it is much higher. etc.
IF I feel he is about to start shooting/etc THEN I consider if I can make the shot. IMO a perfect response is where he runs out with couple hundred and everyone walks away. (and Police catch him a block away)
 
Eastern PA here...............

CCW is no-hassle to get -------too bad no one in this episode had the opportunity.

Personally - the moment he pointed at anyone, Take-down.

Small town here - so I WOULD probably know most of the 30 other people in the store!!!
 
Yeah, I would shoot him as soon as he ordered me to the ground.

If he was just after the money and I was able to sneak down an aisle and stay out of his way, I would probably do so, but that's a different situation.
 
If I am in a store, and someone pulls out a gun then starts yelling demands, he will be shot on the spot without any hesitation whatsoever.

The same applies to a knife, crowbar or any object that is being used in a threatening manner.

Keep in mind however, that I live in Southwest Virginia - where people are still free to protect themselves (and others) from being hurt or killed.

TD
 
I honestly think for me, it would vary situation to situation.

If I'm in the store by myself and the guy is never yelling at me directly or making an extroverted movement towards me, I doubt I would attempt anything. If I'm in the store with the kids and he starts walking towards us and I tought there'd be any chance of a hostage being taken, I'd probably be more inclined to possibly do something if the opportunity presented itself.

Generally, I'd try to lay low and not attract attention to myself if no shots had been fired.
 
Here again, there's no "one size fits all".

If you're around the corner of an aisle and see the robber but he doesn't see you, you have lots of options.

If you're in his view and too far off to disarm him, that's another deal entirely.

If he orders you and others onto the floor, and you can drop down behind a counter, that leaves you the option of drawing and waiting.

I guess the mainest thing is to hold your cool and use your best judgement.

:), Art
 
Armed criminal + not currently pointing a weapon in my direction = shoot him while I have the chance.
 
Wait for a direct threat to human life then shoot bad guy. Head for the steaks and grab a few T-bones or maybe a couple of ribeyes. Buy a snickers bar cuz it'll be hours before I finish talking to the police.
 
Tall guy? Good, easier for a headshot.

I would likely do nothing untill he ordered us to the ground. I'm not going to the ground. If he gets my wallett and sees my (CA mandated) HSC, he'll shoot me.

"In fear of jeprody of self or others"

I won't be there long, because I'm not talking to the cops, at all, withought a lawyer.



All said and done, I hope I never have to face making this decision off the internet...
 
No way to predict if he would just pop an employee or a bystander for kicks. Verify that no confedeates are close to you, then put a few rounds in the perp's brain, watch for his friends, have someone call the cops.
 
Oleg...
...have someone call the cops...
Just to put some emphasis on what you've already said, but have someone other than you make the call to 911. That call will be recorded, and the words you make there might come back to haunt you in future legal wrangling. If there's no one else around to make the call, the advice I'm planning to use should I be in this situation has me saying "There has been a shooting at _______(fill in the address). Send the police and an ambulance." Then hang up. The tape gets nothing more.
 
I would agree with Oleg (as usual ;) ). There is no way of predicting anyone's actions, especialy someone with enough "character" to rob people at gunpoint. I would assume his intentions are for the worst and act accordingly. By the time he points a weapon at you it is too late to draw. Ideally he would be met with the wrong side of my barrel when he walks in with his weapon out.
 
I can't let him get my wallet, if he does....I'm dead. I would have to try to sneak up and "detain" him for investigation. I would not shoot, I would give him the opportunity to either run or surrender. If he makes a quick move...BANG....but it really would NOT be worth it. If I could stay out of sight and not engage and still see whats going on....then thats exactly what I would do. Its only money....and I'm real good at remembering details.

The rules change if my family is with me....I would probably have a 0% crap factor. Meaning that I will tell him to surrender once and only once. But you never know. Too many possible alternatives...however, if he said things like..."I'm gonna F#$*in KILL someone...then his intentions have been stated. I take a man with a gun at his word."
 
One thing about this senario is that your decision to shoot or not shoot has nothing whatever to do with money: your's or the store's.
It is about his threat of using deadly force. He walked in with a gun. This implies that he is going to use it.
In this case we know the outcome. But, if you were in the store at the time you have no way of knowing if he is going to shoot everyone in the store, a few people in the store, or nobody. All you have to go on is that he has threatened to shoot people and act accordingly.
As has been mentioned, once you lie down on the floor, you have given up. You are at his mercy. He is calling all the shots. He may kill you, or he may not; you don't know.
 
I'm young(And thus slighty prone to being... a little head-strong) and I do not think that giving a criminal control over a situation is a good idea(Unless the situation dictates otherwise). I would likely take him down if possible, watch him and attempt to make it possible if not. When s/he threatens others or myself with a weapon, it is not about the money. It's about my life or the lives of others.
 
quote,
"And why wasn't the cowardly manager CALLING THE POLICE?!?!?"

What makes you think he was a coward and how do you know that he wasn't calling the police or had not already hit an alarm? Yes, it wasn't in the newspaper, but that didn't mean he didn't do it.

Also, why was the manager a coward? What is it in self defense doctrine that says a person, even a store manager, should knowingly walk into the middle of a robbery? Walking into a robbery is a really dumb thing to do, especially for a person such as a store manager who probably isn't an equipped SWAT officer with a team doing the job. Had the manager been reported to walk into the robbery, we would have been chatting about how stupid he was.

-------------------------
quote,
I think the real threat is when he orders everyone to get on the floor.

No, the real threat comes when the robber produces a gun. Once out, then he can start shooting. Once the gun is out, then the situation threatening to life.
 
For some reason....Robbers don't like to shoot standing victims...they are much more likely to shoot either running away OR at a victim on the floor. They are true to form when it comes to cowardice.
 
I've met and seen folks draw and shoot successfully against a drawn gun in FOF. Those who say it can't be done, need to get off the Internet and into drawing. In fact. many civilian gun fights have the civilian drawing against a gun and carrying the day.

If there is a robbery, I save myself and family. Everyone else can call GWB from the hospital and tell him to support the 2nd.
 
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