You Have No Idea Who You're Dealing With

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Spending some time around a MMA or BJJ gym quickly reinforces the idea to not judge a book by the cover.

That overweight 50 something may be a blackbelt that can use his weight to crush the life out of your soul, the 130# girl may take your arm home, and the jacked up scary looking guy has no cardio or technique and is a push over.
 
From the moment I first got my CCW permit 30 years ago I've found it very calming to be carrying. Any confrontation can be life-or-death in the real world but being armed really drives that home. Maybe unarmed you could feel like you "had something to prove" but when you know you have the power to end a life all the monkey behavior instantly feels trivial. You can't afford to start stuff when you're armed.
 
Phaedrus/69 said:
we also have to bear in mind that the attitude of "Don't make trouble and there won't be any trouble" can also get you hurt. Don't poke the bear, that's common sense. But don't assume just 'cause you didn't poke the bear, the bear will leave you alone.
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The first of those doe not follow from the second.
 
Sometimes I have to remind myself when someone does something that gets stuck in my craw; that I cannot entertain a confrontation as a person concealed carrying. I do a lot of shaking of my head (inside my head) nowadays.

...cooler heads will prevail.
 
bratch said:
Spending some time around a MMA or BJJ gym quickly reinforces the idea to not judge a book by the cover.

That overweight 50 something may be a blackbelt that can use his weight to crush the life out of your soul, the 130# girl may take your arm home, and the jacked up scary looking guy has no cardio or technique and is a push over.
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Our local Krav Maga chief has the appearance of the stereotypical middle-aged Jewish guy. Balding, paunchy, pasty white, wears a fanny pack, and likes to wear black socks with flip-flops. If I was a criminal, he'd probably look to me like easy prey. He also fought several wars for Israel, has killed his enemies in a variety of different ways, and can dismantle skilled opponents on the mat while giving a calm description of his methods and thinking. And yes, there's a Glock in the fanny pack.


Which is a long-winded way of agreeing with you completely.
 
As an Airman at Edwards AFB, CA, (1970) I ventured out to the surrounding California country side. One night my buddy and I ended up in the mining community of Borax. It was a family restaurant with an attached bar and pool hall. You would think these would be conservative, military supporting peoples, but no-o-o-o-o. Two guys from the bar spied us eating in the restaurant with our short haircuts and decided to pick on us. The end result is our meal was free and we fled out the back door. In the process I think I busted one of the miners noses when I slammed the door in his face.

It taught me never to try and guess who my friends are, or who might or might not support me in a fight.
 
alfsauve said:
As an Airman at Edwards AFB, CA, (1970) I ventured out to the surrounding California country side. One night my buddy and I ended up in the mining community of Borax. It was a family restaurant with an attached bar and pool hall. You would think these would be conservative, military supporting peoples, but no-o-o-o-o. Two guys from the bar spied us eating in the restaurant with our short haircuts and decided to pick on us. The end result is our meal was free and we fled out the back door. In the process I think I busted one of the miners noses when I slammed the door in his face.

It taught me never to try and guess who my friends are, or who might or might not support me in a fight.
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When my unit returned to Fort Carson from NTC the bus stopped at Circus Circus for lunch.

I was in a pizza restaurant in the basement with three other soldiers in my unit (2 females) when I noticed some locals giving us the eye. I told my companions to get ready and told the ladies that if anything popped off they were to run.

At that point the locals came over and surrounded our table. I was just getting ready to hit the guy behind me when he reached over my shoulder and picked up the check. They said "Thanks for your service, we're covering your meal." and walked away.
 
MEHavey said:
Such guys prone to unreasoned violence should take care at what they might provoke in retaliation.
Never frighten a little man.
He'll kill you.
LL
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He wanted the fight. He had been wronged (somehow) and his intent was not to make the guy break down and cry, he wanted the fight. Blind rage. Zero fear. It took several minutes for him to snap out of it and I don't know what would have made him stop sooner other than a cns disruption.

He went on to be an old man with no more incidents and no criminal record of ant kind.

The crying boyfriend did not deserve such a threat but as the thread title reads, he had know idea who he was dealing (provoking) with. He learned the lesson this thread and the OP is warning about.
 
alfsauve said:
As an Airman at Edwards AFB, CA, (1970) I ventured out to the surrounding California country side. One night my buddy and I ended up in the mining community of Borax. It was a family restaurant with an attached bar and pool hall. You would think these would be conservative, military supporting peoples, but no-o-o-o-o. Two guys from the bar spied us eating in the restaurant with our short haircuts and decided to pick on us. The end result is our meal was free and we fled out the back door. In the process I think I busted one of the miners noses when I slammed the door in his face.

It taught me never to try and guess who my friends are, or who might or might not support me in a fight.
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Trunk Monkey said:
When my unit returned to Fort Carson from NTC the bus stopped at Circus Circus for lunch.

I was in a pizza restaurant in the basement with three other soldiers in my unit (2 females) when I noticed some locals giving us the eye. I told my companions to get ready and told the ladies that if anything popped off they were to run.

At that point the locals came over and surrounded our table. I was just getting ready to hit the guy behind me when he reached over my shoulder and picked up the check. They said "Thanks for your service, we're covering your meal." and walked away.
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Been there done that, on both sides.

Military service was not as embraced back in the 70’s and 80’s. First Gulf War started to change the tide and 9-11 definitely made being a GI in public much more accepted.

I entered active duty in 1982, and was never “thanked for my service” by a stranger until after 2001. You learn to live and interact around “unfriendly” communities who see you as threat to their jobs, bars, women, etc. I learned to be aware but as unthreatening as possible. Walk when you can...run when you should, and if you gotta fight...fight to win keeping in mind you only need to stop the threat.

I never carried a gun back then. May have had one in the truck, but never on my person.
 
I knew a guy in high school that later owned a bar in the small town that we grew up in. When he killed the first guy in his bar everyone was o.k., it's self defense. When he killed the second the cops wanted him in jail and the same when he killed the third guy but each time it was ruled self defense. He later moved to Virginia and I saw him years ago at a class reunion. In thinking about him I wonder how could you live with yourself in killing three human beings, is owning a bar, or any business, that important? I just don't understand that type of mentality.
 
Milt1 said:
I knew a guy in high school that later owned a bar in the small town that we grew up in. When he killed the first guy in his bar everyone was o.k., it's self defense. When he killed the second the cops wanted him in jail and the same when he killed the third guy but each time it was ruled self defense. He later moved to Virginia and I saw him years ago at a class reunion. In thinking about him I wonder how could you live with yourself in killing three human beings, is owning a bar, or any business, that important? I just don't understand that type of mentality.
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I think the circumstances are important. If he killed three people and was acquitted each time I'm going to guess it really was legitimate self defense. If it was forced upon me I'd much rather the other guy die than me.
 
I'm not sure there's really even a lot more to add to this topic.

To summarize my thoughts on it, it's been my experience that there are a lot of very angry and entitled people out there who have been taught their entire life that they're the center of their own universe and that if it's right for them it's right. There are also a bunch of people out there who have been taught that anger is a VERY effective means of getting what they want. Add to that the stress people are feeling over the Rona and it's a recipe for trouble.

I'm not suggesting that we "live in fear" but I'm as cautious around unknown humans as I am around an unknown wild animal. I also try to remember that it can happen to me.

The bottom line is it's a weird world out there and you need to be cautious.
 
bratch said:
Spending some time around a MMA or BJJ gym quickly reinforces the idea to not judge a book by the cover.

That overweight 50 something may be a blackbelt that can use his weight to crush the life out of your soul, the 130# girl may take your arm home, and the jacked up scary looking guy has no cardio or technique and is a push over.
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I MMA 3 nights a week. I am 53, and I do pretty good for myself against people who are less than 1/2 my age. That "don't judge a book by its cover" lesson is learned, shared, and re-enforced among all on a daily basis there. I have also been knocked out by a less experienced 17 year old (tagged on the jaw by a punch I didn't see coming and walked into) and a 18 year old girl cracked one of my ribs (I didn't account for or respect her superior flexibility, so her high body kick looked like a low leg kick coming in- I checked the wrong kick and paid the price). And yes, the big guys with the "beach muscles" often run out of gas in a hurry.
 
Avoidance can be avoidance of a place where risk increases, avoidance of attracting interest, avoidance of people we know are of greater risk, or avoidance of creating a situation of greater risk. Being civil, not friendly, to others can help avoid confrontations that you have to try to deescalate or escape to avoid it turning physical.

When I traveled internationally I made a point of trying to look and move like the majority of the people around me. I wanted to blend in to minimize my chance of being singled out, to be just another fish in the school. I was civil in the way locals were civil to minimize the chance of being singled out. I consciously avoided conflict to keep from having to deal with it.
 
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Reminds me of the video I saw a couple years back of a skinny dude beating up 2 or 3 officers in an elevator. He may have been slight of build but he was obviously an experienced scrapper. Never judge by appearances.

Another tiny dude who kicked butt:

 
Let's keep in mind that if one does anything to put oneself into the position of being an initial aggressor, one is not innocent in the eye of the law, and one may not be able to convincingly regain innocence

That would negate aa legal defense of self defense.

So, there is more to this than the idea that someone may be tougher than he might appear.

Even if he proves not to be, one risks a high likelihood of being convicted of a crime of violence if one fails in that regard.

Deescalation, avoidance, and even if not legally required, escape, are the first resort for someone who has someway failed to avoid the wrong places.
 
smart mouths have gotten a lot worse in my opinion. Back in the day you did tend to keep your mouth shut more because there was less chance of being prosecuted for assault. People took their licks and part of that package was you couldnt play victim, you were the 'guy who lost' aka, in other words you got two beatings, the physical one and the social shaming aspect. And the second was a better deterrant than the first too.
 
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When I was a kid I liked to roll around in the gravel. Had a mouth on me too. Got the beating of my life in BITS from a former Chicago cop and one of his buddies who didn't care for it. Took a while for the swelling and bruised ears to heal. That was a real lesson.

I've changed over the years. Learned to keep it shut and also to keep my eyes open.
 
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