Canted reticle question

No way to know that for sure, I would not make that assumption. All you can do is mount it and try it out.My thought is that it will not move it as you assume.

If you mount with the reticle canted, it will be exceptionally annoying to zero the optic.

Call Bushnell, odds are they will replace the optic. They don’t care about original receipt.

It’s funny I just had the same thing happen during a weekend shooting trip. I picked up my son’s 10/22 that has an old bushnell banner fixed power scope. I picked it up and the crosshairs had turned so they looked like a railroad crossing sign. I shook it a little and they moved.

I planned on tossing it but being the cheapo that I am, I took it off and put it on a workbench with a few other projects. Tonight while I was on dinner break I read that often on these simple scopes this can be fixed be removing the eye piece and gluing or epoxying the reticle back in place.

I haven’t had time to try it yet but I’m going to.

I’ll give this bit of advice. When looking to a manufacturer for warranty, remember this: “The squeakiest wheel gets the oil.”

To me, it depends on if you want to be externally annoyed or internally annoyed. Turrets square gives you a canted crosshair but external aesthetics; crosshair squared gives you the opposite. In any scope, what counts is the crosshair center aligned with your target at a given range - the intersection is all that counts. I would think that there is a pattern to your crosshair center movement and that you will be able to sight the firearm with a small learning curve regardless of how you mount it. It should function but function in a non-traditional manner. Now if more than the crosshair is malfunctioning, then who knows what will happen when the turrets are adjusted.

gunsrfun1 said:

My friend gave me a new (old stock) Simmons 2x scope, that has a seriously canted reticle (probably around 20-25 degrees). Another great example of Chinese quality control. I mean, if there was still a sales receipt with it, I would imply return it. But it was free and it's several years old, so be it.
I am considering mounting this on a .357 lever action that I use mainly for fun, at ranges no more than 50 yards or so. Maximum ever would be 100 yards. And I'll mostly be shooting .38+P out of it.
So, I want to be sure I have this right: If I mount it with the reticles "squared" (that is, at the proper 90 degree angles), then the turrets will obviously be canted a bit. But that won't matter, right? Any adjustments to the turrets will still move the POI properly in windage and elevation, right?
Therefore, assuming the rest of the scope was properly assembled, this strikes me more as a "cosmetics" issue than anything else.
Am I correct, or am I missing something?
Thanks

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Set up as you suggest means the reticle will move point of impact in elevation and wind each time an adjustment is made, regardless of which turret is turned.

This is more work to salvage a cheap scope than it's worth.

That's what trash cans are for; to get rid of things that you don't want to keep.

gunsrfun1 said:

Thanks both. Just to clarify: I would mount it with the reticle straight up-down, left-right. Only the turrets would be canted.

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No confusion here.

The problem I implied, albeit too briefly apparently, is that if your reticle is turned in the erector tube as you described, then you will have both elevation AND windage adjustment happening when you turn either knob. If it is truly 45 degrees rotated, both knobs will move the reticle both horizontally AND vertically the same amount with every click. It can be done, but you’ll be stuck taking one step forward and half a step back, and dialing both turrets to make every adjustment.

I have had Bushnell replace 2 Simmons optics which were bought before the buyout. Both of which were straight up my fault - one was a spotting scope which I turned too hard against the stop and stripped the zoom threads, the other was a scope which was crushed when the rifle tipped off of a bench and landed on it. Bushnell bought the Simmons line, so they bought the warranties - not to mention, Bushnell does a great job at customer service. You might not get the same model back if it is no longer produced, but odds are, you’ll have a replacement within a week. Their answer is almost always “yes,” but if you don’t ask, you force the answer to be “no.” And I agree, if you’re unwilling to make a simple phone call or send an email to get it repaired/replaced, then limping along with malfunctioning turrets, inducing movement in both directions, is a waste of time and energy.

With the reticle canted, imagine a second reticle that is plumb. Twisting the knobs will move the intersection of the crosshairs along those imaginary lines. So if you mount it with the reticle plumb and the knobs at an angle, any adjustments will be BOTH lateral AND vertical. Zeroing that scope will be frustrating.

Is a do-it-yourself repair outside the realm of possibility? There must be reference materials online on how to disassemble a scope. Since you got it free, what do you have to lose?

AlexanderA said:

Is a do-it-yourself repair outside the realm of possibility?

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It’s not impossible, but it’s largely infeasible for most people to undertake. The inert, dry gas purge during reassembly is a problem most people aren’t capable of solving at home, and certainly not for less than the cost of a replacement Simmons optic.

Disassembling the scope and then removing the Reticle lens from the erector tube, which in this case is likely a taped wire reticle - meaning the owner will likely damage the wire reticle adhesive with whatever means they use to free the lens from the tube (that which dissolved one adhesive will dissolve the other). And of course, the same will damage/dissolve any coatings present, potentially also damaging the scope finish, or even the lens itself, depending upon the material and solvents used.

AlexanderA said:

There must be reference materials online on how to disassemble a scope.

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There is, but there isn’t. Lots of folks know how optics are designed and built, but not many folks are offering DIY advise, simply because it’s not an easy task to accomplish successfully, as mentioned above. Considering most optics have had great manufacturer warranties and repair service for a long, long time, it’s simply never been worthwhile for folks to attempt DIY repairs.

AlexanderA said:

Since you got it free, what do you have to lose?

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He got it for free, but under warranty, it remains to have value. They’ll repair or replace it - it’s really that simple. It’s actually quite disappointing we’re talking about it, since the OP should have contacted Bushnell first, rather than starting a thread online. If they had rejected the repair/replace warranty claim, then sure, let’s call it junk with no value, and nothing to lose. But that’s not where we are - it’s a warranty-able product, such it potentially has value of 50-100% the price of a new scope. Tearing it apart at home can turn it into worthless junk, whereas sending it back can turn it into a brand new scope, or at least a functional used scope. Easy calculus for me.

Got a new Bushnell that had the same issue and sent it back to Bushnell and they made it right....took 4 weeks but now it's true and tracks stright-
It's your call but I wouldn't put a canted scope on and try and deal with the issues....I would send it back to factory or buy another scope.

NEVER open an optical device! All decent optics are filled with inert gas, and once that is allowed to escape, they will fill with moisture-laden ambient air, which will condense as the temperatures change and deposit moisture on the optical surfaces.

Unless you purge it with dry Carbon Dioxide from a can of Keyboard Air, in a bag as you final assemble it. But most likely the seals will be damaged as they’ve been thread bitten twice and leak gas anyway.

Hmm, spend time wrecking a scope, or exchange it for an equal, brand new model made with technology fifteen years more advanced?
I think I’d have to go with @Varminterror on this one.
Call them up, be nice, explain the whole thing and see what happens.


If they say “No”, then you can ruin it...

With the turrets canted, the impact will change both directions with each move or either turret. You could measure the number of degrees it is out of plumb and do a vector solution to predict how much it will change in each direction or just monkey with it till it hits where you are looking.

Varminterror said:

Tearing it apart at home can turn it into worthless junk, whereas sending it back can turn it into a brand new scope, or at least a functional used scope. Easy calculus for me

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This^^^^^

I have a friend that had a Bushnell scope that went bad. He was going to junk it. I suggested that he return it for warranty repair. Got a new, upgraded scope in return.

I would recommend mounting it with the turrets leveled. If the reticle is canted, most likely something is loose inside the scope. That means it will continue to move under recoil. The crosshair won't stay level.

Mounting the turrets level also makes it easier to zero and adjust.

I think the disc with the reticle is loose. I doubt if the scope was assembled with the reticle canted. So..I would expect the scope to move and drift POI. Otherwise, if the reticle is solid in the canted position, once you get it sighted in using either plan above it should work. Me, I would send it to the manafacture or just toss it. I can see spending more on ammo to sight it in and keep a check on it than a new scope might cost.

I agree, fix it or toss it.

But if you had to sight it in, use the one-shot method. That is, shoot one shot and then move the cross hairs to the impact while the rifle is held in place. Done.

In about 1962 my dad purchased a Weaver 3X El Paso steel scope. It was noted shortly after that the reticle was slightly canted. Well, in those days there was no internet and things were not so simple. The scope worked and has continued to work just fine for some 58 years and now sits proudly atop my beautiful Winchester 9422M XTR for about the last two decades or more. I just set the crosshairs to align properly with the barrel/gun and if somebody notices my caps are not quite completely square I would tell'em to mind to their beeswax! My OCD sometimes frets over it and then I get over it and just shoot the rifle. This one has the fine crosshairs and I have been thinking to waste some money on it and have a heavier reticle installed and maybe made straight, my OCD trying to justify itself. Think I could send it in under warranty?

3Crows said:

In about 1962 my dad purchased a Weaver 3X El Paso steel scope. It was noted shortly after that the reticle was slightly canted. Well, in those days there was no internet and things were not so simple. The scope worked and has continued to work just fine for some 58 years and now sits proudly atop my beautiful Winchester 9422M XTR for about the last two decades or more. I just set the crosshairs to align properly with the barrel/gun and if somebody notices my caps are not quite completely square I would tell'em to mind to their beeswax! My OCD sometimes frets over it and then I get over it and just shoot the rifle. This one has the fine crosshairs and I have been thinking to waste some money on it and have a heavier reticle installed and maybe made straight, my OCD trying to justify itself. Think I could send it in under warranty?

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All you can do is ask..

https://www.weaveroptics.com/contactus

Vern Humphrey said:

NEVER open an optical device! All decent optics are filled with inert gas, and once that is allowed to escape, they will fill with moisture-laden ambient air, which will condense as the temperatures change and deposit moisture on the optical surfaces.

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One of my hobbies is collecting and repairing classic cameras, and I can tell you that the lenses are not filled with inert gas. One of the big problems in old cameras is mold inside the lenses, and if it's too bad it can ruin the coatings, or even etch the glass. Yet, mold can often be cleaned by careful disassembly before it does much damage.

I wonder if the importance of inert gas inside rifle scopes is overrated. This reminds me of some tire shops filling new tires with nitrogen, and marking them with green valve caps. This is basically just a marketing gimmick.

AlexanderA said:

One of my hobbies is collecting and repairing classic cameras, and I can tell you that the lenses are not filled with inert gas. One of the big problems in old cameras is mold inside the lenses, and if it's too bad it can ruin the coatings, or even etch the glass. Yet, mold can often be cleaned by careful disassembly before it does much damage.

I wonder if the importance of inert gas inside rifle scopes is overrated. This reminds me of some tire shops filling new tires with nitrogen, and marking them with green valve caps. This is basically just a marketing gimmick.

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I wasn't referring to cameras -- I meant binoculars, rifle scopes and so on.

Believe me, filling optical instruments with inert gas is not overrated or a marketing gimmick. Let the gas out of your $1,000 pair of binoculars, hike through the Rockies elk hunting, then come into the tent with the stove going and see what happens.