How badly did I try to kill myself?
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jebova2301
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If you think those are remotely flat, you would probably have a heart attack if you saw what comes out of my desert eagle. Doesn't matter if I am on the low end of the load data or the high end, they all come out looking like this. This one is at 0.5 grains above the start load.
edwardware
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Mr_Flintstone
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According to what I’ve read, SAAMI puts a max of 37,000 C.U.P. or 35,000 PSI on 8x57. C.I.P. countries put a max of 55,114 PSI on the 8x57. Hodgdon and most other load manuals kinda split the difference between the two.
Allen One1
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In my limited experience the rifle can tell you when you are too hot. You said that the rifle kicked like crazy and to me that may be the rifle talking to you. If you think the rifle is shooting smoother at a lesser load I would drop back a little.
AJC1
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Kicked like crazy is a subjective analysis. I can load my 45/70 in spec and send most to the ER.
Allen One1
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But do you want to run it like that? It comes down to knowing your gun and how it is "supposed" to feel when it shoots good. It is very subjective.
Demi-human
maybe likes firearms a little bit…
As an aside, mine look nearly identical all the way to my conservative maximum from below start.
Like if they just moved the ejector a bit it wouldn’t try to shear a hole through the corner of the primer at unlock.
I know that a Desert Eagle doesn’t have to be run hot, as I went lower and lower to prevent it, to no avail. Even though the pistol worked the whole time.
The 50A.E. is rated at 36,000psi maximum, well below when a primer is alleged to yield to pressure. So not always is the culprit too much powder.
I had thought of getting longer cases to see if the problem was excess head space, but brass is expensive enough.
Some that pick them up and see them so flat and marvel.
I just tell them, “Yup. It is a magnum...”
Demi-human
maybe likes firearms a little bit…
In fact, here is some I shot with my son today...
He likes the fire.
He likes the fire.
Captcurt
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Pressure isn't the only one thing that will flatten primers. If the headspace is out a little or if you set the shoulder back a little too far it can sometimes flatten them.
edwardware
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You're correct, and it's little known enough to be worth explaining.
If headspace is exceptionally excessive, the primer can back out so much that it's essentially unsupported and it will mushroom out. When the cartridge head reseats onto the mushroomed primer, it flattens the head out into the pocket chamfer and appears similar to a really excessive over pressure. It tends to be inconsistent, shows incipient head separation, and doesn't show any other signs of high pressure.
Nature Boy
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me either
bdb242
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"Carbon?" around the case neck is usually a powder combustion residue, not a blow back condition As long as it does not go past the neck onto the shoulder. I have a couple of powders that leave some residue on the necks and other powders leave none at all with the same bullet, primer, neck tension and almost identical speeds. I noticed this on a custom 6/284 while working up loads with 105gr Berger match bullets and H1000, 7828, RL 22, and a couple more powders. Primer on the middle case looked perfectly normal to me.
Yea, me either, although I would like a better pic.
This might concern me, but then again, the factory ammo may be mild compared to a full load from wherever you got it.
Where did the data come from?
Poper
Member
IMHO, not at all. If the bolt face is not shaving brass from the case head and/or the bolt is not sticky on opening (usually both), and there is still a radius to be seen on the primer cup, you are in all likely hood, not in imminent danger of blowing yourself up.
I had a friend a few years back that obliterated his Tikka in .25-06 with a .308 round. The barrel went 35 yards down range and the receiver exploded into a dozen pieces shattering the stock and the polymer magazine. He received a tiny cut on the end of his nose that bled like crazy and a case of the shakes that settled down after 30 minutes or so.
The moral to that story is never have ammunition for two different guns on the bench at the same time.
EVER!
AJC1
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That's the brain tester of the day who's load data is that and how old is the book. That's not to say old books are bad because I love my Lyman 45th eddition
sparkyv
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Flattened primers? What flattened primers?
frankmako
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buy a chronograph and work up your loads.
Poper
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That would definitely get a body's attention!!!
After seeing the conflicting data with the Nosler (38.0-42.0) and Speer (46.0-50.0) manuals, I think I would be checking the Hodgdon manual, the Lyman manual and and one or two others.
denton
Member
Good advice. Muzzle velocity is a very good indicator of pressure.
Can’t find my physical reloading book atm, but hogden lists 43.7 gr h335 at 36,000 cup max
Speer says 46 max at 2525 FPS no pressure given
I may have gotten slightly mixed up remembering max grain charge with 4064....
Either way the rifle liked that load. My shoulder did not....
Either way this isn’t an everyday load, this is a few times this year shooting at deer load. Once powder, primer, and bullets are freely available I’ll go to 4064 with either Sierra matchkings or Hornady 196 match bullets for target shooting, and either Barnes 160 ttsx or 180 tsx for hunting.
this year I have to go with what I can get. I had 335 on hand, had 4064 but not enough to develop a load and load rounds to hunt with.
And unfortunately I think the election will make things worse no matter which way it goes.
Trump wins the libs will buy even more to arm themselves. Trump loses we’ll be buying what we can before the Democrats ban it. Either way the shortage will continue or even get worse...
i doubt we will see normal supply for at least 6 months to a year....
Speer says 46 max at 2525 FPS no pressure given
I may have gotten slightly mixed up remembering max grain charge with 4064....
Either way the rifle liked that load. My shoulder did not....
Either way this isn’t an everyday load, this is a few times this year shooting at deer load. Once powder, primer, and bullets are freely available I’ll go to 4064 with either Sierra matchkings or Hornady 196 match bullets for target shooting, and either Barnes 160 ttsx or 180 tsx for hunting.
this year I have to go with what I can get. I had 335 on hand, had 4064 but not enough to develop a load and load rounds to hunt with.
And unfortunately I think the election will make things worse no matter which way it goes.
Trump wins the libs will buy even more to arm themselves. Trump loses we’ll be buying what we can before the Democrats ban it. Either way the shortage will continue or even get worse...
i doubt we will see normal supply for at least 6 months to a year....
jmorris
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I imagine what you are reading into the data and what the OP found in his research are similar, why I asked where he got his data for the 180 grain loads.
Your 46-50 gn observation is for their 150 grain bullets. Max of 46 with 170 grain bullets, the Nosler data is for a heavier (200 gn bullet), thus the even lighter charge weights.
If you are trying to compare load data, one needs to look at more than just powder and charge. Bullet weight and construction are quite important as well.
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I’ve seen similar from factory 5.56 loads. Had one from that box completely unseat the primer and it got jammed in the barrel extension... haven’t bought that brand since...
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